Seriously, how dare you...

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[Third Mate]

You may try the idea of "kids with invisible toys" on my server, maybe some would squeeze few quid back this way
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,28424.msg377363.html#msg377363
Some peeps played this today, and liked it.
If that wont work, I'm gonna go and play with my rubber duck in the bathtub to get a decent ship-sim experience

I do believe this SSE is a Ship Wreck so to speak, VSTEP thinks a "real" ship sim which is called Ship Sim 2008 PRO should charge people for a copy about 4000 euro...LOL, well there are "Real" sims out there who are much more affordable and give you the real deal. Anyway.....If you use the horns much? if so give me a PM i have a small tweak special instructions if you'd like to try, for extra realism

Third

[Tarsus]

Another little thingie against Hamilton's.
Ever seen on-shore lifeboat stations in Great Britain? The way the lifeboats are launched and retrieved from sea?
In many cases they run aground, using rudder and props specially installed within the nearly flat bottom of the boat, to maintain position while lying on sand/rocks to wait till retrieving tractor arrives.
Those boats are designed to operate at ANY sea condition, hurricane winds, on very tidal waters.
I can't simply imagine Hamilton's water inlet providing enough water for propulsion when boat is lying flat on the sand, without a rudder, while being continuously hit by incoming tall waves.

Been rescued once, shame to say, by Tyne class lifeboat. about sea state 5-6, waves 2m approx, "wind against tide" effect. Tyne approached us, maneuvered sideways not to hit us, very prcise manouvering on such angry sea.
Tyne is simple twin prop, very old design.

Again, what was that superior advantage of Hamilton's over traditional propulsion, because I think I lost it somewhere

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
I have only just bought ship simulator extreme and Joined the forum this week. For the last couple of years I have enjoyed using other simulators that being trainz and railworks. if you go on their forums you will see the same complaints as there is in this thread. Members complaining that it is unrealistic, graphics are not all they should be, locomotives do not perform like they do in real life and that the all game is rubbish.

on first impressions of SSE would seem to more than compare very well with railworks and trainz and the ongoing cost for add-ons and models is definitely far better. With railworks virtually everything you want now is Payware and nothing comes along and much less than £20-£25 routes are often much more than that.

I have a very good spec PC and ship simulator seems to run very smoothly on it especially as I am on the learning curve and often pressing all the wrong keys. I have also started to get to grips with the mission editor and I am looking forward to creating some missions as I did enjoy creating routes in trainz and railworks.

At the moment no similar later will give anybody 100% of what they want. But my first impression of ship simulator (and I am no seaman no more than I was a train driver) is that it is a good product, enjoyable to use and comes at a very good price both initially and for ongoing add-on cost

Also very much enjoying the forum, some very helpful members on here.

with thanks
Bill

[zilverenmist]

Hi Everybody.
I have only just bought ship simulator extreme and Joined the forum this week. For the last couple of years I have enjoyed using other simulators that being trainz and railworks. if you go on their forums you will see the same complaints as there is in this thread. Members complaining that it is unrealistic, graphics are not all they should be, locomotives do not perform like they do in real life and that the all game is rubbish.

on first impressions of SSE would seem to more than compare very well with railworks and trainz and the ongoing cost for add-ons and models is definitely far better. With railworks virtually everything you want now is Payware and nothing comes along and much less than £20-£25 routes are often much more than that.

I have a very good spec PC and ship simulator seems to run very smoothly on it especially as I am on the learning curve and often pressing all the wrong keys. I have also started to get to grips with the mission editor and I am looking forward to creating some missions as I did enjoy creating routes in trainz and railworks.

At the moment no similar later will give anybody 100% of what they want. But my first impression of ship simulator (and I am no seaman no more than I was a train driver) is that it is a good product, enjoyable to use and comes at a very good price both initially and for ongoing add-on cost

Also very much enjoying the forum, some very helpful members on here.

with thanks
Bill

Best reply so far.

I think there are enough navigational aids to set out a course. On a good widescreen you can even shoot the sun or stars 



It is obvious there is navigational aid 



My only real problem is my own pc, it is just to slow. I do have a ducky, but no bathtub.

I only complaint round authum.

And you say you think its crap?
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,28493.msg378888.html#msg378888 (http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,28493.msg378888.html#msg378888)

I think to improve reality, buy British Admiralty  nr 1406 (Dover and Calais to Orford Ness and Scheveningen) and 1408 (Harwich and Rotterdam to Cromer and Terschelling)
And a ventilator!

[Sam]

I don't really understand all this complaining.

I waited a long time to buy shipsim extremes, because I allready had SS08 and didn't want to spend €40.
First time I installed it, I allso was a bit dissappointed. But after installing some updates, I was pleasantly surprised.

Ship handling is MUCH more realistic. Finally rudders and engines have a realistic reaction time.
You can even see a wake created by the ship. In SS08 you could easily enter a port with a speed of 15 knots, put the engines in full astern and moore the ship in a record time. This is not possible in extremes, just because the game dynamics have improved a lot. It is not there yet, but I am convinced that this is the best value for money simulator that you can buy.

Why the hell would you like to use a sextant? This game is, to me, about maneuvering. When using a sextant it is all about the feeling you have for it, and experience. Seeing some angle on your computerscreen compared to holding the real thing in your hands?? A radio is the no1 instrument on the bridge? I thought your eyes where?

Not that I am a experienced seaman. I only have 7 months of sailing time on some general cargo ships (15 000 - 20 000 DWT), and am still finishing my studies. But what most captains and mates thought me, is to use your eyes. A radar is fancy and modern, but nothing is more reliable than using your eyes.

In the past people have been asking for a lot of features like the ones you mentioned, that are available in Silent Hunter. But those are all just bells and whistles.

Features like the buttons to start or stop the engines, realistic sinking, radio sounds, ...
All nice but they don't really improve the simulation.

(People who think you start any massive two or three floors high diesel engine by just pushing a button on the bridge, clearly have no idea about the real thing)

[zilverenmist]

(People who think you start any massive two or three floors high diesel engine by just pushing a button on the bridge, clearly have no idea about the real thing)

 
Hope everybody understand I was not complaining, xcept about my puter.
Have been engineer, you are so right!
Some land folks even think ships drop anchor about 17:30 for dinner at six, a drink a good sleep and 07 in the morning ready to go again.

[cptdave1958]

I hear you Tarsus... Waterborne...
Ex Mariner from the US Army sailed the ocean blues....
SS 08 is a lot better...

[LucAtC]

A propos lifeboat stations and Hamiltonjet, there is a short and interesting topic  (http://blog.swanagelifeboat.org.uk/2012/06/new-all-weather-lifeboat-in-2015.html)about the new Shannon class lifeboat in the Swanage RNLI Lifeboat Station blog.

Regards,
Luc

[svein76@online.no]

It is really interesting to follow this tread. I'm a master mariner myself and have spent approx 10 years at sea on different types of ships and after that 7 years at a VTS which I'm still doing.

I just bought the SSE and I like it for what it is: a game. It is a game, not a simulation, however the most realistic part would be the waterjet vessels.

When it comes to the two engines/two rudder vessels there is still a way to go. In real life, when turning/going sideways with a ship like the albatros or the pride of rotterdam, the trick would be to put the port rudder hard to stb and the stb rudder hard port. then use the engines fwd or astern depending what you want to do with the ship. In SSE I soon found out this was not the case, but knowing that fact I still enjoy manouvering the POR or the Albatros in Dover or Calais

Another thing is the VHF issue. As a VTS operator we try to keep the traffic on the radio as possible because we are not air traffic controllers. When the ship officers constantly have to deal with the background noise from the radio it is very tiring. Only place I can think of where this is the case is in the Persian Gulf. Even in the Dover Strait or Rotterdam I have never experienced the VHF so busy as it is being presented in SSE.

But of course this is all small details, but still something to keep in mind when developing later versions of this game

[ACR]

I do believe this SSE is a Ship Wreck so to speak

yes, this game is definitly going to die. vstep realized ist , stopped spending resources on it .

we will not see any improvements anymore or the next generation. it happened to many games.

i quess they smelled the money and tried to maximize profit with minimazing effords. it worked for some time but of course will not work on long terms.

i am nevertheless thankful to vstep for the time some years ago where it was something new and a very promising project. vstep made in my opinion some severe mistakes and we will see the result that this game - never being a simulator- will stop existing.

the idea of a shipsimulation is great and maybe somebody will do it the right way in future, but surely not vstep.

best regards !

[MokMok]

@ACR:

yes, this game is definitly going to die. vstep realized ist , stopped spending resources on it .

we will not see any improvements anymore or the next generation. it happened to many games.

i quess they smelled the money and tried to maximize profit with minimazing effords. it worked for some time but of course will not work on long terms.

i am nevertheless thankful to vstep for the time some years ago where it was something new and a very promising project. vstep made in my opinion some severe mistakes and we will see the result that this game - never being a simulator- will stop existing.

the idea of a shipsimulation is great and maybe somebody will do it the right way in future, but surely not vstep.

I am also afraid that Ship Simulator will be a thing of the past in the near future. While SS06 and SS08 were very successfull. But SSE 2010 suffers from a lot of bugs and performance problems. Since the release of the 1.5 patch in last february, I haven't seen any new developments or any new patches. I think that Vstep has abandoned further developing SSE 2010. How stupid Vstep could be!

[CarterTheCargoMan]

I've seen alot of posts in this thread, but I think maybe I shall chime in...

If you guys didn't already know, I think VSTEP is trying their hardest to make Ship Simulator realistic. Also VSTEP is the developer for Nautis Maritime Simulator, which is a bridge simulator used to train future mariners. Basically what Ship Simulator is is a denomination of Nautis, or vice versa depending on what was made first. Of course there not going to make it completely realistic, because that would keep the younger generation from buying it, which in retrospect would diminish sales. Every company needs to make a profit, and by whatever means possible. But some of those companies will do what they need to, not what they have to.

If you ask me I think VSTEP has been doing a fantastic job, and I think they're trying their best in order to fix these bugs and make Ship Simulator a better platform for everyone, not just the easily impressed. I still enjoy Ship Simulator, and I have been a fan since SS06, and there is nothing that's going to stop me from enjoying it. Not even if VSTEP threatens to sue because I enjoy it too much. And for all of those who are complaining, just drop it. You paid for the game, and enjoy it or not, it's a simulator designed not to please everyone, but to give us ship lovers and mariners the chance to be a captain, in the virtual world of course. So please don't complain, it may not be the best simulator, but it's one that's aimed at simulating ships and boats, so if you have been looking for a ship sim, but are unhappy with this game, well suck it up, beggers can't be choosers. I think that given a few years VSTEP will redeem itself and make Ship Simulator into it's prime, one that hopefully everyone can be happy with, or for some, atleast satisfied.

Best regards,

Carter

[Victor Manuel]

I've seen alot of posts in this thread, but I think maybe I shall chime in...

If you guys didn't already know, I think VSTEP is trying their hardest to make Ship Simulator realistic. Also VSTEP is the developer for Nautis Maritime Simulator, which is a bridge simulator used to train future mariners. Basically what Ship Simulator is is a denomination of Nautis, or vice versa depending on what was made first. Of course there not going to make it completely realistic, because that would keep the younger generation from buying it, which in retrospect would diminish sales. Every company needs to make a profit, and by whatever means possible. But some of those companies will do what they need to, not what they have to.

If you ask me I think VSTEP has been doing a fantastic job, and I think they're trying their best in order to fix these bugs and make Ship Simulator a better platform for everyone, not just the easily impressed. I still enjoy Ship Simulator, and I have been a fan since SS06, and there is nothing that's going to stop me from enjoying it. Not even if VSTEP threatens to sue because I enjoy it too much. And for all of those who are complaining, just drop it. You paid for the game, and enjoy it or not, it's a simulator designed not to please everyone, but to give us ship lovers and mariners the chance to be a captain, in the virtual world of course. So please don't complain, it may not be the best simulator, but it's one that's aimed at simulating ships and boats, so if you have been looking for a ship sim, but are unhappy with this game, well suck it up, beggers can't be choosers. I think that given a few years VSTEP will redeem itself and make Ship Simulator into it's prime, one that hopefully everyone can be happy with, or for some, atleast satisfied.

Best regards,

Carter

Yes, thats the true man....SSE is the best of his kind....His graphics....Ships..Well i can´t play right now ´cause this computer doesn´t support the game...But i will install the game in another(I have play the demo and it is really really good job)

[zilverenmist]

Not even if VSTEP threatens to sue because I enjoy it too much.

  greatest line in a comment 

[ACR]

Ship handling is MUCH more realistic. Finally rudders and engines have a realistic reaction time.

(People who think you start any massive two or three floors high diesel engine by just pushing a button on the bridge, clearly have no idea about the real thing)

do you really believe the throttle reaction time of lets say the vermaas has anything in common with a real massive three floor high diesel in a +300 meter containership ?

and with all respect for vstep - you call the bridge of our ships and the control inputs we can do at the end of 2012 a simulator in any kind

[Traddles]

Hi ACR,
You are very scathing about the controls of the ships in the game, and, in fact SSE as a whole. Have you experience of the engine reaction times of a large containership? The game, & this IS a game, as you are well aware, actually reflects remarkably accurately the acceleration times of most of the ships represented.
If you check my signature below you can see I have some experience of ships in the real world. Are you aware that the dynamics of the ships in the game are modelled by a fully qualified naval architect with many years of experience? Guesswork does not come into it.

Regards,
Traddles.

[danny]

As we're on the topic of controls - The sherpa's controls ARE unrealistic. The pitch on Most large AHT and AHT(s) doesn't 35 seconds to change from Full ahead to Full astern
The Sherpa can make 18.6 knots ingame, whereas SSE states it should only be able to make 16.60...

She also has prop walk when moving astern - which she shouldn't have, because she has two "contra rotating" shafts (or at least, she's supposed to have two shafts ).
Please see attached image, you'll see my sherpa has one(1) propellor, not two(2)!
And before I get slammed by "its your computer, reinstall this reinstall that" This has happened on both steam AND non steam versions.

[ACR]

hi traddles !

my real life experience is mostly on recreational cabin boats , so no large ships  .

nevertheless - google search or wartsila documents teach us that highly charged 4-stroke medium speed marine diesels have a runup time of about 60-90 seconds from zero to full load due to emmissions control and the delay in turbocharger runup time.

very large two strokes with a fixed pitch direct drive prop several minutes from full forward to full astern, even in emergency, and in normal operation due to minimizing sudden heat stress on the heads and pistons as well surging of the minivan seize turbochargers up to 30 minutes.

as a real  you surely know this.

so they all need tugs for berthing in ports... well, i do not need a tug in the vermaas, ... ok, no kind of modelling the winddrift helps a lot here.

as a real merchantman- do you want to tell us here the accleration times of especially the big containers, gas or crude tankers are at least rougly real here ?

don,t get me wrong - i would strongly wish to see further improvements in shipsim and a long future of vstep with this, but i believe that this ship is sinking due to obvious reasons.

cheers

[clanky]

@Danny - 7 seconds from full ahead to full astern, would mean approximately 3.5 seconds for full ahead to zero pitch.  I have never seen a governor which could cope with taking an engine from full load to zero load in 3.5 seconds without the engine overspeeding.

@ACR You are correct in that going from zero to Full ahead on a large 2 stroke diesel normally takes something in the region of 30 minutes (with more modern engines this can be as low as 20 minutes), however, zero to full ahead manouvering is measured in seconds rather than minutes so in theory it would be possible in good conditions to berth one of these ships without tugs, the reason that it isn't done is that the consequences of it going wrong in real life just isn't worth the risk.

[danny]

@Danny - 7 seconds from full ahead to full astern, would mean approximately 3.5 seconds for full ahead to zero pitch.  I have never seen a governor which could cope with taking an engine from full load to zero load in 3.5 seconds without the engine overspeeding.

Thats the figure I was told for a recent Farstad newbuild (PSV, Twin shafts, clean design)... I can't remember the name though . I Think a member approached Vstep with permission from Farstad to put the vessel in question into SSE, along with a 3D model provided by Farstad. Vstep turned it down.

[ACR]

danny, it may be true that the pitch of the propeller itself is able to change in 7 seconds  the full range of its pitch , but as clancy said the engine itself would never be able to cope with the resulting load change in this small time.

no way you will go from full forward to full astern power with the whole drivetrain in 7 seconds, even when due to variable pitch the engine by itself does not need to be reversed in rotation .


@clancy :

here is a video of yard trials for a crash stop of the hansa papenburg. its only a 1700 teu ship, so no comparinsion of the real big diesels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaE9pQ3MuIk

look carefully for the massive surge and finally blow off of the turbo charger. and listen how long it takes until the engine and turbo finally spinns down. after the engine and the turbo came to a stop you have to reverse and rev ip the engine again. due to the massive inertia of such big engines i do not think its a question of seconds.

here i found a video of the real condor express acclerating for open sea. interesting video .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4lcNRVMd3w&feature=relmfu

look how long it takes to spin up the engines and acclerate the ship. the huge amount of black smoke during acc. tells us that the guys are not easy on the throttle but the turbochargers start to delay in boost pressure build up and so the engine smokes due to lack of air .

cheers

[Traddles]

Danny,
I have absolutely no idea how your "Sherpa" looks like you show above. Naturally I am not doubting your picture, but this is how she should, and does, look in fact.

Traddles.

[danny]

Danny,
I have absolutely no idea how your "Sherpa" looks like you show above. Naturally I am not doubting your picture, but this is how she should, and does, look in fact.

Traddles.

Well, my sherpa has always had 1 prop, with both my steam and non steam versions 

[clanky]

That will have been done from full ahead with the engine on 100% load, ships never use 100% load during manoeuvring, manoeuvring full ahead will be something like 40 or 50% load and from manoeuvring full ahead to stop is a matter of seconds, even on bigger engines than the one shown in the video.

If you are on a ship like Vermas and you are stopped and put the engine control lever to the full ahead (100%) position then the pitch / rpm should increase to about 40% over a period of around 30 seconds then to 60%over the next 30 seconds and then slowly increase to 100% over the following 20 minutes or so.

[saltydog]

To put in my 2 cents, the picture that Traddles posted seems to indicate that she does not have contra-rotating props (judging by the angles of the blades)..