Topic: So, you want the perfect storm...? (Read 83707 times)

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #250 on:** July 10, 2008, 19:14:56 »

Quote from: CARST on July 10, 2008, 18:17:35

Give is that feature back! It doesn't matter if it is not supported by you folks here, we (i think i speak for a lot of people here) want the high waves again. And i am not interested to still play v1.0.

You really should learn how to treat your customers...

And it you don't want the people messing around with files in the Ship Sim folder make it an "not supported expert option" or something like that and let the people use 15 or 20m waves in single player. Think creative and user-friendly, otherwise future versions won't have customers...

Hello CARST and welcome to the forum..

This was never a feature and as such it will not be 'given back'! It was a user made edit that was not meant to be and even breaks the EULA. The wave system is not meant to be higher than 4 meters so the ships will behave totally wrong when you mess with the game.

Again, it's not like VSTEP has taken away some "expert feature", this was never meant to be like that and is not realistic. And if you offer unrealistic ship behaviour like that, would that be a way to treat your customers, who exppect realism from a simulator.

Your attitude is not very pleasant, to be honest and I suggest you bring it down a notch. This files editing to get ridiculously high waves that ruin the functioning of the simulator has nothing to do with user-friendliness.

You are not entitled to anything apart from what you get when you purchase the game. Illegal editing is not a part of the deal. And if the developer decides to put a stop to that, it's their right. And most serioius players agree that there is no point in having such waves if it ruins the ship dynamics.

Regards,
Fred

CARST · « **Reply #251 on:** July 10, 2008, 19:22:50 »

Quote from: Agent|Austin on July 10, 2008, 19:08:13

They want to treat their customers while making problems to the game and the users computer?

Well, my game and computer had no problem trying it in version 1.0 and all the other people posting youtube videos with 20m seem to have no problems, too.

Quote from: Agent|Austin on July 10, 2008, 19:08:13

The waves ARE not function able with the game, the dynamics are impossible to create.

These waves were an undocumented feature, something the users shouldn't have discovered. But who cares, it is not supported, but up the users what to do with their game. Why then disable it completely?

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 19:14:56

Hello CARST and welcome to the forum..

This was never a feature and as such it will not be 'given back'! It was a user made edit that was not meant to be and even breaks the EULA. The wave system is not meant to be higher than 4 meters so the ships will behave totally wrong when you mess with the game.

Again, it's not like VSTEP has taken away some "expert feature", this was never meant to be like that and is not realistic. And if you offer unrealistic ship behaviour like that, would that be a way to treat your customers, who exppect realism from a simulator.

Your attitude is not very pleasant, to be honest and I suggest you bring it down a notch. This files editing to get ridiculously high waves that ruin the functioning of the simulator has nothing to do with user-friendliness.

You are not entitled to anything apart from what you get when you purchase the game. Illegal editing is not a part of the deal. And if the developer decides to put a stop to that, it's their right. And most serioius players agree that there is no point in having such waves if it ruins the ship dynamics.

Regards,
Fred

Simulator? The game is far away from being a realistic simulation. And with expert feature i didn't want to describe the playing around with 20m waves to be something expert-like if the ships behavior isn't meant to simulate more than 4m waves. But it gives the user and customer things to play with, who cares if suported or not...

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #252 on:** July 10, 2008, 19:31:17 »

Your computer may not have had a problem to deal with 20 meter waves, but the ships do, they do not react the right way to it.. hence making the dynamics side worthless.

And it was not a feature, users just edited a file, that they were not allowed to edit.

If you edit some files in a racing game to go much faster and then go online to beat everyone, would that also be a feature? Same thing, though on a different plane..The user is not allowed to edit certain files. And that's that.

And this is indeed a simulation game, but you cannot expect realism like in high end commercial simulators, they cost 1000's if not ten's of 1000's of euro's. You do the math.

However you twist and turn, we are talking illegal editing here, not features to play around with.
The next version will have a furhter evolved wave system. Things evolve over time, be patient, that's all I can say, you cannot create a perfect product in a few years, any idea how long MSFS has been around, and how bad the first ones were... how much room for improvement they had?

You're just wrong about this wave editing, no matter how many youtube video's there are. SS08 is not made for such waves, and again, that's that. As a person with an obvious expert view on things, I would think you'd be against any unrealistic editing of the waves?! right?

Regards,
Fred

CARST · « **Reply #253 on:** July 10, 2008, 19:59:20 »

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 19:31:17

However you twist and turn, we are talking illegal editing here, not features to play around with.
The next version will have a furhter evolved wave system. Things evolve over time, be patient, that's all I can say, you cannot create a perfect product in a few years, any idea how long MSFS has been around, and how bad the first ones were... how much room for improvement they had?

Illegal editing, it sounds like it is something forbidden. I don't know the dutch laws, but in Germany software EULAs are forbidden, cause everything about a product has to known to user before he buys a product, you can not force something later on the user when installing the already bought product.
But i don't want to make that here to a law-discussion and i understand that the producers never wanted the users to use higher waves than 4m, but it was possible by editing...
And you're mentioning MSFS. Sure in every version the users find things that could be better in the next version, but the main difference here is MS was never against any modifications, everything was possible. On the one hand you could edit files (aircraft and game configs) (that is what we are talking about in this thread) and on the other hand the game had options to do complete unrealistic things build into the GUI menus. Example given you can set the winds to totally unrealistic numbers and to crosswind approaches with 50knots, above the limit for every airplane out there. I wouldn't do it in regular cases, but sometimes for playing around it is fun.

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 19:31:17

You're just wrong about this wave editing, no matter how many youtube video's there are. SS08 is not made for such waves, and again, that's that. As a person with an obvious expert view on things, I would think you'd be against any unrealistic editing of the waves?! right?

I don't claim to have a expert view on ships, the realistic behavior of them or Ship Sim itself, i just think the producers should give the undocumented feature / bug / whatever you call it back. It doesn't have to be official, it is unrealistic, the ships aren't made for it, it is not part of simulating "the real world", but it doesn't crash the game and is fun for playing around. It is childish to remove this possibility: The users didn't play the game like wanted, to they change the "rules" in a way that everyone HAS to obey...

IRI5HJ4CK · « **Reply #254 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:05:54 »

Quote from: CARST on July 10, 2008, 18:17:35

Give is that feature back! It doesn't matter if it is not supported by you folks here, we (i think i speak for a lot of people here) want the high waves again. And i am not interested to still play v1.0.

You really should learn how to treat your customers...

And it you don't want the people messing around with files in the Ship Sim folder make it an "not supported expert option" or something like that and let the people use 15 or 20m waves in single player. Think creative and user-friendly, otherwise future versions won't have customers...

I think you need to learn some manners young man! if you don't like the Simulation then go somewhere else, v-step aren't going to customise ship simulator for YOU and plus, v-step are giving us the best simulator they can, not silly high waves that look like tsunami's, and in my opinion "not supported expert option" is a pile of rubbish, and it seems Ship Simulator is getting plenty of customers and will do in the future. I find all of what you have said rude and i think it is mocking what v-step and the ship sim community believe in, good quality simulation.

And you do NOT have any right to challange a moderator (Mad_Fred), again this is very ignorant.

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #255 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:07:58 »

I know where you're coming from, trust me... but when you installed the game, you agreed to the EULA, and in there, it says that reverse engineering is not allowed. So this is not forced upon people afterwards.

This is a valid, legally binding rule, and VSTEP was, and is, perfectly in their rights by taking this "loophole" out of the game.

That's really all there is to it.

I'd like a bit higher seas too, but I am not going to ruin the ship dynamics to get them, myself. I know some people do not care about those things, but the experience teaches us that those same people DO come to the forum to complain, ask for help, moan and... etc..

So VSTEP just took precautions to prevent that and the EULA justifies that.

Regards,
Fred

TerryRussell · « **Reply #256 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:23:43 »

Hi Fred.

Quote

Quote from: CARST on Today at 19:17:35
Give is that feature back! It doesn't matter if it is not supported by you folks here, we (i think i speak for a lot of people here) want the high waves again. And i am not interested to still play v1.0.

It's good to know that us folks here have this power to switch the wave-fiddling on and off, isn't it. It must be some new super power I've gained.

'Scuse me. Just off to create some 300 foot waves on the beach. Back soon... Any tidal waves in the Solent? Just blame us folks, apparently.

Oh, I see. He's not figured out that we don't actually program the simulator....

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #257 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:26:48 »

Surely Marmiteman has these awesome powers?

I mean, those pink tights can't be just for looks, right?

Fred

alewis.world · « **Reply #258 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:41:00 »

Carst

What is your "NEED" for such big waves.?

Personally I think that they treat there customers very well and are very supportive. I say you are being very rude towards them.

The rules are there for a reason, Technology/software gets Ruined easily, even more so when it is being tampered with for stupid reasons.

You should start to listen to mad_fred and others and give some respect to the developers and moderators. and this is coming from a 15 year old.

Alewis.world

(sorry for interrupting, I hate rudeness )

jonaskau · « **Reply #259 on:** July 10, 2008, 20:56:21 »

I dont get this to work, i dont got the latest patch installed (havent installed any patches)... ****** is wrong? AnswÃ¸r

[edit] inappropriate expression deleted by Terry

mvsmith · « **Reply #260 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:05:39 »

Heâ€™s the second clown today to come out of the woodwork and demand higher waves. Must be the start of the silly season. No matter how hard you try to explain to them the reasons for the cap, you just canâ€™t penetrate.
As for the threat that VSTEP will lose customers if they donâ€™t give them monster waves, they will be better off without those two.
Marty

TerryRussell · « **Reply #261 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:14:30 »

Can I be the third clown to come out of the woodwork today? Promise I won't ask for bigger waves. More marmite, yes. Bigger waves, no.

The waves in the game are plenty big enough. Set them to full size and sit in the wheelhouse of Pioneer. That will give an idea of their size. Remember that Pioneer is actually a pretty big boat.

The trouble is that when people look out from Latitude or Vermaas, those huge waves look small. Many people just don't grasp how large the vessels in SS really are. Of course the waves look small. But they are still realistic.

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 20:26:48

Surely Marmiteman has these awesome powers?

I mean, those pink tights can't be just for looks, right?

Fred

No, they keep these other bits warm! See?

Actually, I could do with the power to keep the waves down. Around here, we're as close to sea-level as you can get without drowning. But hey, you're Dutch! You understand these things. PS bet I live closer to a Windmill than you....

pauljanaway1 · « **Reply #262 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:16:49 »

dont tell me you live nere the windmill at sellsea bill

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #263 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:19:15 »

Quote from: TerryRussell on July 10, 2008, 21:14:30

No, they keep these other bits warm! See?

Actually, I could do with the power to keep the waves down. Around here, we're as close to sea-level as you can get without drowning. But hey, you're Dutch! You understand these things. PS bet I live closer to a Windmill than you....

Ah I see!

Yeah, we have our experience with the sea indeed. BTW, the nearest windmill is about 60 to 80 meters away from me. Though technically it isnt a windmill anymore, because they took the sails off. But the main structure is still there. It's a historical monument. So I guess it counts. How close are you to one?

Fred

TerryRussell · « **Reply #264 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:27:14 »

Got a working one just up the road. (dead ones don't count!).

Selsey Windmill. A tourist attraction these days, but it was grinding flour commercially in the 1950s I believe. I think it still does some milling, so that tourists can pay hgh prices for a bit of self-raising.

PS coming to Utrecht soon!

alewis.world · « **Reply #265 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:31:43 »

Selsey is quite close to me .
I live near Arundel

alewis.world

TerryRussell · « **Reply #266 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:36:14 »

Arundel... Ah, that place up North.

Is this your house?

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #267 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:44:56 »

Quote from: TerryRussell on July 10, 2008, 21:27:14

Got a working one just up the road. (dead ones don't count!).

Selsey Windmill. A tourist attraction these days, but it was grinding flour commercially in the 1950s I believe. I think it still does some milling, so that tourists can pay hgh prices for a bit of self-raising.

PS coming to Utrecht soon!

The one here is still working, just not driven by wind anymore.. and I think they make cattle food or something. Anyway, without sails, I reckon it indeed doesn't count.

Lots of windmills here have gone 'tourist attraction' aswell.. obviously, there's much more money to be made that way.

Coming to Utrecht? Well perhaps we can meet up for a chat and a drink or something, that is, if I can fit it into my schedule aswell.

Fred

alewis.world · « **Reply #268 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:45:57 »

i wish , I can only dream.

good old Arundel castle. its weird ive lived here for my whole life but only ever once been to the castle.

alewis.world

TerryRussell · « **Reply #269 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:49:28 »

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 21:44:56

Coming to Utrecht? Well perhaps we can meet up for a chat and a drink or something, that is, if I can fit it into my schedule aswell.

Fred

I'm assessing an Educational Institute, so I'll be there for a number of days. Probably end of September. I have to do the same in Sweden, Norway, Canada, South Africa and possibly Australia. So shuffling dates around like crazy at the moment!

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #270 on:** July 10, 2008, 21:52:42 »

Well if you're done shuffling and know something more, I'll be open for suggestions.

You've got some nice trips ahead of you again then... No idea what the work portion of those is like, but hey, I bet you get to enjoy them aswell, right?

Anyway, we're going a bit off topic here...

Fred

TerryRussell · « **Reply #271 on:** July 10, 2008, 22:03:23 »

Hi Fred.

Going off topic in this thread is well worth it! Everything that needs to be asked and every answer that needs to be given, is already in the posts above. There has been absolutely nothing new added for months.

So let's chat happily in this disused section...

It's hard work and a considerable responsibility. I have to assess whether or not various Educational Institutes are worthy to be able to award certain types of qualifications. As I wrote the methodology, I am considered to be knowledgeable. But that doesn't make it easier. Probably harder...

Mad_Fred · « **Reply #272 on:** July 10, 2008, 22:11:37 »

I guess you're right Terry, this topic isn't really going to be badly affected about a bit of off topic chatter.

I hear you on the hard work, mate. Indeed more knowledge doens't always make things easier.

Fred

Agent|Austin · « **Reply #273 on:** July 11, 2008, 03:08:21 »

Quote from: Mad_Fred on July 10, 2008, 22:11:37

I guess you're right Terry, this topic isn't really going to be badly affected about a bit of off topic chatter.

I hear you on the hard work, mate. Indeed more knowledge doens't always make things easier.

Fred

I must be hallucinating.

TerryRussell · « **Reply #274 on:** July 11, 2008, 08:48:21 »

Quote from: Agent|Austin on July 11, 2008, 03:08:21

I must be hallucinating.

Yes you are.

I am not really a large pink frog, drinking tea with marmite sandwiches. (i'm green!)

Author Topic: So, you want the perfect storm...? (Read 83707 times)

TerryRussell

mvsmith

TerryRussell

TerryRussell

TerryRussell

TerryRussell

TerryRussell

TerryRussell