Maneuvering small boats with twin engines

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[Stuart2007]

I should think that a people who could invent cricket could come up with something meeting that requirement.

Marty

We did... It's called Polo!

Stu

[mvsmith]

You don’t need to understand Polo, as long as your horse does.
Ramapo Marty

[Stuart2007]

Hi again Marty,
Are you really saying we're all nuts!!! Well I can only speak for myself and in that case you're dead right!

I don't know. I think you are speaking for a LOT of people here...

Stu

[almack]

Russ, I also spent many years freezing my butt off in March and April out on Lake Huron tracking down Salmon. That's one of the reasons I got bigger boats. Rough water when it is snowing, windy and water temperatures of 1C to 5C makes you tend to operate on the cautious side. We ran into a wall of ice one day when the north wind was blowing it down the lake. Also it was before GPS and Loran C so we did a lot of dead reckoning in the fog. I almost ran into the side of a lake freighter one day in the fog as we were running a compass course for home 25 miles out in the lake. What are the chances of that happening? Some days it was very warm and some days it wasn’t. You can likely relate to this.

[RJK]

Are you using GPS now? It's great. I too have spent many hours over the years making for home at a snails pace in the fog using the compass and depth gauge. Not that the GPS helps you go faster as you still have to maintain constant watch for other boats but it's great for plotting and maintaining your course and knowing your exact location.

March has never been a very popular month for boating around here but it used to be the month for the annual smelt run. The walls of the harbor would be lined with dipnetters and the beaches lined with seiners myself included. In the last decade the smelt have all but disappeared along with most of the lake perch.

Russ

[steve149c]

Hi all,

Just wanted to correct a couple of things.

1) All twin screw vessels can turn on the spot, I can manoeurve my ferry at 186m long in real life on the spot with the twin screw, you don't need a bowthruster either

2) The discussion on the Buoyage - this is an old one. Two regions, Region A and Region B. Both regions use the same Cardinal marks, special marks, isolated danger marks and safe water marks. The difference occurs using lateral marks, ie the Port and Starboard channel markers. I was taught when I was Officer cadet, the easiest way (Apologies in advance  ) - The British System (A) is designed for Vessels returning safely home, Region B (America) is for vessel's leaving as they never expected them to return, hehehe. http://www.deck-officer.info/buoyage/ialamap.jpg (http://www.deck-officer.info/buoyage/ialamap.jpg) shows the regions.

Oh by the way it is not that the Brits drive on the wrong side of the road either - because Rule 9 on Narrow Channels states that all vessels will keep to the Starboard side of the channel when entering and leaving port.

Cheers

Steve

[mvsmith]

Steve,
At California Maritime Academy, where bunk-making is a two-semester course, cadets are taught the mnemonic: Red Right Returning. Clearly, if the faculty did not think that they would have much use for that, the time would have been devoted to an extra week on chronometer winding.
On driving in channel, I never claimed you drove on the wrong side, I pointed out that most ships have the wheel in the center, so there was no excuse for British eccentricity there.
Regards,
Marty

[steve149c]

Hi Marty,

Thanks for that response, it got me thinking, so I did so looking around the net. It seems that America didn't have a standardised buoyage system until 1848 (1852 Lighthouse Board), approx 200 years after the UK established their's in 1594 using Trinity House.  Up until this 1848 it seems that most US ports had there own buoys.

I guess we'll never know why it has occured, one of those oddities in History, perhaps it is the same reason why we drie on the left and you on the right lol 

Cheers

Steve

[mvsmith]

Steve,
Considering it took less than a century from our founding to get our act together, I don’t think that was too bad.
The principle need for buoyage was on the Mississippi and her tributaries in early days. Perhaps the first buoy was placed on a navigation hazard on the East bank and was, naturally, painted red by someone not familiar IALA-A.
My other theory is that it was done to confuse the Brits if they ever sailed upriver to burn St. Louis.

Our convention for auto traffic probably followed riverboat convention, which came first.

Marty

[dharl]

Well i heard a rumour about the driving bit.. 

The Romans started "driving" (carts and stuff) on the left of a road and brought that to all countries that they occupied...It apparently stayed like that until Bonapart came to power in France and made evryone change all the countires he had occupied to drive on the right!   Of course us Brits, fighting the French and all kept our left side drivinf bit.   Of course all countries with French influence alsochanged to right hand side to confuse the "dastardly English Roast Beef" should they inviade...

as i said not sure if its true or not, but its what I heard!! 

[Stuart2007]

I heard something like that- Boneyparts was left handed and would always march past his soldiers on the right to salute them. Or something like that.

I think we British need to be even more akward and drive on both sides in no predictable pattern.

EDIT: Sorry. I've just realised. We do.

Stu

[dharl]

You must have met my wife on the road Stu 

[[RWP]DJM]

You must have met my wife on the road Stu 

LOL, you are a brave man indeed, saying something like that

[jskipper]

I think this thread is drifting away from the original subject - let's stick to the subject, or as the Fench say:
revenons a nos moutons.

Some small boats have no rudder at all, they are controlled by changing the direction of the propellors. In Dutch: hek drive - what is the English name for it? So, you can't steer when the engines are idle. The small vessels in ShipSim seem to be of that kind.
When the rudder is placed behind the propellor, its effect is much weaker with no power or in reverse.
I have no experience with really large vessels, but in ShipSim I have no problems maneuvering both small and large vessels. Behaviour seems quite realistic to me. Besides, the really big ships in ShipSim are single engine (except the Titanic). So, what is actually the problem?

[Stuart2007]

Besides, the really big ships in ShipSim are single engine (except the Titanic). So, what is actually the problem?

Pride of Rotterdam...?

Stu

[jskipper]

Pride of Rotterdam  - indeed. I stay corrected. 50% of the big ships are single engine.

Now I've seen the problem! To rotate the "Arie Visser" in place, give 100% reverse on one engine, 80% forward on the other. It stays exectly in place. Forward thrust is apparently more effective. If you give 100% on both engines, the boat will describe a circle with a radius more than one ship length.

[Stuart2007]

That's good. Originally, the thrust 100% astern was the same as 100% ahead. Which we were told by professional sailors was wrong. I must admit I didn't realise it was now correct.

Stu