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Author Topic: Titanic II  (Read 54811 times)

The Ferry King

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2013, 11:36:05 »

It actually surprises me that some media can distinguish an Ocean liner between a cruise ship...
I hate it when they call Titanic a cruise ship. Like if people back in 1912 planned a vacation on board. Immigrants? what's that? Those are in casino's right?
Or worse, Discovery Channel calls the QM2 a Cruiseboat. That's like calling a river ferry an OceanLiner.

It's only a shame that Clive Palmer constantly refers to the James Cameron movie. To Jack and Rose and their romance. So often in fact that I doubt if he actually knows that story is a fiction and the ship actually existed but without them. If you're gonna build the ship, you build it because you appreciate the ship and it's era. Not because Romeo and Juliet went fictionally on board.

It seems like he prefers the Titanic film theme, over the original actual theme which had quite a few differences compared to the film itself.
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2013, 15:21:53 »

Clive Palmer referencing the 1997 movie I have no problem with: firstly, that film was, for what it's worth, how he first familiarized with the ship after some of his Chinese associates mentioned it at a dinner, and secondly (and much more importantly), he hired Steve Hall, with many people calling Steve Hall the #2 man on the project. Hired onto the project soon after was David Klistoner as an interior expert, and Art Braunschweiger attended the New York gala. Those three men are responsible for everything I know about the Titanic's layout and design, and the same goes for you, MrRobville, and those three men also acted as research consultants for Jason DeDonno when he modeled Titanic for Ship Simulator!

With those men doing the actual designing for the vessel alongside Deltamarin engineering it, Clive Palmer can refer to the ship in any way he likes as long as he's funding it, and still be completely fine by me! ;D
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 20:26:37 by RMS Gigantic »
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Mr Robville

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2013, 15:39:02 »

I know. These people have most knowledge about the ship than anybody else, and I'm confident the design does justice as best as it can. But I meant regarding CP's speeches, it seems that he forgets the magnificence of the ship herself.

Almost all of my research for the Titanic mod comes from their material.
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2013, 16:00:39 »

Luckily, Professor Palmer is just funding it, though he also at least understands that what he's doing is giving the ship a second chance at her goal. As for design, Steve Hall has stated that both Deltamarin and the CSC Jinling shipyard have been provided with copies of Titanic: The Ship Magnificent.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 20:28:40 by RMS Gigantic »
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2013, 20:31:49 »

My attitude towards the SS United States has, truthfully, grown rather bitter ever since the descendant of her designer called Titanic II, essentially, a waste of resources.

So.. to recap.. because a descendant of a designer of one old ship, calls the building of a mere replica of another old ship a waste of resources, you hold that against the former ship itself, a ship that has a history that could and should be appreciated and maybe respected much more than the mere word of some designer's offspring, and that is in no way, shape or form - or ever has been - directly influenced by or connected to the opinions of said person and as such makes for a totally nonsensical reason to dislike a ship? Or did the ship make him say that? If that's true, then fair enough! 

But you know, this must be the weirdest Titanic fanboy remark you've yet made on this forum. That's so far fetched in it's logic, that I now officially declare you the 'Titanic Fanboy of the Year - 2013'.   ;)  :lol:

(And yes, I know it's only April, but I dont know of anyone who would top this.)

 ;D   

Fred.


p.s.  Fusajiro Yamauchi's grandson told me that he thinks Playstations are rubbish.. So I'm gonna chuck my Nintendo out the window now I think..   :doh:
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2013, 21:53:10 »

She's not just a descendant of the designer, but she also runs the conservancy effort or something.

I would love to see the SS United States return to her former glory, but the conservancy would rather turn her into a hotel than, heaven forbid, let her figuratively stretch her legs again. Personally, given the choice between a replica working as a ship and a ship working as a hotel, I'll choose the one that's going to do what it was originally designed for!

I'm such a freak that I consider ships to be very nearly living things (if lifeboats could be built up into full ships, I would count them as organisms), so to me a ship working as a hotel to save it from the scrap yard seems to be the ship equivalent of keeping someone on their death bed in a coma for the rest of their days, possibly in pain all the while: it's very noble to try to keep them alive, but what you are doing to them is probably not how they want to be remembered by when they eventually go.
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saltydog

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2013, 22:45:00 »

I am reminded of the SS Rotterdam, now a hotel ship (amongst other)
With the help of a Dutch housing corporation she was preserved.
I don't see that happening with the SS United States..

http://www.ssrotterdam.nl/uk/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 16:28:41 by saltydog »
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2013, 00:27:28 »

I guess what it boils down to is that I don't like the idea of "permanent mooring". I much prefer the USS Constitution's type of arrangement, which includes the occasional turn-around trip! Heck, I'm even fine with how they're treating the USS Missouri, seeing as they recently towed her to a dry dock to clean her below the waterline, thus letting the ship move!

100% ideally, I would love for more antique ships to have an arrangement like the one that's actually been said to be the case for Titanic II, even though in her case it's for a modified replica: the ship makes voyages and even does her original job, and when she's not, she's docked at various ports acting as a museum ships between trips. I know it's not legal for most of these ships to do that without modification (though apparently some ships can get exceptions on certain regulations for whatever reason, such as Queen Mary 2's lifeboat height), but like I said, that would be an ideal scenario in my eyes. :)
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danny

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2013, 02:27:33 »

The Titanic 2 won't be doing "its" original job - The Irish stopped emigrating to the US a looooonnnggg time ago!

I'd much rather they Permanently moored a national treasure, instead of ramming said treasure up a beach in some far flung country. I also think that Mr palmer doesn't actually want to "bring the titanic dream back to life" for any other purpose than to make money - Why else would you invest money into something if you weren't going to get a handsome return?
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #84 on: April 03, 2013, 03:50:24 »

Danny is quite right..  T2 will never do what T1 did, and despite 'kind of' getting a feel of her if you'd be on her, you can never relive the past, there are just too many things so very different, it won't ever replicate the real Titanic or what it really was like on board.

They're cashing in on the fame of the first one, and in the end they will cater more to the masses that want to 'live the movie', than to people that are actually very knowledgable about the ship and her demise. Cause the latter group is very small, and will not bring in enough money. But everyone's seen the movie, so many things that they will do to get the dollars rolling in will make the hairs of you Titanic buffs stand up straigh, I have no doubt about it.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but it's just what is going to happen, logically. They will all want to go to the bow and have their arms outstretched moment.. etc.. and they'll let them do it too, I bet. In reality no passenger was allowed there..  It will be the movie afloat, and nothing like the real deal... they'll give tours of the boiler room, whatever you can think of.. all sorts of things that in reality would never have happened.. I'm sure you can think of dozens of examples. Although very nice, it's not being on the Titanic, it's just roleplaying on a large replicated floating movie set. ;D

Apart from that politics also come into play too but let's not even go there..  but a real 'hommage to the past', it is not, and will never be. That's not what the money is being invested for.. It's all just about making more money and they can get way more money if they make this a 'Titanic, the Experience' type vacation voyage, than if they will put this ship into a replicated line service just to shuttle people across the pond as they once had.

She might look the same, but the past is the past, you can never get that back, and no one is actually going to pay the kind of prices they will no doubt charge, if everything on board is as it was back then, anyway.. for most passengers, it's wasn't very luxurious or enjoyable at all, only for the upper echelons of society. In the end it's all about the mighty dollar, it's nothing to do with reliving the past and honoring a legendary ship. That outlook on things is only true for a very small and niche group of people with an extraordinary interest in this ship, the rest of the tourists have no clue other than having seen the movie and the odd discovery channel documentary. And they just want to be like Jack and Rose.  :P
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #85 on: April 03, 2013, 04:47:27 »

In terms of only doing it for a profit, that's not necessarily the case: Clive Palmer has stated that at his age and with his wealth, he no longer cares if he gains money on his investment (and really, if you want to cash in on the movie, there's cheaper ways than funding the engineering and construction of a 400 million dollar ship), though it looks like he will despite the comparative niche market of travel by ship, especially since Deck S (Safety Deck) will include a casino (which people will only be allowed in if they can afford to lose money) and shopping area. That's not to say that he's doing it solely for the sake of the ship, either, though: he's doing this to essentially pay back China the favor of making him rich by attempting to let the nation become a serious contender in the passenger shipbuilding market, instead of just the cargo shipbuilding industry.

As for cashing in on the 1997 movie with the general public more than the historical ship, of course that will be the case! That was also (whether inadvertently or not) the case with Titanic in Ship Simulator 2006 and 2008! With Titanic II, they've even made the ship an additional 3 inches longer because of a camera at the bow to give people a photo opportunity standing at the very front of the ship. That said, I have the feeling that people will likely at least need the captain's permission to use it at sea (it would be incredibly dangerous if they kept it open in all weather conditions), if they let people use it at sea at all instead of making it a stop on the ship's museum tour when it's docked.


So no, you're not raining on my parade, though there's a few corrections that were in order ;)
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Mr Robville

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2013, 08:50:46 »

It's indeed always about the money. If it wasn't it was alien. I have never ever witnessed such large projects out of good will here on Earth. CP himself said the main purpose of T2 was to set a better connection between Australia and China, and to put them on the cruise market as well. Although he's just the guy financing it, he came up with the plan. Now does he look like he knows much about the history itself? Not remotely. He just knows Jack and Rose and that's it.

Unfortunately for many, you are not allowed on the forecastle deck during ocean voyages. This was a safety rule that was even applied to T1 herself as well. And making a nice "oh-so-original-I'm-flying" photo would be a dumb excuse of dropping that rule. We shall see...  see when it drops.... and see when the first person gets smashed overboard...

CP played it smart cashing in on the success of a great name. Ask around, who doesn't know Titanic?
And from those who know around the world about the ship mostly only know it from James Cameron. Which is the big public. Heck, there are people who don't even know the ship actually existed.

The casino and spa are just a must for the large public to attract them as well. One 5X10M pool ain't gonna cut it anymore.
And the Safety deck is a SOLAS requirement.
But like Fred said, it indeed feels like a huge movie set. The funnels are fake, the masts, the original lifeboats, the exterior ventilation equipment, the whole stern with rudder. :doh:
And these are necessary measures of course, but still.. They want to recreate the past which just cannot be done.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 08:56:43 by Mr Robville »
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2013, 13:28:36 »

So no, you're not raining on my parade, though there's a few corrections that were in order ;)

No there weren't, everything I posted - minus maybe the possibility of recreating the forecastle scene, is factual.  :P
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2013, 15:17:19 »

Regarding what MrRobville said, yes, Clive Palmer has almost zero historical knowledge of the ship, but that's why he hired the likes Steve Hall and Daniel Klistoner to handle the research aspects instead of him ;D It seems that Mr. Prof. ::) Palmer mainly had his desires voiced in Deck S and probably the bow camera concept.

Also, that single small pool, from what I've seen on the preliminary GA and CGI plans, will indeed be the only one on the ship, with the Turkish bath largely standing in for a spa. What I've found really interesting is that, especially on the boat deck through D deck, the only changes they've made to the passenger-accessible areas are all found on, or all involve S Deck, with the exception of the observation areas in the forward two funnels, which I've heard they were discussing the possibility of removing if it detracts too much from the appearance of the ship. Other than those two things, it seems that they're keeping all of the other passenger areas as close to the original as modern safety standards allow (including using a more fire-resistant stand-in for wood but keeping the same carved look to it, and giving the ship air conditioning). Something I've noticed is that the lifts have open grates, and I've heard they will have attendants that operate them for passengers!
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2013, 17:48:46 »

but but but... yes.. that changes everything!!  I'm so stoked now about this project!  ;D
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #90 on: April 03, 2013, 18:19:09 »

but but but... yes.. that changes everything!!  I'm so stoked now about this project!  ;D
I punctuated that with an exclamation point because given the nature of people's common sense these days (just watch the text at the bottom of the screen of most car commercials), I'm surprised that they trust people to not get their fingers sliced off between the grate and the elevator :doh:
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #91 on: April 03, 2013, 20:12:02 »

 ;D

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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2013, 01:31:14 »

Back on the subject at hand (Titanic II hype), some of the lyrics to a song that was commissioned to be written about Titanic II go as follows: "From Shanghai to Liverpool, Southampton and on to New York". I never thought to take the words as literally as I am right now, but I wonder if that's to say that the ship will make a stop in Liverpool after her construction is finished in order to register her there?

In other, more relevant news, apparently CSC Jinling started cutting metal for the ship in late February, and is currently starting construction, while Deltamarin is making a few modifications to the design in response to feedback they received during the New York gala.
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2013, 13:51:36 »

Well at least we can always rely on good old Fox News to get all the fact straight...  errrmm.. ::)

Question is though, does the general population really care what they call the big boat on the news?  ;D

There's no question she'd be a liner, if she travels across an ocean from port to port, but is it going to be more a necessary mode of transport for the passengers? Or more like a vacation and a 'Titanic experience'? Cause in that case, I guess you CAN call the new Titanic a cruise liner too, could you not? Part transportation, part entertainment. :)
Mad_Fred this may help you  :doh:
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Captain Cadet
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2013, 16:44:20 »

That's why I find that The Onion is the source I trust most for news ;D
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Captain Cadet

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2013, 21:25:02 »

I use bbc but recently I used other sources like the mail, guardian ect as I find when new news comes out, bbc is realy slow
But I trust bbc the most
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Captain Cadet
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #96 on: April 06, 2013, 17:54:52 »

For those who were looking for confirmation on Deltamarin's website that they're designing the ship, they released a brief blog post here: http://deltamarin.com/articles/blog/deltamarin-designs-titanic-ii/9-24

There should be some Titanic II news before the week is up, according to Steve Hall and the Blue Star Line!
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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2013, 11:57:21 »

The Titanic 2 won't be doing "its" original job - The Irish stopped emigrating to the US a looooonnnggg time ago!

They still emigrate to the UK though... ;D
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2013, 13:50:26 »

..only the smart ones..  :evil:
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The Ferry King

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Re: Titanic II
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2013, 21:38:00 »

..only the smart ones..  :evil:

lol, you implying Irishmen are stupid?
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