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Author Topic: Costa Concordia Disaster  (Read 26461 times)

Jake_Savage

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Costa Concordia Disaster
« on: July 21, 2013, 13:06:48 »

With the ongoing trial of Captain Francesco Schettino i want to know who you think is to blame for this.

My personal opinion (after following the story since the disaster) is that Schettino is to blame but many other people are to blame aswell. It is a tradition to do a salute of some islands in the Med and he was only following this tradition. He hit a boulder but how was he to know it was there. the sea depth at the point of collision was more than enough for the draft of the ship.

Who do you think and why??
jake
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Sith Lord

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 16:44:52 »

The Captain for going off the set route it was his fault not the cruiseline.
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Jake_Savage

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 17:17:00 »

Most cruise captains sailing the med to that salute. Was it his fault the Boulder was there? It couldve happened to anyone.
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Traddles

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 19:58:40 »

Hi Jake,
It was quite simply & quite definitely the fault of the Captain. :o ANY stranding like that is ALWAYS the fault of the Captain, he gets paid very well NOT to wreck his ship. Your comments are thus totally superfluous. If it is common practice as you say above to go close to land to "salute", I would really like to know where you got that rubbish comment from!!!! :doh:
Note my signature below, I know what I am talking about, possibly unlike yourself. ::)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 20:00:35 by Traddles »
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Jake_Savage

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 20:31:15 »

My Uncle used to work on the bridge of a cruise ship. He told me it was a historic tradition. The ship he worked on did it every time without crashing. I'm not saying its not his fault I'm just saying its not 100%. I haw also been on cruises that saluted the locals.

Besides if he was 100% to blame how come 5 others have just been charged with manslaughter?
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2013, 20:46:03 »

Ok it may be tradition but he
-went too close to land.
-He didn't have his reading glasses so he relied on someone who didn't really understand charts as it wasn't his job,
-he was told by costa NOT to go close.
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Captain Cadet
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saltydog

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2013, 20:56:36 »

In the end it was entirely the captains responsibility.
He claims the rocks did not show on his chart. They probably didn't because he would have used a small-scale chart. Large-scale charts were not required on the ship as the official route was not intended to be so near to the island.  He should not have risked passing so close by the island without sufficient knowledge of the waters.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 13:56:19 by saltydog »
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2013, 21:19:09 »

In the end it was entirely the captains responsibility.
He claims the rocks did not show on his chart. They probably didn't because he would have used a small-scale chart. Large-scale charts were not required on the ship as the official route was not intended to be so near to the island.  He should not have risked passing so close by the island without sufficient knowledge of the waters.
Yep. He should have a closer scale charts to onboard as the onboard charts would have been so large they wouldn't show smaller stacks which I believed he hit. That has meant that around £1 BILLION has been lost on the vessel and her recovery costs which could still escalate as their not sure she could be lifted safely.
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Captain Cadet
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Jake_Savage

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 22:02:26 »

The wrong charts aren't his fault. And he was told by Costa to be careful in the salute not to not do it.
He should be prosecuted for manslaughter cos it was (unintentional murder). And for abandoning ship but the blame isn't solely with him.
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2013, 23:30:25 »

The wrong charts aren't his fault. And he was told by Costa to be careful in the salute not to not do it.
He should be prosecuted for manslaughter cos it was (unintentional murder). And for abandoning ship but the blame isn't solely with him.
The thing was the person who declared abandon ship (from what I heared) was another captain from another vessel. Not the real captain.
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Captain Cadet
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Jake_Savage

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 07:12:35 »

Schettino was aboutto make the call though.
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 10:18:58 »

Schettino was aboutto make the call though.
Yes but he didn't as he was off the vessel, not onboard!
He was the first person off from what I heared.
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Dannypenguin

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 10:47:44 »

Yes but he didn't as he was off the vessel, not onboard!
He was the first person off from what I heared.

And then he claimed to have 'tripped' into a lifeboat...  ::)

It might be tradition to do that salute but I bet no ship has ever done that salute since and if it has tried has probably been forced away.

Schettino was aboutto make the call though.

I hate to sound rude but how do you know that?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:52:10 by Dannypenguin »
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Traddles

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 11:29:22 »

The wrong charts aren't his fault.

Jake, please be a little more careful in what you say. The wrong charts ( If that was the case, which I doubt very much) are the fault of the ship master. He is responsible for such things. He is in fact responsible for EVERYTHING to do with the navigation and handling of his ship. You may have opinions, but you are not careful enough of your factual commenting.
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saltydog

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2013, 13:53:29 »

I think you're right, Angus.  Apparently other charts were available, but they were not used..

http://www.enav-international.com/wosmedia/273/costaconcordiaanatomyofanorganisationalaccident.pdf
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 23:52:40 by saltydog »
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2013, 15:24:59 »

I think you're right, Angus.  Apparently other charts were available, but they were not used..
Here is an interesting analysis: (pdf)

http://www.enav-international.com/wosmedia/273/costaconcordiaanatomyofanorganisationalaccident.pdf
Looks like he did enter a shallow point which is again his fault. Basically it's all his fault as he had the responsibility of the ship. His problem even if it wasn't him who sunk it.
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Captain Cadet
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Brave Sir Charge

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2013, 15:39:02 »

Looks like he did enter a shallow point which is again his fault. Basically it's all his fault as he had the responsibility of the ship. His problem even if it wasn't him who sunk it.
Wheres the like button!?
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2013, 19:43:02 »









The only time i think the captains not at fault is:
-loss of ship due to terrorism
-He been killed or died at sea.
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Jake_Savage

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2013, 21:14:21 »

As I keep saying it is his fault but other people and aspects are partially to blame.
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2013, 21:43:56 »

On board a ship, there is nothing that falls outside the captain's responsibility and that's basically all there is to it.

Even if everything else goes wrong and if dozens of other crewmembers mess up, the captain is the highest authority and he makes the final decisions (or fails to) and he is responsible for his subordinates down to the lowest in rank.

And if he's a decent bloke, he'll stop making excuses and take that responsibility, I'd say.

He chose to deviate from the pre-programmed course to execute an unofficial salute to the islanders. And to top that he wasn't the last to leave the ship nor did he properly assist the shipwrecked passengers when they needed to be evacuated. He did not even properly notify the authorities, the passengers alerted those about how serious the incident really was. All in all, even if it's all 'debatable', those are some pretty poor actions for a person in charge of the safety of so many people.

His decisions, his fault. Easy as that. That's the burden of command.


Fred.
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Dannypenguin

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2013, 08:50:32 »

On board a ship, there is nothing that falls outside the captain's responsibility and that's basically all there is to it.

Even if everything else goes wrong and if dozens of other crewmembers mess up, the captain is the highest authority and he makes the final decisions (or fails to) and he is responsible for his subordinates down to the lowest in rank.

And if he's a decent bloke, he'll stop making excuses and take that responsibility, I'd say.

He chose to deviate from the pre-programmed course to execute an unofficial salute to the islanders. And to top that he wasn't the last to leave the ship nor did he properly assist the shipwrecked passengers when they needed to be evacuated. He did not even properly notify the authorities, the passengers alerted those about how serious the incident really was. All in all, even if it's all 'debatable', those are some pretty poor actions for a person in charge of the safety of so many people.

His decisions, his fault. Easy as that. That's the burden of command.


Fred.







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Captain Cadet

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2013, 09:51:10 »

we so need a like button on here...
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Captain Cadet
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Dannypenguin

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2013, 11:08:31 »

we so need a like button on here...



 ;)

I'll stop now otherwise this topic will get overloaded with like button likes....

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clanky

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2013, 20:51:32 »

Yes the master was to blame, however...

The helmsamn, apparently, had a limited grasp of the working language of the ship, which caused him to steer the wrong way, an all too common problem at sea today, especially on passenger vessels where there can be up to 30 different nationalities onboard, having tried to get people removed from the ship due to very limited English and having met great resistance from the company due to cost issues.  The helmsamn was sentenced to 16 months in jail, why was the recruiting agent not in court for supplying seafarers who could not speak the language of the ship?

The ship had apparently sailed past giglio Island on other occasions, if the company genuinely had no knowledge of this then their audit processes must have been pretty poor, why was there only one person in court from the company?

Yes Schettino to blame, he was too close to land, the vessel was not proceeding at safe speed and like any disaster there were a million other links in the chain which could have prevented it, all of which are ultimately the master's responsibility.  Added to this Schettino behaved reprehensibly in both the immediate aftermath and the time since the disaster.  His abandonment by "falling into a lifeboat" was disgraceful;, as are his claims of having steered the ship to safety despite the subsequent investigation finding that the ship was completely without power, including emergency poer (and therefore without steering).

All that said, the actions of both the company and the Italian authorities have been equally reprehensible, both of these used the media to ensure that the master was not only blamed but demonised, thus deflecting any possible criticism away from themselves.  The recording of the conversation between the coastguard and the master should never have been released to the press prior to the investigation,  the company talking about "unauthorised deviations from the planned course" as if ships followed a red line which the company have approved as being safe.

Yes Schettino is to blame and he should go to jail for what he did, but so should a few others and not only those who have been sentenced recently (none of whom will actually serve time in jail)

[RANT/]
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saltydog

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Re: Costa Concordia Disaster
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2013, 02:13:55 »

Reportedly the Costa Concordia did a very similar pass of Giglio only months before..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVYNtsbZHw

I wonder if the company warned their captains to be careful when passing the island of Giglio
Surely they should have been aware of the dangers of the hidden rocks of Le Scole..
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 03:22:35 by saltydog »
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