Greenpeace Missions

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[Captain Spencer]

John,

Whilst a appreciate your thoughts on the matter (and is some respects agree with you) I do think you're over thinking this a little.

VSTEP have no intention of upsetting anyone whoever they are, and their intentions were certainly not political.

I can assure you that any missions that are in the game whether realted to the Navy class boats, greenpeace or otherwise the sole purpose of these missions is to have harmless enjoyment without the politics and hassle of a real-life situation.

Let's try and keep things above board here guys

[matte225]

I joined this forum to discuss this.
I bought Railworks, cause I kind of like "boring" laid back simulators. I was excited to see that I could possibly sail freely on a large open ocean! WOW! that sounds fun! Driving a cargo ship in bad weather? GREAT!

Attack..."illegal" whalers? whao..whao...whao....what is illegal here? I have been researching for years now, and the Japanese people are breaking no laws at all. I dont want to open that discussion again, but encouraging violence against the Japanese people like GP, and SSCS do (Why are SSCS even mentioned? please do not give them any press!)

Captain Spencer. Your comment interests me. If the company did not want to upset people, then why did they choose to donate money too such an organization that is known for it's violence? it isn't political at all? I think it certainly is!
Why choose to attack the Japanese people over others to begin with? "harmless enjoyment" with out the politics and hassle of a real-life situation? People die at sea. It is very dangerous working there, yet they are paying, through licenses, and donations, the group to make people's lives and work at sea even more dangerous.
It infact scares me. What have I done to hurt the company? Why choose one race over another? Why attack one industry over another?
You claim it is "illegal" whaling, yet this is not true at all (I have researched it for years now). How is that not political to claim such a thing against a group of people, yet add nothing to back it up but politics?

I was looking forward to this game, but I fear I will not be buying it, as I do not want to support groups that attack innocent people on the open ocean!


EDIT: sorry for the bump. I didnt want to start a new discussion.

[Tinchu]

Very nice discussion. I was expecting something like this in the Forum. Personally I think VStep chosen to introduce Green Peace here for advertising. Surely among the VStep staff will have people sympathetic with GP; very respectable, of course. But I think VStep saw, perhaps, a very easy way to attract more people. All of us know the fame of Green Peace. The TV news continuously talk about Green Peace. They are a referent nowadays.

But VStep was coming in a dangerous terrain too. This is a simulator for people in general, but, of course, the maritime community is specially represented in the forum, and many of them have another opinion about Green Peace, not so sweet. It`s a risky bet for VStep to introduce Green Peace here.

But the discussion introduces too here the question about the security in the sea. Is a new aspect to work by developers. Very interesting the rules about the anti-pollution devices on board. A new suggestion for VStep. I think in the positive side of the question.

[matte225]

I received a reply from Vstep on this topic, and it seems what was discussed here is not true. They were very uninformed on the topic. It saddens me that they resorted to racial politics, and out right lies. They ignorantly said "hunting an almost extinct species". This is clearly either an outright lie, or they don't knwo the real facts.
The minke whale is no where near extinct.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2474/0
So why choose to portray the Japanese people as "poachers"? Why the lies? Why the hate?

[Kevinmcg_ships]

I received a reply from Vstep on this topic, and it seems what was discussed here is not true. They were very uninformed on the topic. It saddens me that they resorted to racial politics, and out right lies. They ignorantly said "hunting an almost extinct species". This is clearly either an outright lie, or they don't knwo the real facts.
The minke whale is no where near extinct.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2474/0
So why choose to portray the Japanese people as "poachers"? Why the lies? Why the hate?

You do realise there is more than one species of whale out there?

For example, Blue Whale is on the endangered list since 1986 due to commercial whaling. In fact from the same website which you provided a link of, it states that Blue Whale has been classed as 'Endangered' due to its  population being plummeted by around 70% in the past 30 years. That is really bad news.

I do not wish to get into the "rights and wrongs" argument of whaling, but you do understand how people feel when there is evidence that some species of whale is under threat (while the others are not endangered, for example the Minkle whale) and why Greenpeace feel they have to intervene to prevent a total decimation of certain whale species - in this case the Blue Whale.

[Denis]

I received a reply from Vstep on this topic, and it seems what was discussed here is not true. They were very uninformed on the topic. It saddens me that they resorted to racial politics, and out right lies. They ignorantly said "hunting an almost extinct species". This is clearly either an outright lie, or they don't knwo the real facts.
The minke whale is no where near extinct.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2474/0
So why choose to portray the Japanese people as "poachers"? Why the lies? Why the hate?

Hi matte225.

First of all, you're bringing a debate on "racial" aspects, which is totally irrelevant.

About the legal aspects you've "been searching for years", please read this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission

You may read this link, too :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7188674.stm

An Australian court has ruled that the activities of the Japanese whaling fleet are illegal and ordered it to halt its operations.

And you can't deny the objectivity of those links. Unless you believe in a plot theory, and that the BBC is secretly a press office for greenpeace...

Even if you don't agree with the laws discussed aboved - which is your right - you're not allowed to blame anyone (especially VSTEP) for bringing "racial hate" inside what is nothing more than a Game. That is not tolerable on this forum.

And about the politics aspects you mention, I belive most  game are undoubtfully much more debatable.

Sorry for my english, I hope everything is understandable.

[matte225]

Hi matte225.

First of all, you're bringing a debate on "racial" aspects, which is totally irrelevant.

About the legal aspects you've "been searching for years", please read this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission

You may read this link, too :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7188674.stm
And you can't deny the objectivity of those links. Unless you believe in a plot theory, and that the BBC is secretly a press office for greenpeace...

Even if you don't agree with the laws discussed aboved - which is your right - you're not allowed to blame anyone (especially VSTEP) for bringing "racial hate" inside what is nothing more than a Game. That is not tolerable on this forum.

And about the politics aspects you mention, I belive most  game are undoubtfully much more debatable.

Sorry for my english, I hope everything is understandable.

What law is being broke? Australia has absolutely no say in anything that happens in International Waters. So your argument in invalid. Australia should mind it's own business, as they murder and skin baby roos alive for fun.
The IWC is an international organization to monitor Whale stock and to return to commercial whaling.

The bottom line is that they choose to target specifically the Japanese people, and claim that they are poachers and hunting "illegally", even when the IWC (remember, an INTERNATIONAL organization) has given them the special permits too.

You do realise there is more than one species of whale out there?

For example, Blue Whale is on the endangered list since 1986 due to commercial whaling. In fact from the same website which you provided a link of, it states that Blue Whale has been classed as 'Endangered' due to its  population being plummeted by around 70% in the past 30 years. That is really bad news.

I do not wish to get into the "rights and wrongs" argument of whaling, but you do understand how people feel when there is evidence that some species of whale is under threat (while the others are not endangered, for example the Minkle whale) and why Greenpeace feel they have to intervene to prevent a total decimation of certain whale species - in this case the Blue Whale.

Who is hunting the Blue whale? No one is, especially not the Japanese people. Your argument is invalid. The game targets the Japanese people specifically. Vstep specifically said to me that they were hunting an endangered whale. So either they are mistaken, or outright lying.
What is next? A video game where you dump oil and human waste into the ocean while throwing acid at people? Sinking merchant ships maybe?
You can drive an oil tanker, can't you? GP has attacked them before...so why only target the Japanese people?

[spitman]

I think the Greenpeace missions are excellent, I would like to see more of them in the future.  No matter how you feel about Greenpeace, I see nothing wrong with any of the missions that are presented in this game,  nobody is being "attacked" and there is no hate to be found anywhere. 

John's comment "You end up giving the impression that ships are responsible for all the pollution at sea" doesn't make sense to me because this game does not suggest anything like that.  The missions are about a few incidents that are illegal... would we really want a mission where you follow a ship that isn't doing anything wrong? would that be interesting? 

You have to at least admit that Greenpeace does do some good.  I don't think anyone here believes that dumping nuclear waste into the ocean is a good idea but I may be wrong...
 

[spitman]

What is next? A video game where you dump oil and human waste into the ocean while throwing acid at people? Sinking merchant ships maybe?
You can drive an oil tanker, can't you? GP has attacked them before...so why only target the Japanese people?

You say they are only targeting the Japanese people?  there are only 9 Greenpeace missions in the game, how could they target everyone with only 9 missions?  maybe they will make up for it with some new downloadable content in the future.

And how do you go from this game to saying something like  "What is next? A video game where you dump oil and human waste into the ocean while throwing acid at people"?  sorry, but that makes no sense at all.  None of these missions tell you to harm anyone or pollute anything.   

And "Sinking merchant ships"?   well... we'll just leave that to games like the Silent Hunter series...

[Kevinmcg_ships]

Your argument is invalid. The game targets the Japanese people specifically.

OK, you're not happy because Japanese people are made out to be the bad guys in the SSE game. So what about other games such as Call of Duty: Rising Sun? In that game you specifically kill Japanese soliders. Does that mean Electronic Arts (the game developer) are in the wrong as well?

I think you are turning this into a racial issue. It's only a game, for goodness sake. In fact the racial aspect of the game in SSE hadn't even entered my mind until you made a big issue of it.

[sydmichel]

I think he is just a Troll.  Please dont feed the Trolls!

[Kevinmcg_ships]

I think he is just a Troll.  Please dont feed the Trolls!

Agreed, this will be my last say on this topic. 

[matte225]

You say they are only targeting the Japanese people?  there are only 9 Greenpeace missions in the game, how could they target everyone with only 9 missions?  maybe they will make up for it with some new downloadable content in the future.

And how do you go from this game to saying something like  "What is next? A video game where you dump oil and human waste into the ocean while throwing acid at people"?  sorry, but that makes no sense at all.  None of these missions tell you to harm anyone or pollute anything.   

And "Sinking merchant ships"?   well... we'll just leave that to games like the Silent Hunter series...

Maybe not include Greenpeace missions in the first place? What was the point of making such a political statement in a game about boats and ships? GP has been well known for its use of violence against various merchant ships. So including them seems to be supporting the violence against the shipping industry. Why claim something is illegal, and endangered when it is not? Either Vstep is lying or they are misinformed.
I have asked, and the only thing I have gotten is something that the Aussies trying to use their laws against people in International Waters.
NOTE: There is a $1000 reward (to you or org. of your choice) If you can cite what law the Japanese IWC group is violating.

[mvsmith]

Matte225, your charge of racism and a political agenda on the part of VSTEP is ludicrous.

I’m sure it was a marketing decision.  Those often defy rational analysis, based as they are on the belief that a certain interest group will be attracted to a product, while—if  this is even considered—those with contrary beliefs are a small and silent minority.

While VSTEP’s intentions were apolitical, the actions of the users will probably not be. We have seen, in SS08, that many delight in using the game primarily to watch ships sink.

When the mission editor is released, we will probably see scenarios where Greenpeace has modified water cannons to squirt napalm to set whalers ablaze. The napalm must be left to the player’s imagination, but setting a conflagration aboard a ship is a trivial job in the editor.
So, you are probably wise to remain a troll. SSE might only bring you heartache.

[matte225]

Matte225, your charge of racism and a political agenda on the part of VSTEP is ludicrous.

I’m sure it was a marketing decision.  Those often defy rational analysis, based as they are on the belief that a certain interest group will be attracted to a product, while—if  this is even considered—those with contrary beliefs are a small and silent minority.

While VSTEP’s intentions were apolitical, the actions of the users will probably not be. We have seen, in SS08, that many delight in using the game primarily to watch ships sink.

When the mission editor is released, we will probably see scenarios where Greenpeace has modified water cannons to squirt napalm to set whalers ablaze. The napalm must be left to the player’s imagination, but setting a conflagration aboard a ship is a trivial job in the editor.
So, you are probably wise to remain a troll. SSE might only bring you heartache.

Doesn't answer my question as to why Vstep seems to think that the Japanese IWC is hunting endangered whales, or that it is illegal. BTW, there is a $1000 reward for anyone who cites the law that the IWC is breaking.

What about being able to drive a Japanese research or whaling hunting vessel? Then you have to defend yourself from GP attacks. It would be quite funny to spray a bunch of ecoterrorists out of their dingy. I am sure that would sell very well. I would buy it then.

[matte225]

If I am wrong about this, may someone explain what the Greenpeace mission is in the anti-Japanese mission?

I am also eagerly awaiting an answer as to why. Are there maritime people on here? How would you feel if GP sunk, rammed, or blocked  your ship? It seems to me this company should be promoting safety at sea instead

[sadsid (†2016)]

I am also eagerly awaiting an answer as to why. Are there maritime people on here?

Could be we enjoy a maritime sim 
How would you feel if GP sunk, rammed, or blocked  your ship?

In my career at sea I was in 2 Cod wars (Iceland) during this time we were arrested by the Thor
And on another trip fired on by the Agre recieving 3 shell holes in the bow before the navy got to us.
We  were there to catch fish they were ther to stop us .
How did the crew (me) feel just wanted to earn a living pay the bills.

In my career at sea I and many others in fact all seaman share a common bond a ship in trouble for
whatever reason has no nationality.

Ships sim is a game that is to be enjoyed by all for the missions that are made by me and others as
far as it go'es greenpeace have there good points/bad points but it has nothing to do with the sim
itself they are 2/3 more good ships in a good sim.

As to V-Steps reasons for there choice only they know and I can respect that so having had my little
rant I will back to enjoying a good mission.
                                                                                                              Eric

[matte225]

In my career at sea I was in 2 Cod wars (Iceland) during this time we were arrested by the Thor
And on another trip fired on by the Agre recieving 3 shell holes in the bow before the navy got to us.
We  were there to catch fish they were ther to stop us .
How did the crew (me) feel just wanted to earn a living pay the bills.

                                                     Eric

Yet VSTEP is supporting a group whos job it is to make the seas more dangerous. Since you seem to have been in danger at sea, I am sure you didnt think too kindly on the people shooting a tyou.
Well, how do the people think when GP tries to sink ships, or block them, etc? You are just there making a living, then all of a sudden you have people attacking your ship. It is my belief that any attack on a ship/car/plane/building/etc that you are in, is an attack on you. If GP rams a boat I am on, that is a threat to my life, and VSTEP seems to agree that ramming ships is an OK thing to do.

[mvsmith]

What about being able to drive a Japanese research or whaling hunting vessel? Then you have to defend yourself from GP attacks. It would be quite funny to spray a bunch of ecoterrorists out of their dingy. I am sure that would sell very well. I would buy it then.

Verily, it maketh a difference whose ox is being gored.

Greenpeace ships are in the game because there is a perceived interest in their activity, and because they were willing to allow the use of the actual vessels and cooperate with VSTEP in developing a model of a ship still under construction. The whaling ships are in the game only as AI ships to avoid turning SSE into a combat simulator.

It is you who are attempting to politicize it and turn it into a racial matter. As you are not an Extremes user, nor a registered user of any Ship Simulator version, you are simply a troll who is using this forum as a soapbox to pursue a personal agenda with little relevance to this game.

[Tinchu]

It`s not the first time some videogame wound certain sensitivities with political and ideological questions. In my opinion VStep should have think more carefully. There are many profesional people developing their duties on the sea. Fiscal and customs vigilance, illegal inmigration, fishing inspection, SAR missions... All of them, duties served for quiet and self-sacrificing profesionals and under international strict laws; generally they wear uniform, and of course they are not so popular and "journalistic" as Green Peace are. I`d like to see here more about those people. VStep doesn`t need this kind of mess.   

[mvsmith]

As to my personal views: I have little regard for either anti-whaling group. I think their main purpose is to garner funds and publicity through dangerous, illegal, and in the end, ineffective tactics.

While the whalers may have limited rights to take some whales, they do so for mainly commercial reasons. As a former oceanographer, I find passing off their ships as “research vessels” disingenuous at best, and somewhat offensive.

The entire rhubarb is somewhat silly; having survived the slaughters of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the whales are unlikely to be driven to extinction by the Japanese.

[matte225]

So no one is going to answer my question of the "objective" in the anti-Japanese whaling mission? What is hte point of it in the first place? Why has VSTEP lied and said the Japanese research is illegal?

[saltydog]

having survived the slaughters of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the whales are unlikely to be driven to extinction by the Japanese.

An interesting point.Why is Japan the only country allowed to yearly kill hundreds of whales for "Scientific Research" ?
Why not other countries, like Iceland, Norway, China, Russia, Netherlands, Greenland, U.S., etc..?

[mvsmith]

So no one is going to answer my question of the "objective" in the anti-Japanese whaling mission? What is hte point of it in the first place? Why has VSTEP lied and said the Japanese research is illegal?

No one has answered your question because it is not a question, but a diatribe disguised as a question.
The purpose of the Greenpeace missions is entertainment.
By calling VSTEP liars, you have abused the hospitality they have extended you on this forum.
The forum is for users of the Ship Simulator series and those who are interested in becoming users. You are clearly neither.
I’m locking this topic. Find a soapbox elsewhere.