Time for some transparancy

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[dodweb]

We've already - repeatedly - been told that they know the program has problems, and they've told us why it was released like that. VSTEP made an error when deciding on a publishing date, a very long time ago, based on too little or wrong information regarding the work required to complete the software. It is not unprofessional, compared to even some of the largest softwarehouses, it is sadly very common today. Publishers have an extreme ammount of power, often they fund large parts of the - or even the entire - developement process; very few have the luxury of developing software with their own money.

I think it was Vanguard that tried that, with backing from a multimillionaire, stating that the game would not be released until it as ready. In the end they ran out of money before the game was completed, and they decided to sign up with SOE and publish instead of going out of business. That game was, at best, 25% complete. Even the largest of the capital cities were completely empty, often without any graphical work having been done at all.

It could very well be that VSTEP had to publish or perish. Would you rather see them gone now, with no SSE ever appearing in the future?


Having read Binders replies as well as moderators posts, I also find it hard to believe that he is not at least partially trolling for responses considering the way he apparently ignores or twists what is being said.

[Birder]

Birder,

As in many other instances, you have failed to understand what you have read. My reference to 3 or 4 months had nothing to do with a patch release.

Please read my post again before attacking me, it says:

Also i think your post could be taken as you saying that the patch is three or four months away when others moderators have said a week and a few weeks.

I am agreeing with what you said but am trying to say that it could be taken that way, ffs i am on your side so why are you having a go at me.

I would thank Subwolf as at lease he understands what I want to achive.

OK Here goes

I apologise to all Moderators, Admins and Users on this forum for anything i have said,

I am certainly not a troll and that comment was not warrented, is out of order and offensive.

I want to make it clear what I want from all this

1) Vstep to hold their hands up to the problems. I repeat Vstep, not a moderator or someone that is nothing to do with the company.
2) Give out a date of the patch, if they cant, then offer all who want one a full refund.

I hope thats clear. consise, not vailed in threats or name calling.

Once again i make it clear that I apologise to all Moderators, Admins and Users on this forum for anything i have said on this forum.

[Birder]

Having read Binders replies as well as moderators posts, I also find it hard to believe that he is not at least partially trolling for responses considering the way he apparently ignores or twists what is being said.

Hi, Its Birder not Binder,  

I pressed the button the same time as you, but i hope my latest post is clear in what i am trying to achive.

To be fair if Vstep would answer emails or online forms i would not post here at all BUT THEY JUST DONT

Regards

[mvsmith]

Subwolf,

It is arrogant of you to say what VSTEP should do. You are not the one who decides what Moderators do. It is the role of Moderators to explain what is being done, and why. We perform the customer support function for VSTEP, and are the normal conduit for most information from them.

The forlorn hope of you and Birder to form up a protest parade is fast fading with each post from you.

Most users would rather have a resolution of their problems than an apology. They also realize that the counterproductive rants by you and Birder could impact sales to the point where VSTEP would find it necessary to abandon the game development.

While they are understandably disappointed and frustrated by the current state of the game, most realize that their best chance of a satisfactory resolution does not lie with your agenda.

[PoRL]

First of all, a note to the moderators of this forum: Nobody at all (that I have seen) has blamed you guys for the acknowledged problems with the product. Some of your responses however have been extraordinarily unprofessional, even taking into account your unpaid volunteer status. No matter what your perception of posters, you are doing a great deal to not only make VSTEP look bad, but anger their paying customers. Remember - "Don't Post Angry!".

Now...  

"Most users would rather have a resolution of their problems than an apology". Why not both? Where is Cristijn Sarvaas' (CEO of VSTEP) saying to his customers "Look, I know the product is buggy and unfinished due to publisher pressures. We are rectifying this as soon as possible and will keep you fully informed of when we expect to get there. To make up for your disappointment, we'll give all those who registered the product before xxx a free ship in xxx months to show how we value your custom".

Rule 1 of business: You keep your customers happy! VSTEP has no special dispensation that requires us to spend what limited finances we have with them. As one of the primary public faces of VSTEP, that role falls on the moderators of this forum.

[Birder]

Well said PoRL,

[svache]

I don't want to add to the fire, I have been quiet for quite some time now but I do want to say I totally agree with what PoRL just said. And indeed, why not both the solution and an apology?

Look, a solution to the problems is without a doubt something they will have to come up with anyways, with or without an apology. They need to fix it, I (we) didn't spend $55 for nothing.. I am willing to wait but, honestly, I feel kinda jibbed and I would not have paid that much for a game if I knew it would be like this, there are better quality, less buggy games around for far less money. An apology would have been the very least they could've given. The problems need to be fixed anyways, but the apology should've been offered as well. A formal apology doesn't cost money and hardly any effort. However, the only thing I ever heard officially from VSTEP so far is one of their devs posting in the forums the quality was reduced in order to keep the framerates up, and of course the email about the Steam version (which didn't even apply to me).

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the problems, especially the one from the delivery date and the publishers (and that is also mainly why I haven't been complaining that much anymore lately), but, to be honest, I seriously doubt that if a SS12 or whatever version will ever come out, I will be among the first to buy it.. if anything, I will wait until the price has been greatly reduced again and the problems has been fixed, as I also did with SS08 for the same reasons. I hoped this time around they would've learned from those problems, but apparently they didn't and seeing how things go, and from my experience as a developer for various Dutch firms when I still lived there, I kind of doubt they will ever learn.  Personally I think it is a certain Dutch attitude (and before any Dutchies start to flame me over those words: I am Dutch myself so I know what I am talking about). So next time, if VSTEP already sees any money from me for a new version, it will not happen before the price is greatly reduced. Their loss, not mine..

[Cloud]

Svache, i find myself agreeing with you; I don't see myself picking up a future expansion or SS version release unless i find it in the $4.99 bin at Walmart sad to say.  

One last observation and I've said my peace.  I understand the justifications that have been given, but it's just not acceptable to knowingly sell a product that has defects or is incomplete while marketing it as something else on the basis of commercial pressure.

In this case it's a simple piece of software, and VSTEP will suffer additional reputational damage amongst people who have been supporting them thus far. Good thing we are only talking about the gaming software here....right? Hopefully they don't pull stunts like this on their Nautis product line aimed at professional training. (VSTEP should also realize, it's not all kids and gamers on here...there are a lot of maritime professionals here also drawn in by the subject of this game and this doesn't reflect well on a company that wants to be engaged in the the industry professionally)

Anyway, i'm done here; see you in 3-4 months and hope we have some more pleasant things to talk about here. 

Cheers,
Cloud

[pinobot]

I'm sorry but what i'm reading here is beyond believe.
I should be happy because:
1. Now Vstep has my money so they can make the program work as intended.
2. Nobody tells us if or when something will get fixed <---> I am uninformed so i shouldn't moan.
3. The 2008 version also had problems so i should've expected that VSTEP would sell me a lemon.
4. SSE was thoroughly tested. It was released with known bugs because VSTEP had no choice.

Seriously, i am a customer not a bank. When i pay for something i want it to work. If it doesn't work as intended then don't sell it to consumers, or print a warning on the package like: 'This is a BETA version, buying this gives you the right to update to the final version if or when it's released.'.
I don't have any bindings to Vstep. I don't care if they make money or not, if they go bankrupt or not or if the developers cry themself to sleep every night. They are not my family, nor my friend, they are a professional company i buy software from and i expect them to deliver. If i'd go out to buy a car and the dealer said: "This is our newest model, it's the best car ever but it has no engine, we didn't have time for that, you'll get it when it's done, in a few months or so." then i'd spend my money elsewhere.

[Osprey]

I like what I have got so far.   It works pretty well actually.   

However I must agree with the thought that the Company should apologize on the Forum and on the MY ACCOUNT when we sign in, with the promise of a free ship in the future.   The latter really won't cost the company much and would get them good publicity.

I want VStep to succeed, because I want my Ship Sim Extremes to work very well - as promised.  Remember I love what I have already received, incomplete though it is.

[marcstrat]

@pinobot,
You will be informed infront,even we dont know what error(s)or bugs will be taken care of first.However i know from the past that Vstep will inform us with a list of the expected repairs.
Also the 2008 version was far from what it suppossed to be,in the beginning.On the end it became a very nice game to play.
Marc

[Stuart2007]

You may or may not have a good point there, Stu! 

The possibility remains still that I might have a good point or might not have a good point. However, you might have a good point or might not have a good point about whether or not I have a good point to make. In addition you might even think that to discuss whether or not you might or might not have a good point in judging whether or not I have a good point about your point is a little spurious.

However, in the interests of transparancy I must say that I am absolutely sure that I may or may not certainly have the possibility of having a point. Clear?

[Dreadnought]

Stuart2007, is your real name Sir Humphrey Appleby by any chance?  

[PoRL]

Can't quite see your point, Stuart!!!

[Traddles]

The whole point is that there is no point.    Where is your sense of humour? It's a Joke for Petes sake.

[The Ferry Man]

The whole point is that there is no point.    Where is your sense of humour? It's a Joke for Petes sake.

Personally, I may or may not have a sense of humour, just as Stu may or may not have eaten Marmite today...

What am I saying - of Course Stu has had Marmite today... 

[mvsmith]

The whole point is that there is no point.    Where is your sense of humour? It's a Joke for Petes sake.

Hi Angus,
The same can be said for this entire topic.
Regards,
Marty

[Traddles]

Marty,
You may have a point.

Regards,
Angus.

[dodweb]

Hi, Its Birder not Binder,  

Sorry, the 'rd' looked like an 'nd' on my laptop

[svache]

The same can be said for this entire topic.

Or vice versa..

[Birder]

Hi Folks

For information,

Frank_VSTEP has contacted me and agreed to refund my SSE purchase in full, and i am sure he is a man of his word and the refund will come.

Best of luck to you all