Pride of Rotterdam - Steering

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[Osprey]

I have the latest ship sim version (1.4.2) with NH ships etc.

Since upgrading some weeks ago I have noted that the POR steering (rudders) is severely degraded.  I did a search, believing someone else mentioned this problem, but did not come up with a discussion about it - let alone any suggestions or solutions.

Can anyone comment?

[The Captain]

I also find the steering for the POR to be a bit late. When I turn the wheel, the ship starts to turn in about 10 seconds. Then, it is hard to turn the other way once you find that you are turning too fast one way.

[sadsid (†2016)]

The p.o.r. dynamic were made more realistic with the patch 1.4.2
                                                                              Eric

[Capt. Le Velle]

it is realistic but i like stuff realistic

[mvsmith]

In addition to her large moment of inertia, which makes her slow to build angular momentum—and just as slow to lose it, there is the amount of time it takes the steering engine to move her rudder. As an example, it took a full 30 seconds to put Titanic’s rudder hard over. That is why, in the 40 seconds between first sighting the berg and impact, nothing could have been done to save her.
One must learn the steering characteristics of each ship by actually maneuvering her and paying attention to how she responds. On the night that Titanic struck the berg, I doubt that it occurred to anyone on the bridge to complain to Harland & Wolff, or to Andrews, about her turning.
For any large ship, you should keep an eye on the ROT, and know at what value you should meet her to produce the desired heading change.

[NathanC]

I copied the 1.4 PoR dynamics file and pasted it when i had 1.4.2 - i can tell you the PoR has completely unrealistic steering in 1.4.2. VSTEP should not of changed it 

No, the 1.4.2 PoR is not more realistic, and i will show you this in video when i travel on the ship in September   

For example, turning the PoR into the Beneluxhaven - in real life the ship had to steer around an oil tanker which was being pushed into berth and did it quickly with ease, where in Multiplayer i watch someone turn and plough into the farside wall becuase the response time is dreadful. Nobody will believe me though, just take VSTEPs word that it's more realistic.

[pauljanaway1]

yes i got anyoy with the turning or more lack of it in the 1.4.2 patch and as i have said beofre in 1.4.2 titanic turns much faster than the por

[NathanC]

It can be easily solved - Re install 1.4 and copy the Pride of Rotterdam "DYN" file. Then install 1.4.2 and replace the new "DYN" file with the 1.4 one you copied. Now you will have the 1.4 PoR in 1.4.2. The member who told me how to do this had thumbs up from VSTEP before doing it.

[mvsmith]

I can’t speak to the realism of the various versions of POR. I’ve never been on her, and don’t often do missions with her unless I need to troubleshoot them—preferring, instead, to watch paint dry.
However, Nathan makes a good point: They should get serious about nailing down realistic dynamics for her. Also, he has pointed out the unreliability of “fastest” mission times. By changing DYN files for POR, you can achieve faster times in missions with POR.
Marty

[ferryenthusiast]

I have had conversations with Jacob (groennegaard) and he has given me a list of questions to pose to the bridge crew of the Pride of Rotterdam in September when I am onboard.  Apparently P&O failed to provide detailed information as to how the ship handles and as such VSTEP are just guessing.  So although I tend to only use the ferries in the game, I don't hold it against them (too much).

I will do my best to obtain the information he has asked for and let him have it so that VSTEP will hopefully be able to make the POR more reaslistic.  If I fail in September, then I have a meeting at head office at Dover in October prior to visits to all the ships in the fleet between October and January so will see what I can do then.  Additionally I am hoping to obtain some Bridge Photos so as to aid this area of development.

I agree it is unrealistic at the moment, but I have replaced my DYN file on the advice from VSTEP until the ship can be made more realistic.  So currently the ship handles ok for me. 

[NathanC]

I have had conversations with Jacob (groennegaard) and he has given me a list of questions to pose to the bridge crew of the Pride of Rotterdam in September when I am onboard.  Apparently P&O failed to provide detailed information as to how the ship handles and as such VSTEP are just guessing.  So although I tend to only use the ferries in the game, I don't hold it against them (too much).

I will do my best to obtain the information he has asked for and let him have it so that VSTEP will hopefully be able to make the POR more reaslistic.  If I fail in September, then I have a meeting at head office at Dover in October prior to visits to all the ships in the fleet between October and January so will see what I can do then.  Additionally I am hoping to obtain some Bridge Photos so as to aid this area of development.

I agree it is unrealistic at the moment, but I have replaced my DYN file on the advice from VSTEP until the ship can be made more realistic.  So currently the ship handles ok for me. 

If you are onboard on September the 25th, i'll see you there 

[Osprey]

This sounds good, but the problems involved for users like me who just can't install and uninstall different versions are great.   I am wondering if the DYN file needed couldn't be simply zipped by someone and placed here... along with a good word about what specific directory to unpack it to....

It can be easily solved - Re install 1.4 and copy the Pride of Rotterdam "DYN" file. Then install 1.4.2 and replace the new "DYN" file with the 1.4 one you copied. Now you will have the 1.4 PoR in 1.4.2. The member who told me how to do this had thumbs up from VSTEP before doing it.

CAn you do this Nathan - or anyone?   The rate of turn in 1.4.2 is simply far too slow for a ship like her - better that it be too fast as in 1.4 in my opinion.

[[RWP]DJM]

Hiya guys

Maybe it's just me, but I love the new dynamics for PoR.  I think they are much better.  A great job in my opinion

Carl.

[Captain Best]

I have the latest ship sim version (1.4.2) with NH ships etc.

Since upgrading some weeks ago I have noted that the POR steering (rudders) is severely degraded.  I did a search, believing someone else mentioned this problem, but did not come up with a discussion about it - let alone any suggestions or solutions.

Can anyone comment?

Did you Installed:¨
ShipSim08
1.4.2
Then NH?

If you did do that. then it would might be the problem. or a Corrupt Install

[pauljanaway1]

i got the old por as i think it turn much better like a moden ship would

[Dave M]

Hiya guys
Maybe it's just me, but I love the new dynamics for PoR.  I think they are much better.  A great job in my opinion
Carl.

Hi Carl,
I'm with you on this. The POR isn't a speed boat and just because someone crashed it into a wall in MP doesn't mean that the ship dynamics are wrong.

Hi NathanC,
If you are not on the bridge when the POR is manouvering then you will not know what was being used to achieve a turn. They could be using the engines to turn or thrusters or just the rudders, unless you can run from both sides of the bows to both sides of the stern in a very quick time then you will not know.
I think that we should wait and see what 'ferryenthusiast' can find out.

As far as I'm concerned I am quite happy with the way she performs now. 

Regards, Dave

[groennegaard]

Hi guys 

A brief remark from me as I am at sea (on board DFDS vessel Dana Sirena) and my watch commences in less than an hour (and actually I should be asleep right now  ). Anyway, has anyone tried to compare the manouevering characteristics of PoR to similar vessels? I have done that but the documentation I made for the 1.4 PoR has still to be released by VSTEP.

Raw data reveals that the model of PoR performs better than Dana Sirena and a number of other RO/RO/PAX vessels. Still the pattern of behavior is close to what you see for those other vessels. I'm afraid that it won't get much better than this, but I can assure you that dynamics are a high-priority issue at VSTEP. Much more realism are planned for the next version.

Regards
Jacob

[NathanC]

I do know that when the PoR leaves the terminal at Europoort the crew only use the Left prop and Bow thruster. I was watching this happen and the same technique in the game gives a much slower turnaround from the terminal.

All those who think the 1.4.2 PoR is just not good enough, i have attached the 1.4 DYN file

My Computer > Local Disk > Program Files > VSTEP > ShipSim2008 > Actors > Objects > Pride of Rotterdam > Paste this file in there and delete the old*

*(Recomended you keep a backup of the old DYN)

[ferryenthusiast]

One thing that needs to be remembered when comparing the departure from Rotterdam, is the fact that the ship still has a very strong mooring wire (not rope) attached on the stern (starboard side) so that this helps keep the stern in place so the ship can turn around.

This is normally let go when the ship is just past 90 degrees on to the river with her bow starting to clear the moored Stena Line ship berthed opposite.  I remember the ROT was 31 degrees per minute as I had been chatting to the Captain about the game and what rate of turn the ship managed on bow thrust only.  We both commented that the ship settled on this as its ROT that night and he commented that was normal.

As Nathan mentions they do occasionally use the props for assistance in holding the stern in place depending on the wind speed and direction.

The ships are the largest that can serve that berth not only for fitting the berth but also for swinging off the berth on departure.  I did ask why they could simply not swing the stern off the berth and reverse up to where there is more room and turnaround there and apparently the Port Control have categorically said this is not an option.

[NathanC]

I took some pictures of the departure from June, some of you may be interested in them.

Here is the line mentioned in the above post.



Here you can see the Stena Partner docked opposite and the wake from the 2 Bow thrusters.






You can view more of the PoR pictures in the link on my signature.

[Dave M]

Hi NathanC,
Looking at your last photo in the sequence here I would say that besides using the bow thrusters to turn off of the mooring she is using the port engine ahead, (because you can see the wash from it), and the starboard engine astern, (because of the position of the stern in regards to the ramp).

I have just tried that in 'POR leaves Home Port' and achieved a rate of turn of 41 degrees a minute. I couldn't put a cable over to that position but, (by varying the thrust from the main screws), I managed to pin the stern to that post and got that ROT.

But, this topic isn't about manouvering away from a tight spot, it's about steering the POR when she is leaving port or at sea. The thing about any vessel, (tugs excepted because they are about HUGE amounts of thrust in a small vessel), that are larger than a power boat is that you have to think ahead. If you are putting more than 15 degrees of rudder on then there is something wrong, (or you are doing a nightmare mission  ,or it is an emergency situation). In SS08 Version 1.3 you knew that the AI vessels were out to get you,  , and you had to think ahead to avoid them, now, it is hard to tell which ones will avoid you and which ones will ram you  .

I really like the POR's dynamics as they are now.

Regards, Dave

[Kevinmcg_ships]

I liked the old dymanics for PoR and found it very difficult to control the vessel with new dymanics, especially with the steering.

I was so used to PoR's controls prior to 1.4.2 and after when I installed 1.4.2 it was like having to learn how to control PoR all over again and forget the 'old' handling characteristics.

Plus, I didn't really enjoy playing Ocean Star in SS2008 so I just play her in SS2006 instead, as I found it easier to steer/control her (plus I'm familiar with the 'old' dymanics/handling characteristics).

That's one thing which I don't like about upgrades - you sudden find out one of your favourite ships behaves differently from what it was before.

I know people like the game to be as realistic as possible but it's like buying a car and then 6 months later someone decides to replace a completely different engine/tyres/seats/gearbox/steering wheel etc which would kinda make things weird for me cos the car behaves different from what it used to be.

Hope that makes sense to someone!! 

Kev

[Dave M]

Hi Kevin,
To use your example, the POR always felt to me like I had bought a 'Reliant Robin', (a three wheeled car with very hard steering), and it had the handling of a 'Porche'  . Up until now the POR felt like a speedboat, if you turned the wheel then she would answer straight away and if you returned the wheel to zero then there was zero turn when you looked at the 'ROT'. As mentioned earlier, there is weight attached to the POR and when steering it you have to take that into account, I think that the present dynamics show that. It may be different from what you are used to but it is more realistic and more challenging fun, (for me anyway  ).

Regards, Dave

[Traddles]

As a point of interest, one of the most common helm orders on a ships bridge, particularly under pilotage, is "Meet her", frequently followed by "Steady". This means apply helm opposite to the previous order to stop the swing of the vessel and then hold her on course. A good helmsman would know just how much helm he would need to apply to bring about the desired outcome. If you have ever carried a bowl of water you will know that it is quite hard not to spill it. Not a very good comparison but similar in a way. If you have a steady hand you will not spill, if you are a good helmsman you will not overshoot.

Angus.

[Kevinmcg_ships]

Hi Kevin,
To use your example, the POR always felt to me like I had bought a 'Reliant Robin', (a three wheeled car with very hard steering), and it had the handling of a 'Porche'  . Up until now the POR felt like a speedboat, if you turned the wheel then she would answer straight away and if you returned the wheel to zero then there was zero turn when you looked at the 'ROT'. As mentioned earlier, there is weight attached to the POR and when steering it you have to take that into account, I think that the present dynamics show that. It may be different from what you are used to but it is more realistic and more challenging fun, (for me anyway  ).

Regards, Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that, I didn't realise dymanics for PoR were not set properly in the first place, now I understand why this was corrected at a later update.

Kev

p.s. thanks for the bowl of water & PoR analogy, Angus!