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[[RWP]DJM]

Firstly, I can't see why you're picking up on these apparent 'faults' (as you describe them), you're making a point about bugs, when this topic isn't even about bugs.  I can't see the point of trying to instigate some kind of heated debate about this, when most members will agree that a lot of what they've asked for, has been provided by Vstep

This converstaion didn't even start about bugs, yet you appear to be 'stuck' on that subject, almost like you're trying to prove Vstep did wrong in some way

I've already stated about what's been added/changed, including mentioning bug fixes, but 'bugs' appear to be the only thing you can't get past

Anyway, I'm off to watch the X-Files now

[Stuart2007]

No, that isn't what I'm saying at all.

I thnk my initial comment about vstep not really listening to people is still valid.

Most of what you are listing are things that were supposed to be with the initial release of 2008; I don't take issue with them being late at all- that's life. But don't list them as great developments when they are just late releases of the initial programme, please!

Anyway, time will tell, won't it?

[Stuart2007]

I've had a PM from a member who says that there was an online survey in April (I was away in the seychelles eating Marmite at the time, so missed it).

So, IF vstep is now listening to its customers, then that is a different story altogether. I think you (still) misunderestimate (sorry, had to say that) my point. My point is that I'm NOT saying shipsim is *&^* or whatever, just concerned about future development, that's all. OK?

I think, Mr DJM if you read back the past page or so, I was making a valid point about wave heights.

[[RWP]DJM]

Hiya Stu

I wasn't saying that your points weren't valid, we're all customers of Vstep after all, and our opinions must surely count for something

I just thought you were emphasising bugs a little too much, especially when the conversation wasn't about bugs, but features that have been included since release of Ship Simulator

Wave heights aren't something I'd be interested in personally, but I do understand that some members are

It wasn't anything personal of course, and a healthy discussion is always good

[Stuart2007]

I think the 4m waves a bit on the small side, but not a major problem- my point is that there are many people who seem to disagree.

I don't think ship sim has developed as much as you do, but, as you say, difference of opinion.

My faith has been restored a bit by sight of this survey that was undertaken. That's all I ask. Time and time again a company comes up with a good idea and gets well ahead of their competitors and then doesn't evolve fast enough to STAY ahead.

No, of course it isn't personal. That I'm right and you are wrong is fine by me 

[[RWP]DJM]

As you know Stu, some of us have direct contact with the development team, and we can really see how hard they are striving to deliver for customers.  Not everyone will see that of course, but when you look beyond the surface, you'd be surprised what's revealed

I can only congratulate Vstep on their commitment to customers, and I don't believe anyone can criticise them, when they don't see the full story with regards to development

I am speaking as a customer there too, despite the fact that I'm also a Moderator and Beta Tester

Edit: Typo

[Stuart2007]

Yes, so did I at one time if you recall.

It is a fact of life- regrettable perhaps- that people and businesses get judged on deliverence, not intent.

I run my own (successful) company too, remember and I know how much goes on behind the scenes that my customers don't know or care about.

I think it would be better just to agree to disagree. Time will tell who is right. And I hope YOU are right...

[[RWP]DJM]

No problem Stu

Another healthy discussion methinks.  Good for the soul I reckon




Now where did I leave that soul...............hmm..........

[Stuart2007]

Well, I've just been called a 'very dispondent person'...

Tell you what- I'm going to fire up the computer when I get back and see if I can re-engage my enthusiasm.

I used to really like it, maybe I will again. Stranger things have happened. (Like horse becoming pope  )

Edited for forum rules compliance.[color]

[TerryRussell]

Stu, what types of mission do you prefer?

[Stuart2007]

I'm glad you asked that. After my disagreement with Mr DJM, I fired up ss08 (and 06 after) and had a bit of a play.

I had a go on one mission- a user mission- the red eagle from soton to cowes and back. It was one of the first (decent) uploads. Forgot its name...

It needs skill to manouver the vessel into Cowes and is long enough to 'get into' it, but not so long as making me lose my will to live.

Was it the mission or just the environment? Both really.
-There is a basic sea lane into Cowes which seems pretty realistic to me, as is the bottom of the Solent, with its sand banks- there was something to do at all times- navigating buoys and occasional course corrections for collision avoidance etc.
-Most importantly, IMO was the ability to complete a voyage from beginning to end. I feel it worthless when taking the PoR from Rotterdam then suddenly BANG- the land disappears and you are in the North Sea with a "game over" banner. This is why I was such a proponent of the short ferry crossing ideas.

Good grief- I bet you wish you'd never asked now 

[TerryRussell]

Actually, I have a set of never-released 5 missions covering the Solent. They involve Red Jet, Red Eagle and a couple of smaller vessels, and the whole set involve taking Ferries from So'ton to Cowes, Cowes to Potrsmouth, Portsmouth via Southsea and Ryde back to Cowes and then Cowes to So'ton. Total time is about 6 hours.

You even get to carry a senior politician (man overbaord - please) on the way.

They are in a set of 4 sequential missions and a 5th one that also is Solent related using Red Jet 4. That is basically Portsmouth, sightseeing around the forts, over to Ryde then Wooton Creek and finally up to Cowes..

I couldn't release them via the upload facility as a lot of my missions are too complex for it and they get corrupted. But I can send you a link to collect them if you're interested. They have all been QC tested by various CMMs for me so they're OK.

I have a total of about 10 missions that I can't upload. I'm not alone with this problem.

[Stuart2007]

It would be great to have a go of them.

Not just because its British and I happen to like Pompey, but the Solent is definately my favourite environment by a long way.

It's weird though, back in the beginning when most complaints were about the red eagle and its steering system, I got to grips with it straight away. Definately the most fun. 

[ken83]

I think u all "wave fanatics" should wait for vstep, what i have understud they had an little development crew at the start, and Ship Simulator is so new (if compare with flightsim).

This simulator is growing all the time, which mean vsteps crew grow! And hey all, Ship Simulator 2009 will have tornados, better sea engine and so on...

I WILL ENJOY THIS GAME THAT WAY IT´S DEVELOPED!! 

REG. KEN83

[Stuart2007]

Well, I've just been called an removed...

Tell you what- I'm going to fire up the computer when I get back and see if I can re-engage my enthusiasm.

I used to really like it, maybe I will again. Stranger things have happened. (Like horse becoming pope  )

Edited for a variation on language, DJM.

Well, I've just been called an removed...

Tell you what- I'm going to fire up the computer when I get back and see if I can re-engage my enthusiasm.

I used to really like it, maybe I will again. Stranger things have happened. (Like horse becoming pope  )

Edited for a variation on language, DJM.

Any chance you could remind me what I typed (in PM if you prefer) this is bugging me as I'm usually quite careful with language.

[ACR]

its a never ending story i think.... i,m sure no major improvements will be done in ss08 since the power of development is put on for shipsim 09.

shipsim 09 will have the improvements what we wish for shipsim 08 but of course its will be not a free bugfix.

in shipsim 09 we will see new bugs and we will post new requests for fixes. some will be fixed and again- real improvements we can see in shipsim 2010.

if there ever will be shipsim 2010 on the market surely depends how many customers are happy with this politics and how many money vstep can earn with this.

thats the market in game industry gentlemen, its a never ending story...                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[Stuart2007]

There is a phrase that I think is appropriate to this.. "EVolution, not REVolution"

Why re-invent the wheel when the wheel is- far from perfect- but showing POTENTIAL for perfection.

[TerryRussell]

There is a phrase that I think is appropriate to this.. "EVolution, not REVolution"

Why re-invent the wheel when the wheel is- far from perfect- but showing POTENTIAL for perfection.

I guess that the ecomonmics are that it earns more money to sell you a new wheel with an improved wheel trim than to sell you a better wheel trim...

[ACR]

I guess that the ecomonmics are that it earns more money to sell you a new wheel with an improved wheel trim than to sell you a better wheel trim...

you are soo right. and so lets look forward if the known bugs will be fixed for ss09.

its a waste of time to hope for fundamental better ship dynamics or new (higher) wave dynamics in ss08.

[Stuart2007]

If everytime a new wheel is released it still is not round...

I know how the economics of it works- I wish that I didn't of course.

EDIT: Put another way... what is the main selling point of ss09? I don't want to reignite the extinguished arguement but I don't think ss08 has quite met the potential that we all thought it would.

Just have a look at the forum- there are more posts about marmite than most of the ship sim topics. It is a product with massive potential, but I remain unconvinced that vstep is going the right way about exploiting it. Where's the 'monthly subscription for new model/ scenario' etc?

If you look back I used to really defend vstep- and I hope I will feel able to do so again at some point- but they just don't seem to communicate at all with customers any more.

[baldax]

cool man.. doesnt the ship capsize after? lol

[Viper01]

Being a computer professional myself I'm somewhat surprised that Vstep would suggest canceling support based upon this kind of simple modification.  It's not like your editing the CD in any way.  You're making a small modification to a text-based file.  If it screws up, you simply delete what you added to the file, restore a backup copy of the file, or uninstall the program and then reinstall from the CD.  No harm, no foul.

If you want to go to levels of stupidity, I'm technically modifying the program in the same manor when I use their in-game weather saving option.  The EULA doesn't really differentiate that.  It's the same file that's being modified.  The difference is simply that one modification is manual and one is automatic. 

[TerryRussell]

Just have a look at the forum- there are more posts about marmite than most of the ship sim topics. It is a product with massive potential

Yes, Marmite is pretty impressive, isn't it?

OK, this may be off-topic, but the topic is going round and round with nothing new being added. Can someone kill it and put it out of its misery? 

[ACR]

Being a computer professional myself I'm somewhat surprised that Vstep would suggest canceling support based upon this kind of simple modification.  It's not like your editing the CD in any way.  You're making a small modification to a text-based file.  If it screws up, you simply delete what you added to the file, restore a backup copy of the file, or uninstall the program and then reinstall from the CD.  No harm, no foul.

If you want to go to levels of stupidity, I'm technically modifying the program in the same manor when I use their in-game weather saving option.  The EULA doesn't really differentiate that.  It's the same file that's being modified.  The difference is simply that one modification is manual and one is automatic. 

yes, by law you probably are right, but thats the therory. in practise you simply loose this rights and maybe you get banned here. in 99% thats it for vstep. i think only very few people would go for a court of law judging the support rights for a 40€ game.

i also do not appretiate this but as a simple cutomer you only "weapon" ist not to buy.

[Viper01]

yes, by law you probably are right, but thats the therory. in practise you simply loose this rights and maybe you get banned here. in 99% thats it for vstep. i think only very few people would go for a court of law judging the support rights for a 40€ game.

i also do not appretiate this but as a simple cutomer you only "weapon" ist not to buy.

Agreed... Personally, I say if you modify the waves keep it to yourself.  If you do have a problem with the game just uninstall/reinstall and it'll more than likely fix whatever you screwed up.  It'll also remove any evidence that you messed with the thing to begin with.  I mean, after patch 1.4.1 I honestly don't think they would really have a right to point fingers.