Topic: [video] How to handle the Red Eagle. (Read 28258 times)

Sam · « **on:** July 11, 2007, 16:57:43 »

A lot of people are having troubble handling the Red Eagle beceaus they don't know how the VSP (Voith Schneider Propulsion) works.

That is why I started this topic, any comments are welcome.

On this image you can see the centre console of the red eagle.
It has 4 indicators and 4 wheels.

On the Red Eagle there is one VSP in the front and one in the back.
This makes the ship extremely manouverable.

If you turn one of the direction wheels, the direction indicator allso starts turning. If the the direction indicator of the front VSP points to the right, than the ship will turn to the left.

I hope everything becomes clear in this short video.
Keep an eye on the indicators!
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=c6E6zhExBBU (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=c6E6zhExBBU)

adamano · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2007, 17:12:26 »

Thank You So Much

Captain Davies · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2007, 17:34:58 »

Well that definetly makes sense to me, but I find it odd that when you want to rotate the propellors 180 degrees, you have to rotate the wheels 360 degrees. And when yu want to rotate the propellors 90 degrees you have to rotate the wheels 180 degres.

Sam · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2007, 17:58:56 »

I wonder the same, maybe on the original it is like that.

UUUUUHHHHHH · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2007, 18:21:12 »

nice video

Ship Sim · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2007, 18:57:05 »

Thank for the veido. Was alot of help.

RockingMadDog · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2007, 19:37:01 »

thats alot of wheels!! lol

J3nsen · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2007, 22:10:36 »

Really nice

Gona need this wehn i get the game in my post, about 3days

sadsid (â€ 2016) · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2007, 23:30:36 »

thanks come in handy when game comes 3days

StewartM · « **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:50:31 »

Hi folks, I don't know if this has been deliberate or not, but the way the Red Eagle VSP controls work on the simulator is not the same as on the real thing.

The 2 wheels marked 'Direction Wheels' only alter thrust from Port to Starboard they do not alter it from Ahead to Astern. The 2 wheels marked 'Throttle Wheels' alter thrust from Ahead to Astern. Normally, they are linked together, but for certain situations you can operate them separately. This, incidentally, was what led to her sister's little bump at Southampton.

Engine 'Throttle Control' is not really an issue here as the engines in VSP vessels usually run at constant speed, all you are doing is altering the amount of movement of the blades on each VSP to give desired amount of thrust, anything from 0 % Ahead to 100 % Ahead, 0% to 100 % to Port etc etc. However, in these ships case one of 4 engine speeds can be selected by means of buttons.

Perhaps this could be changed in the first Fix Pack as I believe it would make her easier to control.

A nice little interactive simulator of how a VSP works can be found at

http://www.voith-turbo.com/545950.htm

Here is a link to the MAIB Report on Red Falcon's bump. As one of the main causes was the VSP Ahead / Astern controls being in Independent Mode rather than Synchronous, you can read more about how her controls work and so it is relevant to this thread.

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Red%20Falcon.pdf

Cheers, Stewart.

Sam · « **Reply #10 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:10:07 »

Hum, I allso was wondering or the controls where on the real vessel like this.

Beceaus on a VSP tugboat they are totally different like the one in the game.

Thanks for the information!

muns · « **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:22:00 »

Nice video.

I believe on the real "Red Eagle" normal steerage is performed using the rear VSP, the forward VSP is normally set to provide froward propultion. In this manor the vessel acts like it has a rudder.

I will try and find out if the thrust direction wheels need two revolutions for a complete 360 rotation of thrust.

LucAtC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2007, 14:10:46 »

Hello,
From this citation (Red Falcon.pdf , page 15)
cit "Each console had four hand wheels (Figures 2 and 5), two on the top, which provided the steering input (transverse pitch component) for each unit, and two on the console side, which provided the longitudinal pitch component. On the top of the console were four associated analogue dials, two to indicate blade pitch and, therefore, thrust, and two to indicate the direction of thrust"
one can derive that the direction of thrust of one particular VSP is dependent of the two corresponding wheels, one on the side for the longitudinal pitch component and the other on top of the console for the transverse component?
Indeed, from the demo, the direction of the thrust of a particular VSP is determined by the combination of the rudder pitch and of the driving pitch.

In the game, the side "throttle" controls the intensity of the thrust whichever the direction, the wheel controlling its direction.
Which one of both is correct? Or is there still another way to understand these controls?
Hints?
Regards,
Luc

Berger · « **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2007, 16:22:37 »

Really nice video, Sam

Season · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2007, 00:31:56 »

Helped me alot. Thank you.

Master Captain · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2007, 00:49:08 »

ok, now i get it, i couldn't even get the Red Eagle to move

now i understand. KM

pigdog · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2007, 14:47:51 »

It seems that the controls for the Red Eagle are all a** about face.

On the real Red Eagle basically which ever direction you turn any given wheel the vessel moves in that direction.

For instance, if you are underway and turn the steering control wheel furthest away from you to the right the bow will turn to the right (Stbd) if you turn the steering control closest to you to the right the stern will swing to port as if you were using a conventional wheel and rudder.

The wheels on the side of the console control your ahead and astern motion/speed as somebody else mentioned in a previous post, it would be great if they could sort it out in a patch or something and maybe add the bridge wing controls too.

LucAtC · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2007, 19:05:55 »

So it looks like Sam

was quite right, and that the simulation is correct only

for one of the consoles. Ergonomically speaking, it is also better

than the explanations in the BAIM report.
Of course, the interactive simulator is interesting, but this example precludes sideways movements. No wonder, of course, this tug has no bow and stern VSP, like Red Eagle.
It just remains to correct the "rear" console and making the manoeuvring characteristics fully symmetrical to put everything to right.
Thank you pigdog, all is clear now..

pigdog · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2007, 12:19:35 »

It would be really good if this can be fixed with a patch or if anybody knows how to change the values within the red Eagle folder to enable the correct handling that would be good.

So that the contols on the side of the console adjust your speed and ahead and astern motion.

Steering control closest to you does the opposite to what it does now.

The steering control furthest away from you is correct but the direction indicator is upside down the needle should point towards you when in the 0 pitch/midships position.

AlexKall · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2007, 12:47:35 »

Geat! Thanks alot!

What was your location on the last bit of training?

Sam · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2007, 15:01:21 »

I the Isle terminal in the Solent.

AlexKall · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2007, 18:59:22 »

Thank you!

Kevinmcg_ships · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2007, 22:49:19 »

Hi folks,

After much experimenting and with help of the video on You Tube , I did a couple of hour's free roaming in the Solent with Red Eagle and finally sussed out the controls. Hope this will help until the patch fix arrives.

Kev

HOW TO STEER MV RED EAGLE

Full Ahead

Both rudder set to 0^o (Zero degree).
Both throttle levers â€œAheadâ€

Full Astern

Both rudder set to 180^o in the Wheelhouse (45^o on the outside view wheels)
Both throttle levers â€œAheadâ€

Sideways

Both rudders set to 90^o in the Wheelhouse (22^o on the outside view wheels)
Both throttle levers â€œAheadâ€

or if you want the vessel to go sideways in the opposite direction:

Both rudder set to 270^o in the Wheelhouse (-22^o on the outside view wheels)
Both throttle levers â€œAheadâ€

AND NOW FOR THE PARTY TRICKâ€¦â€¦..

To do a 360 degree on-the-spot spin

First rudder set to 270^o in the Wheelhouse (-22^o on the outside view wheels)
Second rudder set to 90^o (22^o on the outside view wheels)
Both throttle levers at â€œAheadâ€.

And now watch her spin!

Smoody · « **Reply #23 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:45:57 »

Do you also have the problem that the throttles always go back to 0% when you change the view between outside and the bridge? Is it a bug?

Kevinmcg_ships · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2007, 17:10:16 »

Hi Smoody,

Quote from: Smoody on July 19, 2007, 08:45:57

Do you also have the problem that the throttles always go back to 0% when you change the view between outside and the bridge? Is it a bug?

No, I do not have the problem with the throttles going back to 0% when changing the view. The only time the throttles go back to 0% is when I've hit the UP or DOWN arrow keys.

If you still have this problem then maybe this is something that you would need to post in the Technical Support forum?

Kev

Author Topic: [video] How to handle the Red Eagle. (Read 28258 times)

Ship Sim