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Author Topic: Seriously, how dare you...  (Read 17911 times)

danny

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2012, 15:38:11 »

All these holidays must be costing Vstep a fortune!  :doh:
Also - we're getting slightly offtopic....
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Tarsus

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2012, 15:41:46 »

Also - we're getting slightly offtopic....
...maybe it's not such a bad idea :)
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Traddles

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2012, 16:21:27 »

...as just to point out how much of a simulation this game is... I can't really believe that, there must be some "easy mode" option I missed or something.
Just take simple water taxi boat. Turn your steering wheel fully to the port. Open a throttle very slightly forward. It goes where it should, right? Right. Now same situation, but reverse. Did someone turned the rudder to the opposite side?
I'm no expert guys, but every real boat I was manning the steering wheel, when you turn the wheel left, and put into reverse, the bow moves right, and stern left.
Please don't tell me anything more about simulation, and physics. And i suppose, this was a coding problem hard to solve by devs, so they decided to go "playstation" on basic principle of boat maneuvering.

Just as a point of accuracy, the water taxi which you describe, as well as a few other vessels in the game, is driven by twin Hamilton jet drives. The behaviour of the vessels is, in fact, correct. :doh: As a seafarer yourself you should be aware of this. Oops!!!
Look at this and you can see the system as a simple game explaining how it works. ::)

http://www.hamjet.co.nz/jetboat_game

The vessels and their drive systems in the game are actually modelled by a marine architect, believe it or not. :evil:

Traddles.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 16:25:48 by Traddles »
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saltydog

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2012, 16:27:38 »

Message edited. I hadn't read you had already given the answer, Traddles.. :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 16:38:19 by saltydog »
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Traddles

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 16:45:27 »

No problem Salty. Like yourself, I like to point things out when criticism goes too far. :-X

Regards,
Angus.

N.B. the British RNLI has been experimenting with a Hamilton Jet Drive boat, the "EFFSEABEETOO".(Fast Carriage Boat 2) Sadly the hull design was not fully compatible and they have gone back to the drawing board to see if they can improve things. I attach some photos when she was based at Hoylake, Wirral for trials.

http://www.scisys.co.uk/casestudies/RNLI/rnlifcb2.aspx
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 17:01:01 by Traddles »
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saltydog

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2012, 17:09:48 »

Tarsus, if you would like the boats to behave like a prop/rudder boat, I suggest you get ShipSimulator 2008..
All boats steer in a "normal" way, even the Red Jet4. The Hamilton waterjet characteristics had not yet been implemented.
Lots of nice ships in there too..
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 19:49:23 by saltydog »
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rjwhyte09

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2012, 18:18:00 »

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Kevinmcg_ships

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2012, 18:35:37 »

Well i can say, SSE IS NOW £4.99 haha lol  :doh:

http://www.game.co.uk/en/ship-simulator-extremes-45126?pageSize=20&searchTerm=Ship%20Simulator%20Extremes

lol - but isn't GAME still in administration? It could be just that they're trying to get rid of old stock as a result of closing down almost 300 GAME shops?
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MokMok

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2012, 19:27:48 »

If the poster wants a Ship simulator with very realistc features, he should buy Nautis in stead of ShipSim. But Nautis is very unafordable.

Is Silent Hunter programmed more efficiently than ShipSim Extremes?
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danny

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2012, 19:45:10 »

Yes - silent hunter is (atleast in my view) alot better at simulating what it say's its going to simulate....
I've heard people be pretty critical towards nautis aswell  ::)
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Tarsus

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2012, 19:45:41 »

The vessels and their drive systems in the game are actually modelled by a marine architect, believe it or not. :evil:
My apologies then. Never had anything to do with this system, in fact haven't even known it.
Feel silly for my brag now. Well, hard to keep up with technologies sometimes.
Again, my apology.

And since you wanted to go salty by "As a seafarer yourself", you can trust me on one thing. Not every person that has something to do with the sea, sails modern Hamilton propelled babies for breakfast. I was just a fisherman on a Baltic, and own a sailing boat, being in love in the sea since I was a kid. That's it really. Sorry again for mistake and brag.
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Traddles

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2012, 20:01:00 »

No problem Tarsus,
The person who knows everything has yet to be born. :-X (at least I've never come across him/her anyway.) I hope you get as much pleasure out of the game as I do, although, to be honest, I find that SS 2008 has a great deal going for it. However one must always bear in mind that these are really games and the real simulation stuff is in Nautis, which is Vstep's proffessional simulator. A very different kettle of fish. ::)

Angus.
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saltydog

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2012, 20:58:41 »

The person who knows everything has yet to be born. :-X (at least I've never come across him/her anyway.)

Haven't you heard?  Women are always right.. :lol:

But yes, I think VStep may have gone a bit overboard with the Hamilton waterjets. They are in all smaller boats in Extremes..
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 22:19:22 by saltydog »
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Traddles

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2012, 21:10:24 »

Haven't you heard?  Women are always right.. :lol:

But yes, I think VStep may have overdone the Hamilton waterjets. They are in all small boats in Extremes..

My Wife keeps telling me that too. I just won a race in Sail Simulator 5 against my Daughter. She said she was going to beat me, Yippeee!!! There's life in the old Dog yet!!!!!! :2thumbs:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 21:11:55 by Traddles »
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Tomaten

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2012, 09:56:03 »

Have anyone heard if Nautis really is good or as buggy (sorry to say, but I haven't played SS for a long, time now.. Got tired of all these bugs.... ?

I mean, have anyone even heard if Vstep sold 1 copy of Nautis? And was the costumer happy??
I have a hard time thinking SS series is a good foundation for a professional simulator...


And stop all that nonsense about radars and stuff is too hard for the hardware. It's nonsense!!  ;)

Look at FSX!

Yeees, it's been in development for ages, but it IS POSSIBLY!
Everything comes down to optimization!  :thumbs:


- Cya around  ;D

  
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sadsid († 2016)

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2012, 10:42:03 »

Hi
Do not compare Nautis to the game it is a Professional Maritime Simulator that
has been sold all over the World .
                                                                                            Eric

 
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Tomaten

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2012, 11:04:47 »

Hi
Do not compare Nautis to the game it is a Professional Maritime Simulator that
has been sold all over the World .
                                                                                            Eric

 


I just thought it was the same core.

Isn't it?
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danny

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2012, 11:42:55 »

From what I've heard "on the grape vine" Nautis is mainly sold in the Netherlands, with other things like transas being the more favorable choice for those schools and colleges that have a larger budget.
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michabned

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2012, 12:33:27 »

Nautis is being sold all over the world. There are several press releases about big orders on the VSTEP website, it goes as far as Taiwan:
http://www.vstep.nl/news/index.php
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danny

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2012, 12:43:15 »

If you look on the transas website you'll find more big orders, its even used by the indian navy! :o
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Tomaten

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2012, 12:47:28 »

Very interesting, I didn't know that  :D
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LucAtC

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2012, 13:24:54 »

Hello,
To the contrary of what has been suggested, it is possible to assign keys in order to control the azimuthal thrusters orientation.
Also, of the relatively smaller player boats, 6 have HamiltonJet propulsion, although it could have been from Castoldi or any other manufacturer. As already mentioned, these boats (2 props ie Apollo, Aquila, Arie Visser, VSTP7, and one prop Billy Greene and Greenpeace RIB) can be hopefully turned on the spot while keeping the steering wheel unchanged.
For twin engines implementation, the second advantage is that the boat can be moved laterally more easily than with standard jets, disregarding automated controls, of course.
Doga RIB, both Infernos and "rowboat" have outboard engines, Flambée and Fortissimo Z-drives, Mamba has IPS props, and "Davit" a standard arrangement.

Finally, VStep and Transas or Kongsberg sizes cannot really be compared.

Regards,
Luc
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Tarsus

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2012, 17:48:44 »

Interesting gadget this Hamilton, but...
I may sound old fashioned, but diesel-shaft-prop-rudder simplicity will never be beaten on open sea.
We live in world of gadgets, and well insured wealthy gadget lovers. If you spend some time in marinas, you find that most today's "seafarers" spend 6h on water, and rest of the week in marina. Their boats are so shiny and flashy, you wonder if to salute while walking on the quay. They never go out when sea state is greater than 1-2, as it's very dangerous.
When you do 360 with your single prop+rudder they say, I can do that too, I also got thrusters...
Hard to find any serious application for Hamilton as a propulsion for open sea crafts really. Even most modern Tamar in UK has fixed props for a reason. And let's not forget, it's an emergency response vessel.
Maybe some port maintenance crafts, pilots, taxis - actually as it is shown in SSE.
One of my yacht club members, dude that circumnavigated the globe in Catalina with very little budget, some years ago said:
"Out there, what you don't have, will not break"
Kinda like that quote :D

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Traddles

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2012, 23:02:03 »

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.knrm.nl/&ei=a_-_T_S0BKrV0QW15pm3Cg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CFcQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dknrm%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1W1ADRA_en%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D794%26prmd%3Dimvns

If you search this site of KNRM (Royal Dutch Lifeboat Service) You will see that the Terschelling Lifeboat "Arie Visser", which is in the SSE game, has twin Hamilton jets with a maximum speed of 32Knots and a cruising range at full power of 16 hours. Thats a very long way out to sea in anyones language. These boats are also used for towing quite large vessels which have engine failure. I think it can therefore be said that the Hamilton jet system is NOT a toy, but in fact an extremely powerful and reliable tool for such vessels. It should be borne in mind that lifeboats are designed specifically for service in open sea conditions in the worst weather conditions possible.
Sorry to put a damper on your theory Tarsus. ::)

Traddles.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 23:10:57 by Traddles »
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Tarsus

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Re: Seriously, how dare you...
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2012, 00:22:30 »

Since you're in a mood for a chat about it, why not. It's just a forum jabber anyway :D

We may argue about certain numbers, reliability, which both of us take only from internet articles anyways, because neither me, nor you (I presume If you did you'd have said so) have enough personal experience with this system to provide first hand information. What I know from personal experience, is further you go, less chances for rescue in time you have in case of a life threatening situation. And well known fact is, true reliability comes from simplicity. You may talk about the technology, and fancy gadgets when you're safe ashore, but on the sea there is always something happening. Always. Simpler the gear is, greater your chances are. And believe me, I'm not and and old prick that hates modern technology... Would say exactly opposite. I'm very much much a gadget person. On my boat I got 3 GPS receivers, one in radio, one in handheld waterproof garmin, and one in plotter. I got DSC marine radio with AIS, connected to toughbook, use LSB receiver for weather faxes. Not even mentioning all emergency equipment incl EPIRBs.

...so what. When on the sea, I only have VHF on, that displays lat/long, and gives AIS warnings, and navigate on admiralty paper maps using ruler, divider and compass. When in the mood, I play with toys. But always have hard backup in paper and pencil.

Had an accident on fishing cutter once on Baltic. 18m vessel, single prop, rudder, diesel. Sea state 7-8. Rescuing nets before storm. We've lost clutch, so diesel and pumps were still working, but propulsion was lost. My skipp was somehow working the rudder fin, that our bow was always more or less towards the wave forehead. You know, call me old fashioned, but having lost propulsion in Hamilton's gadget, where there is no rudder, you're dead brick in the water. And propulsion lost, isn't a rare incident. If you live close to sea, buy yourself a VHF, and listen to channel 16. You'll see I'm not just talking out of the hollyhole.

If it was for me to make decisions about choosing the propulsion for close range port maintenance vessels, including a rescue boats, I'd still go for props. And don't get to excited with maneuverability because experienced skip with single prop and rudder, can do pretty much the same. Not mentioning there are thrusters now days which make things much easier, but are not essential for sailing.
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