SDK R.I.P.

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[mporter]

Indeed we want to tap into the knowledge, experience and skills of the people from our user community.
We do want to keep the game alive with new vessels created by external modelers.
That's why I offered to even pay people for their 3D models, if they are of sufficient quality.
The only difference with FlightSim is that  we are not able to make an SDK for this.
We need to do the integration work here, using several specialists.
The first model created by a user that will be integrated in the game, in the August patch, is the Clyde Puffer of Simon Richardson.

Pjotr, you just don't get it! 

There are lots of good modelers around who have plenty of work and don't need another job. Some of them might, however, be interested in playing around with a design whether it meets your standards or not.  Then too, there are the people who are just beginning, who will be quite a while getting to the level where they could make an acceptable professional model, but who would nevertheless like to drive their creations around themselves.

The lack of an SDK (even a "forthcoming" one) has severly diominished my interest in buying SS-08.

[William Bensch]

Why dont u try FSX and go fumble with ships and SDK there for practice....and come back for it later ..show us what u got...

If the sdk of S.S.2008 is open for everybody  it wouldt just break the tranquil joy.

i want this designer team of SS2008 to astonish me with theire designs..

not any newb with a idear for its own only.

P.S.edit

and for the commercial view....
dont give out tha SDK to others cuss they prolly gonna make use of it to make ad-ons for this sim..
for theire own benefit..
think this right a.t.m. belongs to SS2008 design to make it stronger..

[Orinoco]

Why dont u try FSX and go fumble with ships and SDK there for practice....and come back for it later ..show us what u got...

If the sdk of S.S.2008 is open for everybody  it wouldt just break the tranquil joy.

i want this designer team of SS2008 to astonish me with theire designs..

not any newb with a idear for its own only.

No one said you HAD to download designs you don't like, did they?

[pjotr]

As I stated before, we do stimulate people to make their own ships and, eventually, scenery.
People just need our help to add their contributions to the game.

[J3nsen]

So SketchUp, in or out?

Hope it's in!

[Eemspoort]

This discussion is getting boring. Just more of the same.
Doesn't anybody read? Í have no interests in VStep what so ever, but i do like to come up for them.

Like stated by others before, VStep is a young company, and ShipSim is a very young game/simulator.
Offcourse i understand, that with the technology of today, an SDK should be fairly simple to make by the "specialists". However, if they do not have the knowledge/experience to make a "simple" version of there internal program, then what can we do/say? It's just a matter of time.

I'm sure, when the time comes, VStep will come up with an SDK. Maybe not now, but for a future ShipSim.
We can't win them all, people. If we don't give VStep the time to think abaut it and work on it, then what are we? Just a bunch of unpatient gamers. Instead of a bunch of sim-lovers.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm dissapointed to, that the SDK isn't comming. And i do think, the statement of giving out an SDK was premature from VStep. But change of plans can do strange things. Only comment i have on VStep now is, they could bring the news much earlyer, that there isn't going to be an SDK for SS08.

And i'm comming back to my first post in this thread. I do like the offer of VStep, to help finnish the projects from 3rd party desinger, to make them work in SS08. They even wan't to pay for it! Well then, is it to much to ask, that we would pay for the "add-ons"?
Offcourse, the price needs to be reasonable! If SS08 costs twice as much at the end of the year, just because of the add-ons, then the fun in it will rapidly go down.

Pjotr: Can you agree with us, that the next SS really needs an SDK? Then please work on that, because by the looks of it   it is REALLY a highly wanted feature!

mporter: Common, mate, you really need to cool down here. We are all just humans, not machines or wizards. Offcourse i get your point of view, but your getting carryied away with it. I mean, this isn't something personal, right? And if your really tired of SS, then just step away from it and don't look back.
Have some patients.

[Cloud]

Indeed; We're beating a dead horse here! 

One thing i must comment on;

and for the commercial view....
dont give out tha SDK to others cuss they prolly gonna make use of it to make ad-ons for this sim..
for theire own benefit..
think this right a.t.m. belongs to SS2008 design to make it stronger..

William, I'm sorry, but i think you are expressing a very narrow commercial perspective here. Flight Sim is all the proof you need. 

Cheers,

Larse

[mporter]

mporter: Common, mate, you really need to cool down here. We are all just humans, not machines or wizards. Offcourse i get your point of view, but your getting carryied away with it. I mean, this isn't something personal, right? And if your really tired of SS, then just step away from it and don't look back.
Have some patients.

Yeah, you're right (and Cloud is too) -- it's just the measure of my frustration.  But I'll let it go and check back in six months or a year and see how it is going.

Cheers,
Michael

[KPD]

I now feel kindda guilty for bringing this FlightSim/ShipSim comparison thing up. I had no intention but to help and fortunately, those who needed to "get it," got it!!!

Before this goes further and VSTEP scraps the whole idea because some people don't know what SDK is for or are happy with just the default ships, let me summarise what's going on...

- 3rd party developers need SDK to convert their work (3d/2d/dynamics/etc.; could be a Tanker, Cruise liner, inflatable Santa Clause, Singapore harbour, whatever!) into the game models.

- VSTEP, for "purely technical" reasons is unable to release the SDK. Instead, they are offering developers to send in their work to be converted by VSTEP programmers.

- Users will then be able to download these converted stuff via subscribing to VSTEP dedicated network.

So that's that. Problems are:

- VSTEP might not be able to deal with God knows how many enthusiasts who want their work released ASAP!

- There won't be any freeware since users will have to pay for subscription.

- Paywares will have to be released and sold via VSTEP. Because they do the conversion and because they own the dedicated network. How VSTEP and payware designers are going to come to an agreement regarging this is not yet clear.

Thankfully, pjotr made it clear that VSTEP actually like the 3rd party developer idea and would "tap into the knowledge, experience and skills of the people from the user community." Nobody here is trying to bash the game and its developers. In fact, the only reason that we started this whole discussion was to help the community grow bigger and atract more people to this game by showing off our fancy shining designs. If you're happy with the default game, that's fair enough. If you want more, please suggest something helpful.

[Cloud]

Nice synopsis KPD, now lets wait and see....

[adamano]

i dont know what an sdk is, but i think its something to do with adding your own ships?

[William Bensch]

USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..


gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
  nuthin to ad just air.

[Orinoco]

USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..


gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
  nuthin to ad just air.

1) You don't have to read this topic.
2) You don't have to reply to this topic.

[William Bensch]

1) You don't have to read this topic.
2) You don't have to reply to this topic.

1) you dont have to quote me.
2)

[Captain Kool]

It's probably not a good idea, but maybe if some of the ships sent in by modellers could be free and the rest subscription. I too agree that VSTEP promised alot for SS08 and alot got cut off so they could release it early, which was a bad idea.

[JHB]

It's probably not a good idea, but maybe if some of the ships sent in by modellers could be free and the rest subscription. I too agree that VSTEP promised alot for SS08 and alot got cut off so they could release it early, which was a bad idea.

The good idea is that VSTEP allow free add-ons from those who like to contribute this and paid add-ons from those who like to get something back for all the hard work.
Then you can start talking about a game that will grow into the future...

But the true side of the case is that VSTEP cannot provide this yet, and there is not any magic or great solution on this. So we just have to wait and deal with it. The ones that feel themselves like losers in this case is the ones that though that the SDK with such abilities would come this year. But now we just see a limited and small version of it.
There is really no more to complain about. The rest we can complain about is bugs. 

[KPD]

i dont know what an sdk is, but i think its something to do with adding your own ships?

Google is your best friend on the Net!

SDK stands for Software Development Kit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development_kit). It could be just a bunch of documents explaining what's for what AND/OR new stand-alone softwares that help modifying different features of the original software.

For example, this is the guide to creating a skin for FireFox: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Creating_a_Skin_for_Firefox

It's only documents. Required softwares are Java and Image editors of your choice.

ShipSim SDK would have to be some sort of stand-alone software that allows developers to modify the dynamics and texturing of each ship and convert their 3D models (made in 3DS Max, GMAX, etc.) into game models. All that, plus some documents explaining how to do these things and what the game limits are.

SDK has nothing to do with game performance. Does not alter frame rate. Does not make the game look better or worse. In fact, SDK is useless to normal users. You don't need FireFox SDK to browse the net. You need it to creat extentions and skins. Likewise, you don't need the ShipSim SDK to play the game. You need it to creat ships or scenery.

[Captain Davies]

Perhaps, Pjotr, you could sort out some of the confusion by setailing just what it would take for Vstep to implement this SDK in the game.  If you already have and it escaped my short attention span then accept my apologies. 

[Cloud]

USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..


gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
  nuthin to ad just air.

Steady there sport! There's no need for stereotyping and bringing people's nationality into this conversation.... If you've got a reasonable argument, make your point, don't insult people. 

Keep it civil and relevant mate. 

Cheers,

Larse

[KPD]

I think he was just being a bit sarcastic and meant it as a joke.

Funny, I've always had problems with my old American mate about this sarcasm thing. For instance, I think the commentators on Hot Dog Eating contest meant exactly what they said when they said it was "the greatest moment in the history of American sports! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqaX9HmQgw)" Danno, my mate, on the other hand says they were being sarcastic. A colleagues of mine blames caffeine overdose and says they shouldn't have downed the whole coffee flask!!!

It must be a cultural thing. I think us, Europeans, take sarcasm less seriously than you do. We think of it as a bad joke. You think of it as criticism. Or maybe I shouldn't have had too much coffee tonight! Whatever. I'm off to bed!

[Cloud]

Cheers for that KPD, 

No bother! It's a done deal. 

[Orinoco]

I think he was just being a bit sarcastic and meant it as a joke.

Funny, I've always had problems with my old American mate about this sarcasm thing. For instance, I think the commentators on Hot Dog Eating contest meant exactly what they said when they said it was "the greatest moment in the history of American sports! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqaX9HmQgw)" Danno, my mate, on the other hand says they were being sarcastic. A colleagues of mine blames caffeine overdose and says they shouldn't have downed the whole coffee flask!!!

It must be a cultural thing. I think us, Europeans, take sarcasm less seriously than you do. We think of it as a bad joke. You think of it as criticism. Or maybe I shouldn't have had too much coffee tonight! Whatever. I'm off to bed!

Hm, I realise that Sarcasm isn't the easiest thing to convey in a forum, but I don't think he was being sarcastic personally. I was actually ready to do the same as Cloud and say not to make nationality a factor.

On another note, I personally have always found that our American friends find it hard to distinguish when I'm being sarcastic and when I'm being serious. 

[[RWP]DJM]

I personally think this conversation could be heading for 'rough seas' (pun intended).  Maybe we should get back on-topic eh

Regards.

DJM.

[KPD]

Yes please. Main topic. Hot Dog eating contest!

[Cdre Gibs]

Not only am I disappointed, I'm also shocked. Shocked to think that any Game/Sim Company can be this nieave. One only has to look to game/sims like Silent Hunter III/IV to see what the community can and will do with a ship sim type game/sim. Not only did Ubisoft refuse to release their promised SDK/MDK to the community as VStep has, they also tried to grab models from the community. Did it work, no not really. So what happened instead you ask?

The community made their own SDK/MDK and went at it with out any input or direction from Ubisoft. End result, many free mods for ppl to d/l and tweak their SHIII. And one mod in particular was so extensive, so well made, so much a "must have" that not only did it exceed 500 000 D/L's, it also made it into many Game Magazines and had rave reviews. To the extent that it was considered Silent Hunter III point 5. This is the power of a truly motivated community.

How do I know, because I was part of "THAT" mod team. We added over 130 new ships, we added around 20 new Aircraft. Made completely new Harbours. Tweaked ALL Vessels to have the "Real Life Mod" (Ship Dynamics - by me). All weapons to have the "LRG Mod". All instruments to work correctly. Made all Radar arry''s move as designed. The list of corrected and addon items is huge, way to long for me to mention here. The amount of time it took to do the mod, 1 year and 3 months. How long did Silent Hunter III last from release date ? Its still being played and Sold today, near on 5 years after its release.

So it all comes down to this, either VStep has some input in to their own future (Sales, which lets face it is what its all about for VStep) or the community will eventually do it all by themselves with NO input or semi control by VStep. The choice is yours, not mine.