Ship Simulator
English forum => Development corner => Topic started by: mporter on July 19, 2007, 12:32:56
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It seems that there is not to be an SDK after all :( >:( >:(
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,1071.0.html (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,1071.0.html)
I think this is very unfortunate. I for one would very much like to add my own models to my own copy of the game first and experiment with them. Then, if they worked out OK and there was interest, I'd give them to Vstep.
I have very little interest in participating in the process as Pjotr describes it, however.
Cheers,
Michael
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I agree it's to bad that there isn't going to be an SDK.
However, i do apriciate the suggestion of Pjotr. After all, they don't HAVE to do it.
But they are willing to. And i think, that is a great thing!
So why not participate? To bad i don't have the time, or the knowledge to make virtual ships. I sure would participate in this!
Oh well, we will see, what happens. ;)
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I agree it's to bad that there isn't going to be an SDK.
However, i do apriciate the suggestion of Pjotr. After all, they don't HAVE to do it.
But they are willing to. And i think, that is a great thing!
So why not participate? To bad i don't have the time, or the knowledge to make virtual ships. I sure would participate in this!
Oh well, we will see, what happens. ;)
Why not is that the program as outlined raises what is meant to be a pastime into WORK, and I have plenty of that already. I could/would enjoy playing around with a model and if it worked out posting it so others could take it or leave it, with no harm done either way. But to have to produce a model that met some poorly-articulated standard and then waiting to see if it would be "acceptable" . . . well, that is what I do all day anyway, so I'm sure not going to do it in my free time!
Cheers,
Michael
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And further, if you look back at the SS06 forum (the old one) the inability of users to add ships was a major issue, and an SDK was firmly promised for SS08!
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I’m disappointed too. But the way they want to pay modellers does interest me; it’s just how they are going to pay these? By check, PayPal, bank transfer? ???
If this service becomes true I hope commercial 3rd part developers like me can survive on this job, since there is a lot of work involved, since 3D models have to be designed from scratch and not by using pre-made elements. What I’m more afraid of is how we are going to be sure that the 3D model works with the game if we cannot test it in the game (called debugging)? Then VSTEP have to take the debugging part?
I do have a sort of understanding that it will take time to implement this SDK program into the game. But many of us have been waiting on this since the beginning of the SS2006 as mporter described. :-\
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I'm sorry for my quick reply here. I wasn't aware of some facts.
But after reading the above reply's, i understand the dissapointment better now. And the reasons why some people don't like to participate.
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This is a shame a) because I would have liked to have tried my hand at a bit of modelling and b) because I was looking forward to having a number of free downloads available. I understand why and I don't hold it against Vstep, I just find it a shame.
I'm not encouraged by the idea of the subscription service, mainly because I am apprehensive about that sort of thing. But my feeling is; wouldn't it be better to release the ships as an add on pack every few months or make the downloadable ships a pay as you go thing? People may not want every ship that comes their way.
On the matter of static objects it is indeed easier to model them than it is to model a boat. I would very much like to create a few models of my own and have them in the game, especially if it makes it easier for us to have extra enviroments in game. My question is, would it be possible for models created in SketchUp (the free version) to be used?
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:-[ so am I also...
Of course, the subscription thing must be :-\ assessed, it could be not quite ??? interesting for everybody to pay for the x-th ferry or cruise liner, while he longs for RIBs or tugs.
That is why the proposition of Captain Davies (add on pack or downloadable) ;) is much more interesting, in my view too.
But the most >:( disappointing (for me) is that it seems there will be no editor of the dynamics of the ships! It shows clearly that it will no longer tend to become a simulation like it was intended to be. It could indeed serve as ::) a demo builder for companies, with a feeling ;D of realism due to the nice renderings and to the limitations as a game, but not for more than that.
Regards,
Luc
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But the most >:( disappointing (for me) is that it seems there will be no editor of the dynamics of the ships! It shows clearly that it will no longer tend to become a simulation like it was intended to be. It could indeed serve as ::) a demo builder for companies, with a feeling ;D of realism due to the nice renderings and to the limitations as a game, but not for more than that.
Regards,
Luc
Exactiy! The ideal for me would be an engine that allowed resistance and powering of a given ship to be plugged in as variables (along with displacement, etc). Athis would allow some degree of testing new designs, as well.
Cheers,
Michael
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What a shame... I was really hoping for a Flight Sim kindda experience with this simulator as well. Seems to me that without SDK or any other guide for 3rd party designers, users will have to deal with the default ships. Subscription idea is "acceptable" only if VSTEP wants to domintae the addon designs. But on the other hand, if they let the freeware/payware designers to easily port their work into the game, there won't be any need for such "unnecessary troubles." Quality control is one of those unnecessary troubles. If I, as a user, read bad reviews about a product from other community users, I simply won't buy it. I don't need a Big Brother to tell me what's good to download and what's not.
Like i mentioned in the suggestion thread, the more freedom 3rd party designers have, the more this game will get popular. How people want to distibute their work should be none of VSTEP business and/or trouble. There are many freeware/payware groups designing scenery and aircraft for different Flight Simulator versions and to tell the truth, that's one of the main reasons FSim is one of the most, if not THE most popular simulator game out there. I would love to see that happen with ShipSim as well. But unfortunately, limiting other will not help at all.
Just the promissed Ship Editor would be a great start. A simple software to design dynamics, reskin default models and convert and port other 3D objects into the game would do MUCH MORE good to the community and VSTEP than a limited and moderated database of selected models.
Anyway... To cut the story short, as a Flight Sim enthusiast and 3rd party designer, in 14 years, I haven't seen a signle drawback in letting the community to do whatever they want with their ideas. In a way, this can be called "open source addon." Anybody who owns the original software can add/edit whatever and let the fun lasts for ever. Otherwise, I'd say a week or so is more than enough to get tired of the game!!!
Just my two Ps! :)
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The reason why we are not able to release a ship SDK is not because we want to keep a monopoly on new ships or anything. It is purely a technical matter. I tried to outline this pretty extensive in my posting I thought.
And I also never stated there would not be a ship dynamics editor. we may well release our internal dynamics editor in a few months, when it is stable and suitable for external use.
The subscription service will probably work like this: every month's issue can also be bought separately, as a kind of mini-add-on pack. Just like you can buy magazines in a kisok without the need for a subscription. But peope who subscribe for 12 months will get a discount, plus something extra. we will publish at least 6 months/ships ahead of time, to help people make up their mind. Subscribers will get more influence on the ships we will make in the future.
In the past we used bank wire transfers for international payments to external modelers. But we could also adopt PayPal as an alternative. We want to adopt it anyway for e-commerce transactions.
Regarding the smaller decoration objects, we will integrate these into the game and make them available for free in the next patch. We will not pay the modelers for these objects either. Only the player ships that require the massive list of manual labour items from our staff.
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Fair enough. Currect me if i'm wrong, but you're asking freeware desginers for a "sponsored fee." No matter how much this fee is going to be, it is enough reason for me to stop working as a freeware designer.
Now considering that i am still botherred to release my desgin as a payware, who is going to pay me? VSTEP (a one time payment)? Or subscribers to VSTEP network are going to pay a fee on top of their subscription fees?
Either way, I'd say it's unnecessary trouble for us, 3rd party desginers, for you, original software deginers and also for the users.
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Regarding the smaller decoration objects, we will integrate these into the game and make them available for free in the next patch. We will not pay the modelers for these objects either. Only the player ships that require the massive list of manual labour items from our staff.
So SketchUp, in or out?
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And further, if you look back at the SS06 forum (the old one) the inability of users to add ships was a major issue, and an SDK was firmly promised for SS08!
Hi, Could you point this post out? I must admit disappointment, but if it's not possible...
Stu
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For instance
http://www.shipsim.com/forum-en/viewtopic.php?t=143
Luc
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OK Luc, thanks...
Stu
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That posting was done almost a year ago. At that time the game was in a much less complex state. Many things have happened since that time:
1. We added walkthrough functionality and bridge steering on the add-on ships. We then found that this was way more difficult and time-consuming that we expected.
2. For SS08, we add waves and realistic ship motions on waves, visible damage, and bow spray water that reacts to the ship motions in the waves. This also meant that we had to do even more manual tweaking to get it right.
In short, we need a whole army of specialist programmers to get the ships in the state that they are. Last year with SS06 this was much more simple, and it could more easily be automated.
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That posting was done almost a year ago. At that time the game was in a much less complex state. Many things have happened since that time:
1. We added walkthrough functionality and bridge steering on the add-on ships. We then found that this was way more difficult and time-consuming that we expected.
2. For SS08, we add waves and realistic ship motions on waves, visible damage, and bow spray water that reacts to the ship motions in the waves. This also meant that we had to do even more manual tweaking to get it right.
In short, we need a whole army of specialist programmers to get the ships in the state that they are. Last year with SS06 this was much more simple, and it could more easily be automated.
Well, all I can say is your priorities and mine have clearly diverged. With these choices of eye-candy over performance, Virtual Sailor looks better and better.
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What's performance got to do with an SDK?
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What's performance got to do with an SDK?
An SDK would have to allow the user to set the performance (handling) values of any new ships. Maybe not change the (unsatisfactory) old ones, but it would be better than nothing.
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I am dissapointed.
Those addons will better be worth the money, I am not going to pay something like 5€ each month (if it isn't more) for 1 ship each month. :-\ :-X
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I totally agree. As I'm as well Flight Sim fan, a pilot and a hobby scale model ship builder with IT as a profession (designer/programmer/CAD/CAM) I see it exactly the same way.
With a new version of Ship Sim I expected:
1. SDK or any other possibility for community to design environments, vessels, etc.
2. it will add something more to the existing version
...but instead, Ship Sim 2008 is another game, old missions/ships are gone. I really appreciate new features, but I think lot of people expected, well something more.
Giving the community a possibility to design whatever people want or like and easily install it, it will dramatically change the game, making it much more interested - not getting bored of it after few days. And that will be even much bigger advantage for VSTEP, since this can improve their business quite well. Again, compare to Flight Sim. There is lot of add-ons, commercial or free, which are far better that the original planes or environments. Since vessels are quite complicated to design (as a scale modeler I know how much time it takes), it's impossible for a small group of people to design high quality vessels. Instead the community can do a much better job. When I saw a picture of the Pioneer pilot or Deo Volente mini heavy lift in 2006 add-on, they have hardly something more common to the real vessel (of which I have plans and made a lot of photos on board, since I'm building the scale models of them), than the name and a general siluette.
And a last point, since the game has a simulator in it's name, I expected in the future something more realistic - especially implementing at least some features from the real world - like navigation equipment, AIS, etc.. In fact, there is nothing new in the Ship Sim 2008, and I doubt if the simulator is the right word in it's name. So, another wait and see - maybe Ship Sim 2010?
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Indeed we want to tap into the knowledge, experience and skills of the people from our user community.
We do want to keep the game alive with new vessels created by external modelers.
That's why I offered to even pay people for their 3D models, if they are of sufficient quality.
The only difference with FlightSim is that we are not able to make an SDK for this.
We need to do the integration work here, using several specialists.
The first model created by a user that will be integrated in the game, in the August patch, is the Clyde Puffer of Simon Richardson.
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Again, compare to Flight Sim.
This has been discussed before. Flightsim is 22 YEARS OLD! Shipsim is 2 YEARS OLD. Flightsim has planes in it and shipsim has ships so why is everyone comparing shipsim with a totally different game? Flightsim has been going for ages and shipsim hasn't. I read that VSTEP was only founded in 2000. Look at their sight and see all the stuff they've done. Shipsim is still in it's early days.
Everyone is complaining about something or other. Let's just enjoy what we've already got. I think that VSTEP have done a great job in the space of two years.
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HI Shipaddict,
I agree that Shipsim has only been around for a couple years now and that Flightsim has evolved over a much longer period and that VSTEP have done a great job.
I think the concern that people are expressing however is a valid one. An integral component to the success of flightsim has been the ability for users to develop their own content. I hope I'm wrong about this but, not offering the ability to the community to build their own vessels and scenery will, i believe limit the eventual interest and evolution of this program.
Larse Klaoud
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Indeed we want to tap into the knowledge, experience and skills of the people from our user community.
We do want to keep the game alive with new vessels created by external modelers.
That's why I offered to even pay people for their 3D models, if they are of sufficient quality.
The only difference with FlightSim is that we are not able to make an SDK for this.
We need to do the integration work here, using several specialists.
The first model created by a user that will be integrated in the game, in the August patch, is the Clyde Puffer of Simon Richardson.
Pjotr, you just don't get it!
There are lots of good modelers around who have plenty of work and don't need another job. Some of them might, however, be interested in playing around with a design whether it meets your standards or not. Then too, there are the people who are just beginning, who will be quite a while getting to the level where they could make an acceptable professional model, but who would nevertheless like to drive their creations around themselves.
The lack of an SDK (even a "forthcoming" one) has severly diominished my interest in buying SS-08.
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Why dont u try FSX and go fumble with ships and SDK there for practice....and come back for it later ..show us what u got...
If the sdk of S.S.2008 is open for everybody it wouldt just break the tranquil joy.
i want this designer team of SS2008 to astonish me with theire designs..
not any newb with a idear for its own only.
P.S.edit
and for the commercial view....
dont give out tha SDK to others cuss they prolly gonna make use of it to make ad-ons for this sim..
for theire own benefit..
think this right a.t.m. belongs to SS2008 design to make it stronger..
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Why dont u try FSX and go fumble with ships and SDK there for practice....and come back for it later ..show us what u got...
If the sdk of S.S.2008 is open for everybody it wouldt just break the tranquil joy.
i want this designer team of SS2008 to astonish me with theire designs..
not any newb with a idear for its own only.
No one said you HAD to download designs you don't like, did they?
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As I stated before, we do stimulate people to make their own ships and, eventually, scenery.
People just need our help to add their contributions to the game.
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So SketchUp, in or out?
Hope it's in! :D
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This discussion is getting boring. Just more of the same.
Doesn't anybody read? Ã have no interests in VStep what so ever, but i do like to come up for them.
Like stated by others before, VStep is a young company, and ShipSim is a very young game/simulator.
Offcourse i understand, that with the technology of today, an SDK should be fairly simple to make by the "specialists". However, if they do not have the knowledge/experience to make a "simple" version of there internal program, then what can we do/say? It's just a matter of time.
I'm sure, when the time comes, VStep will come up with an SDK. Maybe not now, but for a future ShipSim.
We can't win them all, people. If we don't give VStep the time to think abaut it and work on it, then what are we? Just a bunch of unpatient gamers. Instead of a bunch of sim-lovers.
Now don't get me wrong, i'm dissapointed to, that the SDK isn't comming. And i do think, the statement of giving out an SDK was premature from VStep. But change of plans can do strange things. Only comment i have on VStep now is, they could bring the news much earlyer, that there isn't going to be an SDK for SS08.
And i'm comming back to my first post in this thread. I do like the offer of VStep, to help finnish the projects from 3rd party desinger, to make them work in SS08. They even wan't to pay for it! Well then, is it to much to ask, that we would pay for the "add-ons"?
Offcourse, the price needs to be reasonable! If SS08 costs twice as much at the end of the year, just because of the add-ons, then the fun in it will rapidly go down.
Pjotr: Can you agree with us, that the next SS really needs an SDK? Then please work on that, because by the looks of it ;) it is REALLY a highly wanted feature! ;D
mporter: Common, mate, you really need to cool down here. We are all just humans, not machines or wizards. Offcourse i get your point of view, but your getting carryied away with it. I mean, this isn't something personal, right? ;) And if your really tired of SS, then just step away from it and don't look back.
Have some patients. :)
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Indeed; We're beating a dead horse here!
One thing i must comment on;
and for the commercial view....
dont give out tha SDK to others cuss they prolly gonna make use of it to make ad-ons for this sim..
for theire own benefit..
think this right a.t.m. belongs to SS2008 design to make it stronger..
William, I'm sorry, but i think you are expressing a very narrow commercial perspective here. Flight Sim is all the proof you need. :)
Cheers,
Larse
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mporter: Common, mate, you really need to cool down here. We are all just humans, not machines or wizards. Offcourse i get your point of view, but your getting carryied away with it. I mean, this isn't something personal, right? ;) And if your really tired of SS, then just step away from it and don't look back.
Have some patients. :)
Yeah, you're right (and Cloud is too) -- it's just the measure of my frustration. But I'll let it go and check back in six months or a year and see how it is going.
Cheers,
Michael
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I now feel kindda guilty for bringing this FlightSim/ShipSim comparison thing up. I had no intention but to help and fortunately, those who needed to "get it," got it!!!
Before this goes further and VSTEP scraps the whole idea because some people don't know what SDK is for or are happy with just the default ships, let me summarise what's going on...
- 3rd party developers need SDK to convert their work (3d/2d/dynamics/etc.; could be a Tanker, Cruise liner, inflatable Santa Clause, Singapore harbour, whatever!) into the game models.
- VSTEP, for "purely technical" reasons is unable to release the SDK. Instead, they are offering developers to send in their work to be converted by VSTEP programmers.
- Users will then be able to download these converted stuff via subscribing to VSTEP dedicated network.
So that's that. Problems are:
- VSTEP might not be able to deal with God knows how many enthusiasts who want their work released ASAP!
- There won't be any freeware since users will have to pay for subscription.
- Paywares will have to be released and sold via VSTEP. Because they do the conversion and because they own the dedicated network. How VSTEP and payware designers are going to come to an agreement regarging this is not yet clear.
Thankfully, pjotr made it clear that VSTEP actually like the 3rd party developer idea and would "tap into the knowledge, experience and skills of the people from the user community." Nobody here is trying to bash the game and its developers. In fact, the only reason that we started this whole discussion was to help the community grow bigger and atract more people to this game by showing off our fancy shining designs. If you're happy with the default game, that's fair enough. If you want more, please suggest something helpful.
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Nice synopsis KPD, now lets wait and see....
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i dont know what an sdk is, but i think its something to do with adding your own ships?
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USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..
gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
nuthin to ad just air.
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USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..
gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
nuthin to ad just air.
1) You don't have to read this topic.
2) You don't have to reply to this topic.
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1) You don't have to read this topic.
2) You don't have to reply to this topic.
1) you dont have to quote me.
2) ;D
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It's probably not a good idea, but maybe if some of the ships sent in by modellers could be free and the rest subscription. I too agree that VSTEP promised alot for SS08 and alot got cut off so they could release it early, which was a bad idea.
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It's probably not a good idea, but maybe if some of the ships sent in by modellers could be free and the rest subscription. I too agree that VSTEP promised alot for SS08 and alot got cut off so they could release it early, which was a bad idea.
The good idea is that VSTEP allow free add-ons from those who like to contribute this and paid add-ons from those who like to get something back for all the hard work.
Then you can start talking about a game that will grow into the future... ;)
But the true side of the case is that VSTEP cannot provide this yet, and there is not any magic or great solution on this. So we just have to wait and deal with it. The ones that feel themselves like losers in this case is the ones that though that the SDK with such abilities would come this year. But now we just see a limited and small version of it. :(
There is really no more to complain about. The rest we can complain about is bugs. ;D
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i dont know what an sdk is, but i think its something to do with adding your own ships?
Google is your best friend on the Net!
SDK stands for Software Development Kit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development_kit). It could be just a bunch of documents explaining what's for what AND/OR new stand-alone softwares that help modifying different features of the original software.
For example, this is the guide to creating a skin for FireFox: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Creating_a_Skin_for_Firefox
It's only documents. Required softwares are Java and Image editors of your choice.
ShipSim SDK would have to be some sort of stand-alone software that allows developers to modify the dynamics and texturing of each ship and convert their 3D models (made in 3DS Max, GMAX, etc.) into game models. All that, plus some documents explaining how to do these things and what the game limits are.
SDK has nothing to do with game performance. Does not alter frame rate. Does not make the game look better or worse. In fact, SDK is useless to normal users. You don't need FireFox SDK to browse the net. You need it to creat extentions and skins. Likewise, you don't need the ShipSim SDK to play the game. You need it to creat ships or scenery.
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Perhaps, Pjotr, you could sort out some of the confusion by setailing just what it would take for Vstep to implement this SDK in the game. If you already have and it escaped my short attention span then accept my apologies. :D
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USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..
gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
nuthin to ad just air.
Steady there sport! There's no need for stereotyping and bringing people's nationality into this conversation.... If you've got a reasonable argument, make your point, don't insult people. :)
Keep it civil and relevant mate. ;)
Cheers,
Larse
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I think he was just being a bit sarcastic and meant it as a joke. ::)
Funny, I've always had problems with my old American mate about this sarcasm thing. For instance, I think the commentators on Hot Dog Eating contest meant exactly what they said when they said it was "the greatest moment in the history of American sports! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqaX9HmQgw)" :P :P Danno, my mate, on the other hand says they were being sarcastic. A colleagues of mine blames caffeine overdose and says they shouldn't have downed the whole coffee flask!!!
It must be a cultural thing. I think us, Europeans, take sarcasm less seriously than you do. We think of it as a bad joke. You think of it as criticism. Or maybe I shouldn't have had too much coffee tonight! Whatever. I'm off to bed!
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Cheers for that KPD, ;)
No bother! It's a done deal. :)
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I think he was just being a bit sarcastic and meant it as a joke. ::)
Funny, I've always had problems with my old American mate about this sarcasm thing. For instance, I think the commentators on Hot Dog Eating contest meant exactly what they said when they said it was "the greatest moment in the history of American sports! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqaX9HmQgw)" :P :P Danno, my mate, on the other hand says they were being sarcastic. A colleagues of mine blames caffeine overdose and says they shouldn't have downed the whole coffee flask!!!
It must be a cultural thing. I think us, Europeans, take sarcasm less seriously than you do. We think of it as a bad joke. You think of it as criticism. Or maybe I shouldn't have had too much coffee tonight! Whatever. I'm off to bed!
Hm, I realise that Sarcasm isn't the easiest thing to convey in a forum, but I don't think he was being sarcastic personally. I was actually ready to do the same as Cloud and say not to make nationality a factor.
On another note, I personally have always found that our American friends find it hard to distinguish when I'm being sarcastic and when I'm being serious. ;)
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I personally think this conversation could be heading for 'rough seas' (pun intended). Maybe we should get back on-topic eh ;)
Regards.
DJM.
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Yes please. Main topic. Hot Dog eating contest! :P
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Not only am I disappointed, I'm also shocked. Shocked to think that any Game/Sim Company can be this nieave. One only has to look to game/sims like Silent Hunter III/IV to see what the community can and will do with a ship sim type game/sim. Not only did Ubisoft refuse to release their promised SDK/MDK to the community as VStep has, they also tried to grab models from the community. Did it work, no not really. So what happened instead you ask?
The community made their own SDK/MDK and went at it with out any input or direction from Ubisoft. End result, many free mods for ppl to d/l and tweak their SHIII. And one mod in particular was so extensive, so well made, so much a "must have" that not only did it exceed 500 000 D/L's, it also made it into many Game Magazines and had rave reviews. To the extent that it was considered Silent Hunter III point 5. This is the power of a truly motivated community.
How do I know, because I was part of "THAT" mod team. We added over 130 new ships, we added around 20 new Aircraft. Made completely new Harbours. Tweaked ALL Vessels to have the "Real Life Mod" (Ship Dynamics - by me). All weapons to have the "LRG Mod". All instruments to work correctly. Made all Radar arry''s move as designed. The list of corrected and addon items is huge, way to long for me to mention here. The amount of time it took to do the mod, 1 year and 3 months. How long did Silent Hunter III last from release date ? Its still being played and Sold today, near on 5 years after its release.
So it all comes down to this, either VStep has some input in to their own future (Sales, which lets face it is what its all about for VStep) or the community will eventually do it all by themselves with NO input or semi control by VStep. The choice is yours, not mine.
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Unfortunately, everything is hard coded in SS08. Even the damn XML files aren't editable. That'd why I think unless VSTEP releases some sort of guide (not an extensive SDK; just some simple documents and a file editor/converter), there cannot be any community work done at all. Of course, people can design a 3D model and map it with their own textures. But that's as far as it goes. If they want their work to be installed on the game, then we're back to square one with the "subscription" scenario. :-\
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I know I am off topic but what is a good modeling program for makeing ships for the game. ???
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I know I am off topic but what is a good modeling program for makeing ships for the game. ???
Sorry to say the most expensive are the best. 3D Max!
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How do I know, because I was part of "THAT" mod team. We added over 130 new ships, we added around 20 new Aircraft. Made completely new Harbours. Tweaked ALL Vessels to have the "Real Life Mod" (Ship Dynamics - by me). All weapons to have the "LRG Mod". All instruments to work correctly. Made all Radar arry''s move as designed. The list of corrected and addon items is huge, way to long for me to mention here. The amount of time it took to do the mod, 1 year and 3 months. How long did Silent Hunter III last from release date ? Its still being played and Sold today, near on 5 years after its release.
So it all comes down to this, either VStep has some input in to their own future (Sales, which lets face it is what its all about for VStep) or the community will eventually do it all by themselves with NO input or semi control by VStep. The choice is yours, not mine.
im a frequent Kaleun in SH3,
i didnt bought the SH4 yet due to, that i think SH3 with the Grey wolf pack ad-on and the commander tool and the mod-install program are the best...they dont give out the SDK also..and for good reason;
Willi Benz as profile name ,maybe we can start a wolfpack someday with it..
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For those of us who have heard for a minimum of a year how there WILL be an SDK in the "new" version,
and who are perfectly aware that Virtual Sailor has had this function for some time ,
the same old song and dance just doesnt cut it anymore. indeed the 2008 reportedly doesnt even have a mission editor yet.
bottom line -
in the old forum techinical problems were often left unanswered. people like myself found themselves answering numerous "help me" posts on a daily basis.
moderators spend more time beating down "repetitive posts" than actually bothering to help.
despite insisting this is a simulation, far more time is devoted to eye candy.
does it really matter if i can read the inscription on the statue of liberty ?
wonder how much that costs...but hey lets not worry about an sdk despite repeted promises.
rather, lets have the NVDG or whatever they are called this week , come up with hundreds of ideas start numerous projects , and more or less jerk around and waste the time and efforts of some very talented people who were willing to help.
i recall you guys repeatedly blamed the users publicly,
( its your graphics card, its your ram , THATS why you cant switch environments without a crash)
while denying KNOWN issues that were the actual problem. :-X
maybe if you werent in such a rush to put out a new product every 2 months ,
people like myself would actually believe that whatever you promise in "the patch" will actually occur.
Instead , i just dont believe a dang thing you say anymore.
this from someone who put in hours upon hours of beta testing / mission writing for expansion pack.
from loyalty to casual disregard.
good luck !
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I think you are being a little unfair here...
1. Moderators- have you actually looked through the forum at the help and guidance offered? I think not.
2. I'm not aware of any help requests being ignored. Can you please point these out and we moderators will look at any errors we are making?
3. Apparently good graphics that take advantage of modern graphics cards are desired by us users.
4. Does the NVDG change its name every week? It seems to still be the same as it was when I first saw it.
5. At the risk of upsetting you... If you DON'T have the minimum spec computer it WON'T work. This is not 'blaming' anyone... It's common sense and the simple truth. Sorry.
6. Vstep releases new software every 2 months? Great! I look forward to Ship Sim 2008 and 3/4
Look, I don't get paid by Vstep to moderate (none of us do) and my opinions are my own. I have my criticisms of the software, just like anyone else. But if you aren't happy with it why don't you make some constructive criticism. WHAT do you want to see change/added?
I for one am very disappointed that there isn't a SDK. But I bought 08 KNOWING that it wasn't included. If I had bought the CD and it stated there was a SDK I would be agreeing with you 100%. But it didn't. So I'm not.
Regards
Stuart
[/quote]
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when the emperor ostrich is wearing new clothes AND
sticking its head in the sand
there is no point in attempting reason.
:-*
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when the emperor ostrich is wearing new clothes AND
sticking its head in the sand
there is no point in attempting reason.
:-*
My sentiments exactly. But nevertheless, maybe you aren't beyond help. Explain to me why I'm wrong, if you will?
Stuart
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mmm ram and such
i wonder what the computer specifications of Palindromeria are...
sry to intervene but i still think this sdk isnt worth zilch at the moment due to the fact the whole sim isnt completely done,
i stopt with 2008 a.t.m ..
i wait for the patch+multiplayer...
and then i have a better grounded opinion..
its useless to say its not worth the wait to point fingers yet.
btw can we have a spellchecker cuss my english is like charcoal. sry.
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mmm ram and such
i wonder what the computer specifications of Palindromeria are...
sry to intervene but i still think this sdk isnt worth zilch at the moment due to the fact the whole sim isnt completely done,
i stopt with 2008 a.t.m ..
i wait for the patch+multiplayer...
and then i have a better grounded opinion..
its useless to say its not worth the wait to point fingers yet.
btw can we have a spellchecker cuss my english is like charcoal. sry.
I don't really use SDK's, so this would be kind of a 'non-starter' for me, but I guess some people would love the idea of it ;)
I am also looking forward to Multiplayer, can't wait to sail with the friends I've made here on the forums ;D
LOL @ Charcoal (your English seems fine to me ;)). Believe me, I've seen worse English......even from people who have English as a FIRST language....shocking eh :o
Regards.
DJM.
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USA bash Netherlands over and over for a SDK..
gettin tyred of the same ol USA wants this, USA wants that...
nuthin to ad just air.
I thought it was a VStep customer complaning about a feature that was promised and not provided.
The USA bash Netherlands line tells of your politics and nothing else.
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I thought it was a VStep customer complaning about a feature that was promised and not provided.
The USA bash Netherlands line tells of your politics and nothing else.
fingerpointing are your thoughts...not mine...
we build boats...u only sail them..
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Perhaps we could stop this Netherlands Vs U.S. arguement...?
We're all supposed to be friends...
Stu