Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: Jake_Savage on July 21, 2013, 13:06:48
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With the ongoing trial of Captain Francesco Schettino i want to know who you think is to blame for this.
My personal opinion (after following the story since the disaster) is that Schettino is to blame but many other people are to blame aswell. It is a tradition to do a salute of some islands in the Med and he was only following this tradition. He hit a boulder but how was he to know it was there. the sea depth at the point of collision was more than enough for the draft of the ship.
Who do you think and why??
jake
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The Captain for going off the set route it was his fault not the cruiseline.
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Most cruise captains sailing the med to that salute. Was it his fault the Boulder was there? It couldve happened to anyone.
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Hi Jake,
It was quite simply & quite definitely the fault of the Captain. :o ANY stranding like that is ALWAYS the fault of the Captain, he gets paid very well NOT to wreck his ship. Your comments are thus totally superfluous. If it is common practice as you say above to go close to land to "salute", I would really like to know where you got that rubbish comment from!!!! :doh:
Note my signature below, I know what I am talking about, possibly unlike yourself. ::)
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My Uncle used to work on the bridge of a cruise ship. He told me it was a historic tradition. The ship he worked on did it every time without crashing. I'm not saying its not his fault I'm just saying its not 100%. I haw also been on cruises that saluted the locals.
Besides if he was 100% to blame how come 5 others have just been charged with manslaughter?
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Ok it may be tradition but he
-went too close to land.
-He didn't have his reading glasses so he relied on someone who didn't really understand charts as it wasn't his job,
-he was told by costa NOT to go close.
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In the end it was entirely the captains responsibility.
He claims the rocks did not show on his chart. They probably didn't because he would have used a small-scale chart. Large-scale charts were not required on the ship as the official route was not intended to be so near to the island. He should not have risked passing so close by the island without sufficient knowledge of the waters.
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In the end it was entirely the captains responsibility.
He claims the rocks did not show on his chart. They probably didn't because he would have used a small-scale chart. Large-scale charts were not required on the ship as the official route was not intended to be so near to the island. He should not have risked passing so close by the island without sufficient knowledge of the waters.
Yep. He should have a closer scale charts to onboard as the onboard charts would have been so large they wouldn't show smaller stacks which I believed he hit. That has meant that around £1 BILLION has been lost on the vessel and her recovery costs which could still escalate as their not sure she could be lifted safely.
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The wrong charts aren't his fault. And he was told by Costa to be careful in the salute not to not do it.
He should be prosecuted for manslaughter cos it was (unintentional murder). And for abandoning ship but the blame isn't solely with him.
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The wrong charts aren't his fault. And he was told by Costa to be careful in the salute not to not do it.
He should be prosecuted for manslaughter cos it was (unintentional murder). And for abandoning ship but the blame isn't solely with him.
The thing was the person who declared abandon ship (from what I heared) was another captain from another vessel. Not the real captain.
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Schettino was aboutto make the call though.
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Schettino was aboutto make the call though.
Yes but he didn't as he was off the vessel, not onboard!
He was the first person off from what I heared.
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Yes but he didn't as he was off the vessel, not onboard!
He was the first person off from what I heared.
And then he claimed to have 'tripped' into a lifeboat... ::)
It might be tradition to do that salute but I bet no ship has ever done that salute since and if it has tried has probably been forced away.
Schettino was aboutto make the call though.
I hate to sound rude but how do you know that?
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The wrong charts aren't his fault.
Jake, please be a little more careful in what you say. The wrong charts ( If that was the case, which I doubt very much) are the fault of the ship master. He is responsible for such things. He is in fact responsible for EVERYTHING to do with the navigation and handling of his ship. You may have opinions, but you are not careful enough of your factual commenting.
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I think you're right, Angus. Apparently other charts were available, but they were not used..
http://www.enav-international.com/wosmedia/273/costaconcordiaanatomyofanorganisationalaccident.pdf
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I think you're right, Angus. Apparently other charts were available, but they were not used..
Here is an interesting analysis: (pdf)
http://www.enav-international.com/wosmedia/273/costaconcordiaanatomyofanorganisationalaccident.pdf
Looks like he did enter a shallow point which is again his fault. Basically it's all his fault as he had the responsibility of the ship. His problem even if it wasn't him who sunk it.
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Looks like he did enter a shallow point which is again his fault. Basically it's all his fault as he had the responsibility of the ship. His problem even if it wasn't him who sunk it.
Wheres the like button!?
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(http://chrisblattman.com/files/2011/07/facebook_like_button_big1.jpg)
The only time i think the captains not at fault is:
-loss of ship due to terrorism
-He been killed or died at sea.
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As I keep saying it is his fault but other people and aspects are partially to blame.
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On board a ship, there is nothing that falls outside the captain's responsibility and that's basically all there is to it.
Even if everything else goes wrong and if dozens of other crewmembers mess up, the captain is the highest authority and he makes the final decisions (or fails to) and he is responsible for his subordinates down to the lowest in rank.
And if he's a decent bloke, he'll stop making excuses and take that responsibility, I'd say.
He chose to deviate from the pre-programmed course to execute an unofficial salute to the islanders. And to top that he wasn't the last to leave the ship nor did he properly assist the shipwrecked passengers when they needed to be evacuated. He did not even properly notify the authorities, the passengers alerted those about how serious the incident really was. All in all, even if it's all 'debatable', those are some pretty poor actions for a person in charge of the safety of so many people.
His decisions, his fault. Easy as that. That's the burden of command.
Fred.
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On board a ship, there is nothing that falls outside the captain's responsibility and that's basically all there is to it.
Even if everything else goes wrong and if dozens of other crewmembers mess up, the captain is the highest authority and he makes the final decisions (or fails to) and he is responsible for his subordinates down to the lowest in rank.
And if he's a decent bloke, he'll stop making excuses and take that responsibility, I'd say.
He chose to deviate from the pre-programmed course to execute an unofficial salute to the islanders. And to top that he wasn't the last to leave the ship nor did he properly assist the shipwrecked passengers when they needed to be evacuated. He did not even properly notify the authorities, the passengers alerted those about how serious the incident really was. All in all, even if it's all 'debatable', those are some pretty poor actions for a person in charge of the safety of so many people.
His decisions, his fault. Easy as that. That's the burden of command.
Fred.
(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o753/Dannypenguin/facebook_like_button_big1_zps95f3f3e9.jpg) (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Dannypenguin/media/facebook_like_button_big1_zps95f3f3e9.jpg.html)
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we so need a like button on here...
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we so need a like button on here...
(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o753/Dannypenguin/facebook_like_button_big1_zps95f3f3e9.jpg) (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/Dannypenguin/media/facebook_like_button_big1_zps95f3f3e9.jpg.html)
;)
I'll stop now otherwise this topic will get overloaded with like button likes....
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Yes the master was to blame, however...
The helmsamn, apparently, had a limited grasp of the working language of the ship, which caused him to steer the wrong way, an all too common problem at sea today, especially on passenger vessels where there can be up to 30 different nationalities onboard, having tried to get people removed from the ship due to very limited English and having met great resistance from the company due to cost issues. The helmsamn was sentenced to 16 months in jail, why was the recruiting agent not in court for supplying seafarers who could not speak the language of the ship?
The ship had apparently sailed past giglio Island on other occasions, if the company genuinely had no knowledge of this then their audit processes must have been pretty poor, why was there only one person in court from the company?
Yes Schettino to blame, he was too close to land, the vessel was not proceeding at safe speed and like any disaster there were a million other links in the chain which could have prevented it, all of which are ultimately the master's responsibility. Added to this Schettino behaved reprehensibly in both the immediate aftermath and the time since the disaster. His abandonment by "falling into a lifeboat" was disgraceful;, as are his claims of having steered the ship to safety despite the subsequent investigation finding that the ship was completely without power, including emergency poer (and therefore without steering).
All that said, the actions of both the company and the Italian authorities have been equally reprehensible, both of these used the media to ensure that the master was not only blamed but demonised, thus deflecting any possible criticism away from themselves. The recording of the conversation between the coastguard and the master should never have been released to the press prior to the investigation, the company talking about "unauthorised deviations from the planned course" as if ships followed a red line which the company have approved as being safe.
Yes Schettino is to blame and he should go to jail for what he did, but so should a few others and not only those who have been sentenced recently (none of whom will actually serve time in jail)
[RANT/]
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Reportedly the Costa Concordia did a very similar pass of Giglio only months before..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVYNtsbZHw
I wonder if the company warned their captains to be careful when passing the island of Giglio
Surely they should have been aware of the dangers of the hidden rocks of Le Scole..
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Thing is that the poops now hit the fan and that the shipping companies are trying to use an umbrella to cover them but to flick all the trouble to the staff. They probably know that the costa Concordia does that rout athough they don't say it officially as they know that I'f it was offical they be in so much poop.
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Think you may have just battered the nail on the head with a large sledge hammer there CC!
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Think you may have just battered the nail on the head with a large sledge hammer there CC!
:P
Try my best
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The ship has been there so long, it has been added to Google Earth..
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/07/haunting-images-of-costa-concordia-shipwreck-show-up-on-google-maps/
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I think I saw it from the plane but I wasn't sure as we did fly past the island. Not sure but I think I did.
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The ship has been there so long, it has been added to Google Earth..
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/07/haunting-images-of-costa-concordia-shipwreck-show-up-on-google-maps/
well it currently looks like this:
http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html
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Hi Clanky,
`A blast from the past`. Re` your post 13 of Sept`26th 2013 [sinking of Concordia]. I cannot help remembering some of our past exchanges in which I mentioned among other things the possible confusion arising from different languages aboard such vessels. [Quite apart from your comment that the grounding was due to a helmsman applying wrong helm because he did not understand the language in which the helm order was given] I watched the full videos of the event on TV, and was not in the least surprised to see hundreds of passengers wandering willy nilly this way and that way totally confused and some in a state of panic, and mostly apparently completely without competent crew members to guide them. In fact the apparent lack of competent seamen was very noticable throughout. There were also examples of a few frightened passengers [who did come across crew members], asking for guidance only to find that the crew members could not understand a word they were saying.
It was fortunate in a way that this event occurred on the edge of land. It is almost certain that if this ship had been sinking far from land there would have been much greater loss of life. As for the Captain and MAJORITY of crew, then it seems to have been a pretty shameful affair. Though of course no blame can be attached to crew
on the basis of language, and of course these guys are simply there trying to make a living. Blame here in my opinion lies with a system [for want of a better word] that creates crew lists where half of them can`t understand what the next guy is saying. [ Of course it all comes down to the `cheapest labour`, and that very issue is responsible for many of the worlds ills today.]
Clanky, this is honestly not along the lines of an `I told you so`. It is simply a reinforcement of my previous statements that `I, a well seasoned ex steam trampship man, would still not set foot aboard one of these modern floating monstrosities`. There are of course much larger vessels than `Concordia`, and I still view them all as huge disasters waiting to happen.
Yep ! I`m stiill an old dinosaur Clanky.
I sincerely wish you all the best.
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It is almost certain that if this ship had been sinking far from land there would have been much greater loss of life.
If not for the favourable NE wind that evening, that is what would have happened. After the collision her momentum drifted her out to much deeper water, but she was fortunately blown back to land.
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If not for the favourable NE wind that evening, that is what would have happened. After the collision her momentum drifted her out to much deeper water, but she was fortunately blown back to land.
It is the Lord God Himself who provided the wind that made the CC was fortunately blown to land.
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It is the Lord God Himself who provided the wind that made the CC was fortunately blown to land.
Of course! Let's go back to the Middle Ages! Why did no one think of that?! :o
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Of course! Let's go back to the Middle Ages! Why did no one think of that?! :o
Virtual Skipper,
Is your comment intended as mockery of MokMok`s post, or does it have another meaning which I have failed to grasp ? If the former, then it is in extremely bad taste. It is not good to mock the beliefs or ideals of others.
You of course have your own thoughts, and by that token you should allow others to have theirs ! [ Do you know what an internet `Troll` is ? ]
If some other meaning was intended then I stand ready to be corrected.
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Virtual Skipper,
Is your comment intended as mockery of MokMok`s post, or does it have another meaning which I have failed to grasp ? If the former, then it is in extremely bad taste. It is not good to mock the beliefs or ideals of others.
You of course have your own thoughts, and by that token you should allow others to have theirs ! [ Do you know what an internet `Troll` is ? ]
If some other meaning was intended then I stand ready to be corrected.
I wasn't being an internet troll here (so do YOU know what one is? (but it doesn't have anything to do with this so it's pointless to talk about it)). I was just implying to keep religious blabbing out of something like this.
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It is the Lord God Himself who provided the wind that made the CC was fortunately blown to land.
By that logic then i assume he is also responsible for the deaths of those who didn't survive?
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By that logic then i assume he is also responsible for the deaths of those who didn't survive?
Nah, He did let 4,252 souls live but that didn't stop Him to still kill 32... That's the logic we are talking about right now.
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I wasn't being an internet troll here (so do YOU know what one is? (but it doesn't have anything to do with this so it's pointless to talk about it)). I was just implying to keep religious blabbing out of something like this.
So it WAS a touch of mockery after all !!! And "pointless to talk about it" presumably means `No real defence to offer`!!! I DID say I stood ready to be corrected if I had misunderstood you, but it seems I hadn`t.
Anyway, what on earth are you getting `uptight`about ? No offence was intended, though if I were MokMok and I thought you were mocking me as a `religious blabbermouth` then I`m sure I would be offended. "Live and let live" and let`s all try to get on together.
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So it WAS a touch of mockery after all !!! And "pointless to talk about it" presumably means `No real defence to offer`!!! I DID say I stood ready to be corrected if I had misunderstood you, but it seems I hadn`t.
Anyway, what on earth are you getting `uptight`about ? No offence was intended, though if I were MokMok and I thought you were mocking me as a `religious blabbermouth` then I`m sure I would be offended. "Live and let live" and let`s all try to get on together.
Ok, so you're saying you are offended because you think it is okay that people get killed by your Skygod. I see.
And given by this fact, I wouldn't even care if I did.
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And that's why we should not bring things like religion or politics into these forums.
Because for some reason, people cannot handle that without a fight eventually breaking out.
So, kindly change course here and progress on a completely different tone without any further mention of all this, or we'll have to close the topic and send any person(s) that cannot show the proper decorum, on a short vacation.
I trust that is clear enough. Let's all keep it enjoyable for everyone. ;)
Regards,
Fred
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Ok, so you're saying you are offended because you think it is okay that people get killed by your Skygod. I see.
And given by this fact, I wouldn't even care if I did.
Look, I`m not looking to `fallout` with anyone here, so I`ll simply reply to this, and that will be my last word on the matter. [ No matter what else you choose to throw up afterwards ]
No, I did not say I was offended [ though I did imply that I WOULD be offended if I WERE MokMok ] neither did I say anything about it being okay that people should be killed by any sort of a "sky god". [What is that ?] Those were your own words made of your own choosing, and pretty `nonsensical` if you ask me.
However, I see that you are only 17 yrs old, so I must make allowances for you. Perhaps when you`ve had some experience of life then maybe your outlook will have broadened somewhat. I do hope so for your own sake. Now let this be an end to this nonsense.
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^I'm not taking the effort to even read this because I don't care.
Further more,
Thank you, Fred.
Getting back to topic again, this is quiet interesting to look at.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2372320/Stunning-images-Costa-Concordia-captured-DRONE-reveal-work-underway-salvage-hulking-wreck.html
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Look, I`m not looking to `fallout` with anyone here, so I`ll simply reply to this, and that will be my last word on the matter. [ No matter what else you choose to throw up afterwards ]
No, I did not say I was offended [ though I did imply that I WOULD be offended if I WERE MokMok ] neither did I say anything about it being okay that people should be killed by any sort of a "sky god". [What is that ?] Those were your own words made of your own choosing, and pretty `nonsensical` if you ask me.
However, I see that you are only 17 yrs old, so I must make allowances for you. Perhaps when you`ve had some experience of life then maybe your outlook will have broadened somewhat. I do hope so for your own sake. Now let this be an end to this nonsense.
OK leave it now please :thumbs:
Anyway have they decided a date to rise her?
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I read here somewhere next month already.
http://www.theparbucklingproject.com/article/38/Costa_Crociere_and_Titan_Micoperi_present_progress_of_operations_to_Civil_Protection_and_Observatory
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Sorry to dredge this one back up but whats the point making a new topic?
Unfortunately this ship has claimed another life with a diver being killed when his leg was cut on some metal. He was taken to the island and then airlifted to hospital but still died from his injuries. :(
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Don't be so upset Danny...we're all worry about all those unfair (as we say in my country) deaths...We had been discussing about Titanic sometime which was the most fatal sea accident ever but there was none to say "Stop!" We are just refering to it and express our opinion :thumbs:
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She takes another life :thumbdown:
Sad to hear this but it's a reminder to us that these divers are doing very dangerous work, going into the boat.
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Sad to hear this but it's a reminder to us that these divers are doing very dangerous work, going into the boat.
Yes, I certainly wouldn't want to be them :-\
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Actually divers risk their life....I think that accidents like this take more lifes after their sinking rather than while they're sinking...What do you say? :-\
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A video made out of home videos from actual people onboard the Costa Concordia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MtWxnRBVvg
Including footage from the bridge.
note to self: Don't tell your passengers to return to their cabins when shit is going down
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A video made out of home videos from actual people onboard the Costa Concordia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MtWxnRBVvg
Including footage from the bridge.
note to self: Don't tell your passengers to return to their cabins when shit is going down
Unfortunately my island isn't allowed to view content in neighboring countries :(
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Unfortunately my island isn't allowed to view content in neighboring countries :(
Same as me :C
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Unfortunately my island isn't allowed to view content in neighboring countries :(
It's a documentary from a British TV channel. You can watch it here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-sinking-of-the-concordia-caught-on-camera/4od (Which is blocked in my country)
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Video has been released of inside the costa Concordia!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28158805
Looks increadable how something so grand can just be taken away by the sea!
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According to various sources the Costa Concordia refloating will begin this coming Monday, the 14th, just to let you know.
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Copy that..
http://www.cruiseshipnews.co.uk/20140709/costa-concordia-refloat-date-set/
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Will it be broadcasted live as the previous time?
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The Costa Concordia is now afloat!
As of midday apparently she was 1m from the artificial seabed :thumbs: One more metre to go and she will be towed 30m east before (I guess) the refloating will continue :)
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The CC now appears to be a little higher than I saw yesterday. So far so good. :)
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Check out this video:
http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/130569/concordia-is-now-afloat/
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(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140721150440-01-costa-0721-horizontal-gallery.jpg)
(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00738/159052609__738073b.jpg)
(http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140723&t=2&i=942108867&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=580&pl=378&r=LYNXMPEA6M0A0)
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/7LJeILtuTN93zmdeX1X4tA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQyMTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz03NDk-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-07-22T185437Z_1449487340_GM1EA7N080B01_RTRMADP_3_ITALY-CONCORDIA.JPG)
(http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/web_07_IMG_7585_d0-635x423.jpg)
(http://bilder.bild.de/fotos-skaliert/jan12-dab1202-20120114-jpg_24495256_mbqf-1406009568-36926604/3,w=559,c=0.bild.jpg)
Truly something worth celebrating, all that hard work for over 2 years, finally let to this :)
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I bet the locals are pleased to see it gone! :doh:
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Seems to be SUCH A MINOR DISASTER cuz the ship didnt actually sink. I cannot belive this disaster even happened with AND people actually died. There were so many advanced tech on that ship that makes the ship basically unsinkable. So shocked at the captains cowardness!!!
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I read that they found some bones and probably they belong to Russel Rebello...he was a waiter on the ship and the only person who is/was missing
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16 years for the Captain - should it have been more? I'm not sure, swaying towards the argument that it should have been more though :P
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16 years for acting like an idiot.
I think it's a reasonable sentence. His mistake caused deaths and a multi million dollar loss, but at least it wasn't on purpose, 'cause that would have made the situation even worse. Nonetheless, he didn't take responsibility where he should have taken it. If he acted like a real captain and didn't leave the ship and actually coördinated a proper evacuation he would have gone off with a lower sentence much easier, because most likely way less people would have died.
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Seems to be SUCH A MINOR DISASTER cuz the ship didnt actually sink. I cannot belive this disaster even happened with AND people actually died. There were so many advanced tech on that ship that makes the ship basically unsinkable. So shocked at the captains cowardness!!!
Unsinkable ship don't exist. If watertight doors below the waterline are left open, the ship will sink when the hull gets damaged by a collision or grounding.
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I have spent many years at sea on the surface and below. I believe that there is only one person to blame and that is the captain. The man should never have gone that close in the first place. It was not the first time that he has been through that stretch of water and to cap it all the man is a coward of the 1st degree. He made that decission to go that close to shore like he made the decission to leave the ship when he did. Sixteen years is not enough.
Ex Marine Engineer
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Here is a site about the 'Concordia project'
http://shiprecycling.it/il-progetto-concordia