Topic: Red Eagle controls (Read 19274 times)

LucAtC · « **on:** March 11, 2011, 02:04:50 »

The first attached picture Red Eagle panel.jpg was used by MAIB investigating an incident with Red Falcon, and shows the layout of centre control panel.
I don't know why the layout of the consoles was changed in Extremes, and the controls have been adapted to reflect as well as possible the functions of the real VSP controls, not to simulate the azimuthal controls used in SS2008 or elsewhere, and that after having read the various critics of the players, particularly concerning the realism.
VSP controls are simple in their principle, but if the thrust is indeed azimuthal, the controls are specific. To avoid other lengthy and fuzzy explanations, just look at the Voith Schneider made interactive VSP program, download it and give it a try.
The Driving Pitch slider control of the demo is replaced by a wheel on the Red Eagle control panels.

There are no switches in Extremes to select the speed settings of the VSP, nor start/stop button, but the main controls are present: The Rudder Pitch defines the transverse component of thrust, while the Driving Pitch defines the longitudinal thrust component of the VSP.
The aft steering wheel on the console, closest to the helmsman chair, is the most efficient to steer when making way ahead, as the corresponding VSP is at a greater distance from the ship pivot point than the front VSP. The choice of one or the other VSP driving pitch is more an issue of power availability and is of lesser concern when making way. The ship with one VSP driving pitch at 100% can reach some 10 knots.

To move sideways, or sidestepping, only the two steering pitch wheels need to be used, the sway speed is tuned by the pitch settings.

The layout of the overlay controls is not optimal, bad enough certainly, but each indicator (red/grey sliders) will stay under its corresponding control by design, suggestions are welcome.

Finally, when the console is to starboard, the bow as built is in front of the helmsman, and if the console is at port, the bow (of the instant) is the stern as built. Just in case, as double end ferries switch their port and starboard sides, bow and stern. It seems that, at least in the USA, the definitions are switched when the ferry changes her way to astern, so that in fact she never makes way astern...

Regards,
Luc

saltydog · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:58:31 »

Thanks for the explanation, Luc. I'm just getting to grips with the 'new' Red Eagle..
A suggestion: a lot of us rely on watching the steering pitch-indicators as we were accustomed in SS08.
I would rather be standing at the controls, instead of somewhere in the middle of the bridge.
Now you must use 'zoom view' to see the indicators, or the helm.

LucAtC · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:11:36 »

Hello Saltydog,
There is a small and bizarre file coming back time and again, defining the camera positions.
It should replace the existing file in C:\Program Files (x86)\Vstep\ShipSimExtremes\Projects\ShipSimExtremes\Data\Entities\Ships\RedEagle .
Perhaps could you check if it works, so it could join a future patch, if the trial succeeds, hmm?
Regards,
Luc

Third Mate · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:40:12 »

That's a great idea Luc !

We could have a Red Eagle Addon pack where VSTEP get's some serious realism in this ferry starting with the control panel to look like the real life picture you posted with all those features, this ship only

saltydog · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:58:53 »

Could be a good idea..

LucAtC · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:04:51 »

About the pivot point, this "instantaneous centre of rotation" is at the centre of the ship if the ship is stopped, and of course if the thrusts of the VSPs are in the same direction of rotation, CW or CCW, applying a pure torque to the ship.
With only one thruster at an end pushing laterally the stopped ship, the static pivot point will be at some 0.1 Lpp away from the centre of mass, but at speed, the now dynamic pivot point will move to the bow, as is the case for any ship, at a distance equal to the radius of the curvature (of the track of the centre of mass) times the ship midships drift angle sine. If steered with the bow VSP, the pivot point will indeed be closer to the centre than if the lateral steering force was applied at the stern, as the drift angle will indeed be smaller.
Regards,
Luc

saltydog · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:08:13 »

I'm beginning to appreciate the new controls, though I need lots more practice..

eviss · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:20:25 »

Hello Luc,

Thank you for the explanation and providing this .cam file!

Quote from: LucAtC on March 11, 2011, 03:11:36

There is a small and bizarre file coming back time and again, defining the camera positions.
It should replace the existing file in C:\Program Files (x86)\Vstep\ShipSimExtremes\Projects\ShipSimExtremes\Data\Entities\Ships\RedEagle .
Perhaps could you check if it works, so it could join a future patch, if the trial succeeds, hmm?

I replaced the .cam file / the outcome is perfect / we can watch the instruments now / good stearing position !

The new operation setting isn't that strange at all, but we was confiused by previous experiance from 2008 !

Since we not able to operate this vessel in real life !

My experiance with Schottel propulsion helps to understand and operate the controles in the new SSE settings !

vr. gr. / kind regards Erik

JoMach · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2011, 13:20:23 »

Hi All
I personally prefer these controllers than the others from 2008, it works perfect for me, only so as always first learning to handle with it, so is also in real life when you go to another vessel you must first fugured out how it works

rgrds
jomach
succes with it

agekiel · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2011, 13:29:44 »

Hallo,
I downloaded the patch today via Steam,
and i have no door panel for the red Eagle, not on the bridge, nowhere.
I cant open and close the doors.
On the PoR everything works fine.
Maybe you could fix this little problem

regards from Germany

Third Mate · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2011, 13:38:25 »

Quote from: agekiel on March 11, 2011, 13:29:44

Hallo,
I downloaded the patch today via Steam,
and i have no door panel for the red Eagle, not on the bridge, nowhere.
I cant open and close the doors.
On the PoR everything works fine.
Maybe you could fix this little problem

regards from Germany

Same here, was this feature just for P&Q at the momment?

vnas431 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2011, 17:25:22 »

Same here too, I bought SSE on DVD, but it use Steam. Next time, i just download from Shipsim.com.

Krgjerde · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2011, 17:37:28 »

Quote from: vnas431 on March 11, 2011, 17:25:22

Same here too, I bought SSE on DVD, but it use Steam. Next time, i just download from Shipsim.com.

Me 2

I have don't the controle panel on the bridge there you can open and close

Ralphy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2011, 17:44:56 »

It's not just the steam version. i have the non-steam version and that lacks the door controls aswell

saltydog · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2011, 18:13:46 »

I just replaced the .cam file with the one Luc suggested. It's much better now, I'm keeping it in..
Thanks to Luc and JoMach for their clear instructions..

maalle heitetty kippari · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2011, 19:26:58 »

Is Vstep meant that the doors can be open and close Red Eagle???

Third Mate · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:52:43 »

Quote from: maalle heitetty kippari on March 11, 2011, 19:26:58

Is Vstep meant that the doors can be open and close Red Eagle???

Cause if you look at the top of the topic you can see that Luc has a clear screenshot that red eagle does have controls to open the gates, but there missing for me

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:53:17 »

Quote from: Third Mate on March 12, 2011, 01:52:43

Cause if you look at the top of the topic you can see that Luc has a clear screenshot that red eagle does have controls to open the gates, but there missing for me

That will be released in another patch I believe

Third Mate · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 02:34:43 »

Quote from: The Ferry Man on March 12, 2011, 01:53:17

That will be released in another patch I believe

No problem, hope that's not too far away. I hope in that patch they can also make the Red Eagle "Heavier" and the engine sounds as well. Because I was looking at the ferry in the ship preview and It looked like it was made out of paper, It was floating pitch perfect to the bottom of the keel, it needs to be much lower in the water. For the engine sound sounds fine but as you add more throttle you can hear it but it too sharp, so in that gap it needs a fade in and a fade out sound, otherwise it sounds really bad.

agekiel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2011, 13:51:26 »

Hallo,
Yes the problem with the Red Eagle doors is known and will be fixed with the next patch or maybe earlier with a hotfix

.

Third Mate · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2011, 14:06:53 »

Quote from: agekiel on March 12, 2011, 13:51:26

Hallo,
Yes the problem with the Red Eagle doors is known and will be fixed with the next patch or maybe earlier with a hotfix .

I can picture all the cars driving off the ferry because someone left the doors open already

The Ferry King · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2011, 20:07:54 »

cant he gives us the file he uses to open the doors..

Or a better thing,
If he downloaded the patch somewhere then why cant we get the same patch?

why need to wait for another patch?

There are some missing files so vstep could maybe give us the files and say where each file should go

its not fair if mods can play around with these ship doors when it actually was also meant to be in the SSE game for others..
I did see that the doors of the red eagle looked different and brighter like the stern door on the POR so knew it could open..
I also noticed that on the controls there was a big gap where the door control button should have been See attached pic:

it would be nice if vstep would just give us the file so we could put it in ourselfs
or make a Mini-patch that will be released in 2 or 3 days that fixes the doors problem

Third Mate · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2011, 02:43:10 »

Quote from: The Ferry King on March 12, 2011, 20:07:54

cant he gives us the file he uses to open the doors..

Or a better thing,
If he downloaded the patch somewhere then why cant we get the same patch?

why need to wait for another patch?

There are some missing files so vstep could maybe give us the files and say where each file should go

its not fair if mods can play around with these ship doors when it actually was also meant to be in the SSE game for others..
I did see that the doors of the red eagle looked different and brighter like the stern door on the POR so knew it could open..

it would be nice if vstep would just give us the file so we could put it in ourselfs
or make a Mini-patch that will be released in 2 or 3 days that fixes the doors problem

Same with the ship horns, I finally managed to make all of them realistic for SS08 now I though, why not for SSE

Note:never mind found them.

The Ferry King · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2011, 18:48:01 »

its ok if they just give the files or even better

Why not make a Red Eagle Pack?
Like the ones from ss08 Shipyard

A update that fixes the bridge cam, Horn sound and door problem

pigdog · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:16:20 »

At Last! we have come the closest yet to replicating how the real Red Eagle handles thank you very much to whoever sorted this out.

The onscreen controls could still be a little confusing to someone not familiar with the propulsion system but it is far more intuitive now once you get the hang of it.

Now if only we could have the same characteristics with the 2008 steering consoles and the two bridge wing consoles added it would be fantastic.

Once again Thank you for sorting this out.

Author Topic: Red Eagle controls (Read 19274 times)