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There are numerouse topics, and 1000´s of pots regarding the current state of SEE.
The circle of blame and somewhat endless discussions between forum members and moderators are building up!

Personally, and hopefully speaking for many, the core thing and basic information i think we deserve are:

When buying the Game from SHIPSIM.COM, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.

Belive, if VSTEP would have declared the status, the reason, and facts involved, asking for our patient officially, most would settle with that, and as devoted SIPSIM users, we would gladly assist to develop the game! Instead now and noted from endles discussions, there is VSTEP, the puplischers, roumers, non confirmed information, etc, etc. Why wasent this information given eralier. I though i bought a finnished product.
Now moderators make endles efforts to blame publishers, and due dates......

Currently, many buyers throw out the game, and wont return, just by core anger!
(How many have bought the game who will newer visit the forum, and now belive VSTEP are amatures and SSE are rubbish??)

The cards on the table would be enough for me. Then i would wait for months and months for patches, no probs! Just declare the facts! After all, i have spent EUR 40 on a product listed as a finnished game! Now it turnes out as not to be!

[freeciv]

   I agree 100%. They could have stated there are some bugs and other issues before you purchased. When I buy a game (or anything for that matter) I expect it to be a finished product.

[REXXX]

I TOTALY AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU!

[Mad_Fred]

  I agree 100%. They could have stated there are some bugs and other issues before you purchased. When I buy a game (or anything for that matter) I expect it to be a finished product.

I personally don't, because of a cupboard full of games that are at least 80% buggy and unfinished in V1.0 and that mostly have had multiple patches to fix problems, sometimes major ones. Then there's the ones I can't even run but that they don't take back cause you can't exchange software after you buy it beacuse they think you've already copied it and 'stolen it' if you do. And then there's the ones that never even got patched, which are quite a few in my collection.

To me, from this experienced with so many games (300+ easily), bugs and patches are a fact of life. And it's not just games. It's even worse with more 'important' software, normally.

Plus, the fact that some features were at first deliberately not included, doesn't make it unfinished. If the initial plan is like that, than that is 'not as complete as the customer would have liked', but not unfinished. Some things are not included yet, that can be regarded as such, but not all of them. Expansions done later are because customers have requested certain things to return. And Vstep listens and complies in many of the cases, so far.

In an ideal world there would have been enough time and less issues left and less unforseen problems that coulnd't be fixed in time or popped up after release, but alas. Didn't work out like that. And that's - unfortunatly - not uncommon. But it's too late to take it back anyway.. and like it or not, you don't put 'this product is faulty' on your webiste. I have had a TV break down after a few weeks, I have had a hard drive die on me way too soon, I have had problems with the new router that I got with my new internet connection, I could go on.. all these products were faulty, buggy if you will, and needed repair, which took weeks and months even, yet none of them were advertised as such either... it's everywhere..  unfortunatly.

Plus, a lot of people regard things as bugs, that are not always truly bugs. But that's a whole other ballgame.

Not saying anything to make it seem okay, I too was disappointed with certain aspects, and I am not trying to say 'the others have it too, so it's not a bad thing that this one has it', I'm just saying...  with games, the reality is a bit different than 'nearly each game that comes out is normally perfect'. Far from it.. very far.

At least this developer is doing something about it, and listening to their customers and working very hard to get as much fixed in as short a time as possible, and I assure you, they are doing overtime, all the time.

That's more than I can say for some titles that I ended up using as coasters..  



Regards,
Fred

[Shipaddict]

You can sort it out if you press "Modify" on the top right of your post, then simply take out your comments from the quote box.

[Markus97]

I personally don't, because of a cupboard full of games that are at least 80% buggy and unfinished in V1.0 and that mostly have had multiple patches to fix problems, sometimes major ones. Then there's the ones I can't even run but that they don't take back cause you can't exchange software after you buy it beacuse they think you've already copied it and 'stolen it' if you do. And then there's the ones that never even got patched, which are quite a few in my collection.

To me, from this experienced with so many games (300+ easily), bugs and patches are a fact of life. And it's not just games. It's even worse with more 'important' software, normally.

Plus, the fact that some features were at first deliberately not included, doesn't make it unfinished. If the initial plan is like that, than that is 'not as complete as the customer would have liked', but not unfinished. Some things are not included yet, that can be regarded as such, but not all of them. Expansions done later are because customers have requested certain things to return. And Vstep listens and complies in many of the cases, so far.

In an ideal world there would have been enough time and less issues left and less unforseen problems that coulnd't be fixed in time or popped up after release, but alas. Didn't work out like that. And that's - unfortunatly - not uncommon. But it's too late to take it back anyway.. and like it or not, you don't put 'this product is faulty' on your webiste. I have had a TV break down after a few weeks, I have had a hard drive die on me way too soon, I have had problems with the new router that I got with my new internet connection, I could go on.. all these products were faulty, buggy if you will, and needed repair, which took weeks and months even, yet none of them were advertised as such either... it's everywhere..  unfortunatly.

Plus, a lot of people regard things as bugs, that are not always truly bugs. But that's a whole other ballgame.

Not saying anything to make it seem okay, I too was disappointed with certain aspects, and I am not trying to say 'the others have it too, so it's not a bad thing that this one has it', I'm just saying...  with games, the reality is a bit different than 'nearly each game that comes out is normally perfect'. Far from it.. very far.

At least this developer is doing something about it, and listening to their customers and working very hard to get as much fixed in as short a time as possible, and I assure you, they are doing overtime, all the time.

That's more than I can say for some titles that I ended up using as coasters..  



Regards,
Fred

Well Fred, you have work hard, I know. V-STEP have work hard. But, V-STEP should made a better plan.

First, the demo not came... To ALL games the demo can BEFORE the resale date. And all changes, all date changes. NEVER that Microsoft should do that. And when the game finally came, the game is uncompleted. The good thing was that I pre-order the download version, otherwise I have to wait one mouth more before the game came.

So, V-STEP, please do a better plan next time!

There are numerouse topics, and 1000´s of pots regarding the current state of SEE.
The circle of blame and somewhat endless discussions between forum members and moderators are building up!

Personally, and hopefully speaking for many, the core thing and basic information i think we deserve are:

When buying the Game from SHIPSIM.COM, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.

Belive, if VSTEP would have declared the status, the reason, and facts involved, asking for our patient officially, most would settle with that, and as devoted SIPSIM users, we would gladly assist to develop the game! Instead now and noted from endles discussions, there is VSTEP, the puplischers, roumers, non confirmed information, etc, etc. Why wasent this information given eralier. I though i bought a finnished product.
Now moderators make endles efforts to blame publishers, and due dates......

Currently, many buyers throw out the game, and wont return, just by core anger!
(How many have bought the game who will newer visit the forum, and now belive VSTEP are amatures and SSE are rubbish??)

The cards on the table would be enough for me. Then i would wait for months and months for patches, no probs! Just declare the facts! After all, i have spent EUR 40 on a product listed as a finnished game! Now it turnes out as not to be!

And yes, I TOTALLY AGREE!

/Markus

[marcstrat]

Hoy,
I think this will not happen again,this was a very rough start from the beginning.
Many have said their feelings against it,since the last week of august,when hell broke loose on the forum.
I think its better now,to look forward.Because on the end everything will be repaired.
Offcource it will take some time.Looking behind is the same as standing still.It will never benefit the game in general.
Marc

[Mad_Fred]

First, the demo not came... To ALL games the demo can BEFORE the resale date.

Simply not true, and a lot of games don't have a demo at all.

And all changes, all date changes. NEVER that Microsoft should do that.

You probably haven't followed those releases then. It's pretty normal too to be honest, but often they don't publicly give out expected dates in an earlier stage, but they do change.. A LOT, in software development land.

The good thing was that I pre-order the download version, otherwise I have to wait one mouth more before the game came.

That makes no sense either, there were people that received their boxed version before the download customers, and you can't hold a developer responsible for the mail services when a delivery is late, and a month, it was not.

Fair criticism is fine, but making up things is just silly.  

[saltydog]

When buying the Game, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.

When was the last time you bought a game with a sticker: "Sorry, this game has bugs, faults and errors"..?    Get real..
It's like Fred says, many games have problems in the beginning..I salute VStep that they are working hard to fix them..

[Markus97]

Fair criticism is fine, but making up things is just silly.  

Well, we may feel different but you don't start to criticize me!


/Markus

[Mad_Fred]

I was stating factual information (the stuff in red) to counter your made up facts, and if that is critisizing you, then so be it. Criticism isn't necessarily a bad word, you know. The smiley indicated that the word silly is to be taken lightly.

I see your attitude is still the same though, which is a pity.

But if you make such statements, be prepared to get such a reply. Simple as that. 'Feeling' doesn't come into it. I could feel that the sky is green, that doesn't make it so. I could yell whatever I like and put it in bold print and say it's a fact, but if it's not true, it's not true. Period.

People named Markus97 are ALWAYS wrong.  <- like that.  Now you try to counter that without critisizing me, cause I really feel it is so. 

(that was a joke, in case you don't realise it) 

Fred

[Markus97]

I was stating factual information (the stuff in red) to counter your made up facts, and if that is critisizing you, then so be it. Criticism isn't necessarily a bad word, you know. The smiley indicated that the word silly is to be taken lightly.

I see your attitude is still the same though, which is a pity.

But if you make such statements, be prepared to get such a reply. Simple as that. 'Feeling' doesn't come into it. I could feel that the sky is green, that doesn't make it so. I could yell whatever I like and put it in bold print and say it's a fact, but if it's not true, it's not true. Period.

People named Markus97 are ALWAYS wrong.  <- like that.  Now you try to counter that without critisizing me, cause I really feel it is so.  

(that was a joke, in case you don't realise it)  

Fred

 

I understand, but I'm VERY disappointed at V-STEP. Maybe you know that, but now you all know that!

Some people have actually been waiting for over a month on the game, (and that's UNACCEPTABLE!!!). There is a thread called "The game hasn't come ", read it!


/Markus

[Mad_Fred]

I understand that you're disappointed, and you have a right to be!

And yes, there might be some singularities with the delivery, but that can have many reasons. That's not something you can plan ahead for, really. Just.. well. Bad luck, perhaps, is the phrase.  

But, that´s why Vstep has offered the download version to those people that are still waiting for their box.

I´ve had things ´go missing´ in the mail too. Who is to say someone didn´t steal it? Or something outside Vstep´s control, like that.

[Markus97]

I understand that you're disappointed, and you have a right to be!

And yes, there might be a singularity with the delivery, but that can have many reasons. That's not something you can plan ahead for, really. Just.. well. Bad luck, perhaps, is the phrase.  

Yes, and I hope this never will happen again... V-STEP made good games, but there are VERY bad when they changes things... They don't tell us things!! VERY BAD!! 
For example: On 2nd August this year many fans refreshed the main page (included me). Minute after minute and nothing happened. And 1½ hour AFTER the pre-order should start, nobody could enter the site. And 5-7 hours later V-STEP changed the date to 9th August.

How do you explain that, Fred?


/Markus

[Mad_Fred]

Why does if have to be explained? Why is it such a big deal? I mean.. you got your order in, didn't you?

People sitting around refreshing websites the whole time, to be at the very start of a certain event that lasts for weeks on end and gives everyone plenty of opportunity to pre-order, might just be the reason.

All the refreshing and all the impatient visitors might have crashed the server and thus you yourself are the actual reason the date changed!  

Not that it is what happened.. but... think about it..    


Seriously.. I translated the first announcement about the pre-orders into Dutch, right after Frank announced it on the English boards, and it said the 9th, and not the 2nd. So maybe I'm missing something, but it was the 9th from the get-go, I think.

Maybe again a rumour that took on a life of it's own? It wouldn't be the first.

[freeciv]

      Guys, Lets get back on topic to whats wrong with SSE, instead of whats wrong with V-Step and the
postal service   

[Markus97]

Why does if have to be explained? Why is it such a big deal? I mean.. you got your order in, didn't you?

People sitting around refreshing websites the whole time, to be at the very start of a certain event that lasts for weeks on end and gives everyone plenty of opportunity to pre-order, might just be the reason.

All the refreshing and all the impatient visitors might have crashed the server and thus you yourself are the actual reason the date changed!  

Not that it is what happened.. but... think about it..    


Seriously.. I translated the first announcement about the pre-orders into Dutch, right after Frank announced it on the English boards, and it said the 9th, and not the 2nd. So maybe I'm missing something, but it was the 9th from the get-go, I think.

Maybe again a rumour that took on a life of it's own? It wouldn't be the first.

The point is that V-STEP don't tell us fans when things happens during a LONG time, maybe for 4-8 hours. THAT'S my point!


/Markus

[Markus97]

      Guys, Lets get back on topic to whats wrong with SSE, instead of whats wrong with V-Step and the
postal service   

The game is UNCOMPLETED, that's wrong! Many bugs, some missions crash or have bugs, etc. Read "Bug fix list" if you want to know what's wrong with SSE.


/Markus

[Mad_Fred]

Which hours are you talking about?

The ones where you were waiting, on the 2nd of august, for a pre-order that was never even to start on that day?
The announcement about pre orders was done on the 4th, about the pre order starting on the 9th.

the 2nd of August does not come into it, then. And the announcement wasn't even made, let alone changed.

And surely you don't except Vstep to guess that someone that is misinformed is looking at their website on the wrong day and might be ticked off that nothing is happening?  That would be VERY far fetched.

Here's the announcement:

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19481.0.html

And there's nothing else to it. If you spent the 2nd of august waiting for it, then you made a mistake, simple as that. Don't blame them for it then, if you are not informed or take rumours to be true and not wait for the official announcement. That's not their fault, is it? They told the fans loud and clear, on all boards in all languages and on the site and in the newsletter, what would happen and when. So again, your claims are simply untrue.


And yes freeciv, let's! 



Fred.

[saltydog]

There's a topic..? 

[Mad_Fred]

Yes, and it was a sticky too. And that should normally pop up for people that know how a forum works, as an unread post. And if you're waiting for an announcement, where better to look than in the FAQ & Announcements board, where it could have been found manually.
The newsletter and main website compliment that aswell, as do the many posts where people refer to it.  

Maybe come next game, we'll go door to door too.  

[Markus97]

Which hours are you talking about?

The ones where you were waiting, on the 2nd of august, for a pre-order that was never even to start on that day?
The announcement about pre orders was done on the 4th, about the pre order starting on the 9th.

the 2nd of August does not come into it, then. And the announcement wasn't even made, let alone changed.

And surely you don't except Vstep to guess that someone that is misinformed is looking at their website on the wrong day and might be ticked off that nothing is happening?  That would be VERY far fetched.

Here's the announcement:

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19481.0.html

And there's nothing else to it. If you spent the 2nd of august waiting for it, then you made a mistake, simple as that. Don't blame them for it then, if you are not informed or take rumours to be true and not wait for the official announcement. That's not their fault, is it? They told the fans loud and clear, on all boards in all languages and on the site and in the newsletter, what would happen and when. So again, your claims are simply untrue.


And yes freeciv, let's!  



Fred.

The pre-order should start 9 o'clock. This "Message" was Replayed on 13:19:04... So what hours I talking about?

THESE!!!


/Markus

[freeciv]

There's a topic..?  

 Well I thought there was...  
 

[Markus97]

 Well I thought there was...  
 

Hehe, I and Fred just "talk", nothing more... 


/Markus

[Ballast]

The pre-order should start 9 o'clock. This "Message" was Replayed on 13:19:04... So what hours I talking about?

THIS!!!


/Markus

Who says pre-order should start at 9 o'clock? August 2nd was brought by a member and was never confirmed by VSTEP in an announcement.

Even if the pre-order was scheduled for last year, the release date was set for August 29th. The latter is something that really matters right?