So, you want the perfect storm...?

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[[RWP]DJM]

DJM, yes that's true enough on paper. But I consider every file on my system as my property, simply because nobody can prevent me from changing them, deleting them or whatever.

But I will never of course distribute licenced or copyrighted software or try to make money from it, I'm keeping it on my own system only.
 

Believe it or not, the End-User Licence Agreement (EULA) can go as far as revoking your licence key for misuse of the owners product, or even removing the product from your premises (it has happened, so I'm told).  Bearing this in mind, does anyone really want to alter the product without the 'express written permission of the owners', I for one wouldn't like to lose any of my software licences or end up in a court case for breach of that licence

It's not just software either, DVD's, Books, CD's.....the list goes on

To read more on a 'Software' EULA, click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA)

Regards.

DJM.

[Stuart2007]

But in fairness to Vstep, Wout made a ost (I'll go look for it when I have chance) saying that vstep had decided NOT to remove posts relating to un-authorised modifications, but he issued a strong warning.
It was about the wave heights, if I remember correctly.

Problem is, people failed to consider that there might be a very good reason WHY waves were restricted to 4m.

Likewise, if it was designed to modify something, vstep would likely have made it possible to do in a menu system.

Stu

[Ship Sim]

Id like to do the wave thing but I am not going to. Unless Vstep gives me premission. But the fild is not protected.

[AlexKall]

Id like to do the wave thing but I am not going to. Unless Vstep gives me premission. But the fild is not protected.

Same here 

[Fredriksen]

Id like to do the wave thing but I am not going to. Unless Vstep gives me premission. But the fild is not protected.

I agree 

[Parsec]

Wow, this really blew me away... 

Those giant waves are scaringly realistic, and probably better than the physics programmed by major movie SFX companies.

Pretty, pretty, pretty please, VSTEP, make it possible and legal to create waves like these!!! 

[Mr-Kgbow]

lol i did it to 50 and the game crashed but i still got a few cheap lafs lmao

[Maelmoor]

World of Warcraft is the most played game in the world and supports modding, strategy games like Heroes of Might & Magic supports modding, simulators as Flight Simulator supports modding, roleplaying games like Neverwinter Nights do so and so on...

Where is the problem? The virus example was ridiculous, people mostly get viruses from friends who have infected computer/mails, is that a reason not to read mail from friends?

As long as people are aware modding files makes the game non-supported, to work against modding is a mistake , didn't thought there were any companies doing so today, is this your personal opinion DJM or is it an official policy of VStep?

[andy_m]

World of Warcraft is the most played game in the world and supports modding, strategy games like Heroes of Might & Magic supports modding, simulators as Flight Simulator supports modding, roleplaying games like Neverwinter Nights do so and so on...

Where is the problem? The virus example was ridiculous, people mostly get viruses from friends who have infected computer/mails, is that a reason not to read mail from friends?

As long as people are aware modding files makes the game non-supported, to work against modding is a mistake , didn't thought there were any companies doing so today, is this your personal opinion DJM or is it an official policy of VStep?

I agree totally mate.
As long as the modding side of the community is regulated and qc'd (quality controlled) properly by VSTEP, or sensible individuals to do so on their behalf, then there shouldnt really be a problem.
For instance I play WoW and use a few third party mods, mods that Blizzard have allowed and encourage, and so far have had no problems with either the game or my system.
Mods that improve or change visuals (skins, vehicles, weather, UI etc) are perfectly fine as long as they stay with in the guidlelines laid down by the developer. Any breach of this is dealt with quickly and strongly and in some cases legal action could be taken.
At the end of the day people breaching the EULA and creating code breaking/changing mods face a lawsuit and 9 times out of 10 get caught.
FlightSim benefits greatly from mods, look at how many third party (and most of the time free) aircraft, scenery files etc you can download from various sites, thousands!
Imagine the potential that holds for SS....

Regards,
Andy

[shipfan55]

lol i did it to 50 and the game crashed but i still got a few cheap lafs lmao

can you post a pic of it,one close up in small boat and one in the titanic zoomed out cause it must  be so deadly !~

[[RWP]DJM]

World of Warcraft is the most played game in the world and supports modding, strategy games like Heroes of Might & Magic supports modding, simulators as Flight Simulator supports modding, roleplaying games like Neverwinter Nights do so and so on...

Where is the problem? The virus example was ridiculous, people mostly get viruses from friends who have infected computer/mails, is that a reason not to read mail from friends?

As long as people are aware modding files makes the game non-supported, to work against modding is a mistake , didn't thought there were any companies doing so today, is this your personal opinion DJM or is it an official policy of VStep?

As stated in my post regarding the virus issue

I would like to offer my personal opinion here

I am just an average gamer like many of us on the forums, so I too have opinions on what I do and don't like in certain games.  Modding is not a big thing for me, like I said previously, I tried it and got stung.

It is my own personal opinion though, nothing more than that

I know many people who almost 'rely' on modding to improve their game experience and add that little 'something extra', I am the kind of person who prefers to play games 'as is' without modifications of any kind, unless they are official (expansion packs etc.)

Regards.

DJM.

[Stuart2007]

Personally, I like the idea of being able to tweak programmes- NO programmer will ever manage to make a game that no one will want to tweak- there are too many variables.

Nevertheless, reverse engineering is not allowed under any eula. This is dragging on and getting very boring indeed.

Wout made a post, which summarised was: Vstep isn't going to stop you modifying the waves as long as you don't do it commercially and be aware that you are invalidating your licence agreement. Vstep could have deleted this topic, banned users etc etc. They haven't but just be aware that they are not condoning the actions.

However, I think this does show a strength of feeling that maybe Vstep will look into at a later date. So I suppose this argument has served a purpose after all.

Stu

[Hudizzle]

I saw a video on Youtube showing how to edit that file for bigger waves. I think it was in Spanish.
Either way, seems like lots of people have picked up on this.
Oh well..
If it can be done, people will do it   

I kinda think those waves look unrealistic. Just because it lacks "randomization". So, really, it may be for the best if VSTEP were to make big waves like that. They could make them better and more refined.
But, it's obvious that some want the mother of all waves. just adds to the excitement and challenge.

[Stuart2007]

I agree totally. But I wonder if there is a good reason why bigger waves aren't included in the game.

Stu

[Subwolf]

Modding is helping the developers making a better game, one good example is Silent Hunter 3. The developer Ubisoft had no problems with modding which resulted in a huge freeware package made by the community to improve the game. It became ten times better and way more realistic.

Too bad if this isn't allowed with SS08, I think we will loose a lot of improvements because of that.

 

[Stuart2007]

How did that work? Was it add ons, ike MSFS and MSTS or was it actual changes to the coding of the main programme?

[Hudizzle]

Ohh, I remember that add-on! I downloaded it sometime back. It was cool!

It was kinda like an expansion of a sorts. It used an installer, so it was quick and easy to install. It added ships and changed textures and stuff. It probably replaced certain files. Also, it changed the main menu a bit. added new music and a different video that played on it. And a different color for the screen, too.

It's possible that they probably did similar things in the mod (or unofficial expansion) that would be much like what some people have done with SS08. Changing certain parameters, that sort of thing.

I know I've fooled around with several games myself. Airport tycoon, for one. Changed a file so that objects would be available earlier. I messed around with mall tycoon, did a similar thing. Changed price and time parameters for research of objects.
Oh, and Flight simulator X! There's a trick where you can edit a couple parameters in a scenery file for autogen, and it will make less trees show up. Also a tweak for some other file.

I guess most of us have violated EULAs 

But, as I said, if it can be done, people will do it. But, why try to tell them they can't?
Yes, the EULA is a legal type document/license, but, it's certainly not law. It's not law because there is no effective way to enforce it. Nobody reads them (except for maybe a couple peeps here and there, and lawyers), everybody clicks yes. They try to get you to read them, but all you have to do is scroll down. And if they make it so that you have to wait 10 minutes before clicking yes, they'll either complain, or go do something else until it's done.
I know I never read em', haha.

Well I'm sure this is going nowhere, really, so I'll stop typing now. Not so much because I might make myself look like an idiot by saying something stupid, but also because my 'H' key is missing (because of the cat), and I have a half inch piece of a colored pencil in the hole where the key once was, with tape over it, and it won't stay in... 

[Subwolf]

How did that work? Was it add ons, ike MSFS and MSTS or was it actual changes to the coding of the main programme?

Both, the users requested the source codes and Ubisoft agreed. It was a great cooperation between the company and the player community through the game forum subsim.com.

Ubisoft later released Silent hunter 4, turns out to be a huge success because of the quality of version 3 after modding and their great community support.

I wish VSTEP could do the same

[pmillett22]

But, as I said, if it can be done, people will do it. But, why try to tell them they can't?
Yes, the EULA is a legal type document/license, but, it's certainly not law. It's not law because there is no effective way to enforce it. Nobody reads them (except for maybe a couple peeps here and there, and lawyers), everybody clicks yes. They try to get you to read them, but all you have to do is scroll down. And if they make it so that you have to wait 10 minutes before clicking yes, they'll either complain, or go do something else until it's done.
I know I never read em', haha.

I have a way, make the files password protected. OR if anybody has as said illegally modified the game, add a scanner to the game that scans all files as the game runs, matches those to those on a VSTEP computer and if anything doesn't match, the game WILL NOT run unless the game is re-installed. or whatever action VSTEP wants to take. Although, files allowed to change, be on an "allowed list". For thoughs wanting to change anything in the scanner, you would need VSTEP Administrative Password to do so, (which no one would know) If VSTEP gives permission to modify anything in the game you will be given a code that goes with the serial key. If not acquired then, later on if acquired, an in-game option to put the code in.

For all those that hate me say "I".  For those that agree with me, say "I do"

Thank you

Patrick Millett

[Hudizzle]

Yeah, but then you know someone's going to come along who knows enough about computers and programming to fill a warehouse, then they'd just find a way override or change those security measures too.
That's the thing about computers, no matter what, there's always a way to get around certain things. It's always like that. some takes a security measure. then a hacker comes and finds a way around it. Then the person makes another, better security measure. then another hacker one-ups them again.
Of course I'm always one to doubt 

It's probably best to just let it go, though. Because if you have too many security measures, it starts to be a problem. After all, look around.. is it really a "world ending" problem?

[pmillett22]

Not really. Unless VSTEP was willing to go that far.

[Stuart2007]

Yes, the EULA is a legal type document/license, but, it's certainly not law. It's not law because there is no effective way to enforce it.

I must remind you that I am partially in agreement with your sentiments, but you are totally wrong on the above point of law.

In most civilised countries there are 2 types of law- criminal, and civil. Criminal covers all the stuff the Police deal with- but civil law is still a real law. You entered into a contract with Vstep (an implied contract, but still genuine.

Contract law can be pursued through the courts quite easily. However, in reality I very much doubt that Vstep will- but do not confuse 'won't' with 'can't'.

It is more of a 'get out' clause so that in the event that it does cause some system wide failure (are you sufficiently knowledgeable to guarantee it won't harm your system?) you can not hold Vstep liable. Quite sensible and I employ similar things in my contracts with customers AND staff.. unlikely I will ever use them, but it gives me some safety.

Stu

[captain_Adam]

It doesn't work....i've copyed it but it doesn't do anything diffrent at all....do you go to free roam because the wave is still on 4.00 meters high ??

[Orinoco]

Stu, there have been instances of Courts striking down parts of/whole EULA's before because of their unrealistic contractual obligations.

[Stuart2007]

The unfair contract terms act (I think most countries have a similar act/procedure)

I very much doubt, however, that this EULA would be struck out as you put it. Unless the terms and conditions are realistic then it will hold up.

I can't see that Vsteps EULA is unreasonable (whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant in this instance).

Put this way: Vstep says 'don't reverse engineer the software' (that's all its really about)... what is unreasonable about that term that a court would refuse it?

Stu