Greenpeace Missions

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[JOHN LYLE]

I have been looking ath the demo videos of the GreenPeace missions and I don't thing you will win over many professional seafarers here. It seem to be missions against mercahnt ships for dumping garbage and oil. While I will agree that this does happen those that do it are in the minority. You end up giving the impression that ships are responsible for all the pollution at sea. If land based polluters had reduced their pollution of the sea as much as the marine industry has since 1990 we would be seeing a significant improvement of the world oceans. How many people are aware that pleasure boats in Nort America release enough oil into the water to equal 15 Exxon valdez oil spills.
 Secondly it is legal for ships to dump garbage as long as it is not oil or plastic and is dumped more than 25 miles off shore. In the last 10 years all the shipping companies I have worked for have a zero discharge policy as far as dumping garbage goes. We were still allowed to dump food waste over the side but that is all. The rest was retained on board for disposal ashore or burned in an incinerator and the ash disposed of ashore.
 So how about stop making merchant ships the baad guys and stop "teaching" people terrorist tactics by letting them attack merchant ships.
 The next professional seafarer I meet that is for Green Peace and the Sea Shepard Soceity will be the first. I am sure there must be some out there but I have not met one yet.

[Matthew Brown]

Who ever said anything about attacking?

The most violent actions I can see on these missions is shooting... with a camera.
There's no ramming etc. Just taking photos.
All the missions are based on real life events with the same ships, for anyone who isn't in touch with the environment that much then maybe they can learn a thing or two about somethings that do really go in the world.
Sure there's polluters on land too but this is just a maritime game so it's only at sea.

Even if it's a small thing people still enjoy the feeling that they are helping the environment, and with this game they can actually feel that a bit.
But if you don't like the look of the game there's no obligation to buy.

But in general overall what I'm saying is that there are definately more people excited about these missions than people that despise them.
The companies that make this game have spent a lot of hard work on these games, and if somebody says something bad about the product then it isn't so nice for the creators they feel sad in a way maybe that people don't enjoy the game.
And if people keep posting negative comments about the game it doesn't look good overall  The people on this forum are friendly people in a close knit-community who all enjoy the game.

So please just if you have any negative comments keep them for yourself and feel free to post any positive things. It's just nice at the end of the day to keep a nice atmosphere here 

I hope you understand 
I say it in a friendly way!

Kind Regards

Matthew

[dodweb]

Matthew put what I wanted to write in a much better way.

Just wanted to point out that you can clearly see land during the Vermaas scene (dumping cargo ship), she's not out at sea there.

[Mad_Fred]

Matt,

If we let you voice your Sea Shepard propaganda here on many occasions, then John is entitled to his opinion too.

Negative or positive, doesn't matter.  He has a valid point and some real mariners will probably prefer the other missions, and not the GP ones, altough the picture he paints is not what Vstep have in mind with the GP missions at all, but still,  no need to tell him to not post his opinion. He can. Same as you can, when you post unsubstantiated Sea Shepard propaganda here.

But it's giving and taking.

So John, Vstep really doesn't want to give the impression you think it will give with this GP part of the game. But I can see how you might come to such a conclusion. I think it's not to be taken THAT seriusly though, since after all, it is a game.  

Regards,
Fred

[Matthew Brown]

Yes exactly

[clanky]

I am mostly in agreement with John on this one.  There are ships which break the rules, but they are few and far between.

The shipping industry is legislated to the point where seafarers can go to jail for accidental discharges of oil into the sea whereas shore based industries get comparatively minor fines for intentional discharges.  Ships are required by law to separate garbage into 7 different categories, ports are required to provide reception facilities for all of these different categories (a cost which is passed on to ship operators), yet when these seven categories of garbage are collected they go in the back of one truck and get taken to the same dump.

Legislation has been in place for the past 20 years stating that ships must filter all bilge water to a maximum of 15 parts oil per million parts of water, technology has only just made this practically possible in the last few years, while pleasure craft continue to pump oil overboard with impunity and oil continues to leak into the sea from the Earth's crust.

Organisations like Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd have been the driving force behind the criminalisation of seafarers and for VStep to reinforce the erroneous negative images pedalled by people like these is  disappointing especially in a game such as ship simulator.

Shipping is in fact one of the "greenest" forms of transport available and rather than constantly making scapegoats out of the shipping industry organisations such as Greenpeace should be encouraging sea trade as a better alternative to road haulage and air freight.

I would be interested to see what would happen if some of the idiotic and irresponsible actions of Sea Shepherd in particular were to cause pollution.

[Denis]

Like in many other fields, those (most of the sailors, I hope) who act responsibly have to pay for the few who didn't respect the rules. That's how things works, everybody pay for the behaviours of few.

[Mad_Fred]

Informed opinions of individuals actually from within the profession work so much better for me than the emotionalistic opinions of conservationists.  

No offense, their hearts are in the right place, for the most part, specially with the younger population, but a little real research instead of believing what one sees in a hugely biassed TV show, for example, just works much better.

I don't fully agree that GP should have been left out on the whole, but I'm indifferent to it I reckon. I can't say I prefer it, but I also don't mind. After all, environmentalism sells too. And there's enough fans of the GP/SS things that will like it. And a lot of their work is commendable, too. It's not all bad, or at least, wasn't.. always. (At least with GP)

But.. before we get a standard response here, I'd like to ask the 'other side' to also do the homework first, so we don't get yet another mudslinging incident here, like with all of these topics so far..  


Thanks everyone.  


Regards,
Fred

[dodweb]

I agree with the Sea Shepard putting a lot at risk with their actions, but they are primarily an anti-whaling group, not an environmental group - they repeatedly state that their common dream is to see the whaling ships head for the bottom of the sea, clearly an environmental disaster. Especially down on the vulnerable antarctic coast.

I personally was never under the impression that the modern shipping industry as a whole appeared to have such a bad public image? It is surely not the case here in Norway, a nation that greatly rely on shipping.

When a bad apple is found, however, should it not be dealt with? Would it be better to look the other way and say that all is good? The way I see it, is (in this case greenpeace, but on other occations other organisations, either governmental or private) someone documenting an illegal act so that the 'bad apple' can be taken out of the basket. If anything, they are making sure the great reputation of shipping is maintained by sorting out the bad seeds.

Are there any specific events where either Greenpeace or SS attacked seafarers as a whole?

[Mad_Fred]

The way I see it, is (in this case greenpeace, but on other occations other organisations, either governmental or private) someone documenting an illegal act so that the 'bad apple' can be taken out of the basket.

Yes I agree, if they can gather the evidence to let the proper authorities step in and handle it, then more power to them!!

If they play judge, jury and executioner by attacking ships, clearly not within their jurisdiction, then they become part of the problem.

I always wonder if Sea Shepard fans that yell 'they should all be sunk' can imagine having a loved one work as a sailor on the ship to be sunk, just trying to make a living in a hard-knock economy, and if the are willing to sacrifice their loved one to save a fish..  (I know it's a mammal, but it went back into the ocean itself, so it's a fish by choice) 


Fred.

[dodweb]

Very much agree with you, both the part with observation versus taking the role of judge, jury and hangman, and the the wishing of ill faiths towards the crew of ships.

Oh, and a lol at the whalefish 

[Matthew Brown]

I for one sincerely don't want to see any whaling ships sunk. That would be horrible!
And I know SSCS would not sink a ship out at sea at all, as Paul said that he would never dream of sinking a japanese ship or causing life threatening situations for the whalers. But he likes to make them think that they could do. So they have the upper hand.
Although it doesn't seem like that anymore, as when I was talking to the crew they said that their last campaign was a tough one as the whalers are stepping up in their violence.  

And believe me, If SSCS weren't there the government still wouldn't intervene. As they rightfully say, if the government wont do anything then someone has to. The problem is out at sea and they are tackling it straight on. Where as the governments stay on land, they only ever come out when absolutely necessary!
Hopefully one day the Australian government will come to their senses a bit more  

And  I think Greenpeace do a great job too, hopefully they too can return to the Antarctic one day  
The more emphasis to stop the better.

Kind Regards

Matthew

[Sjoerd92]

I agree with Matthew.

And besides we created this economy world that is ruining the planet.
I mean look around there is no real nature anymore. And the little things we got are threatenend by humans to make money out of it we always want more and that just have to stop.
And there are manny alternatives, That is what Greenpeace is standing for.

For the sailors, Greenpeace has good captains they never meant to ram ships.

Sea Shepherd is another story, They wil do anything to stop illegal proaching.

[Mad_Fred]

And I know SSCS would not sink a ship out at sea at all, as Paul said that he would never dream of sinking a japanese ship or causing life threatening situations for the whalers. But he likes to make them think that they could do. So they have the upper hand.

How can a small fishing vessel sink a vastly bigger ship? Or even the RHIBS?  Yes, cause the Ady Gil sure showed them by running straight into their path! Upper hand? How?  

Although it doesn't seem like that anymore, as when I was talking to the crew they said that their last campaign was a tough one as the whalers are stepping up in their violence.  

Biassed words of emotionalistic people that have exchanged reason for passion. Sure, it's scary when they throw flashbangs at you... but that's a justified response to the threat they pose to the whalers. They defend themselves with legally allowed non-lethal means. And even then, SS personell seems to get hurt on their own account much more than by the whalers, anyway. Or do you not notice the blunders as seen in the shows? (logic dictates there are other incidents even worse that they never will show too)
 

And believe me, If SSCS weren't there the government still wouldn't intervene. As they rightfully say, if the government wont do anything then someone has to. The problem is out at sea and they are tackling it straight on. Where as the governments stay on land, they only ever come out when absolutely necessary!

Maybe they don't because there is no actual law that's violated if they stick to their legally allowed quota in the waters that they arre allowed to operate it. SS likes to pretend they're not in that area, but they are.

And someone has to? That is not a valid arguement. So if I am not happy with how the police in my country handles criminals, I should go out and get a agun and hunt them down myself? Sorry, not how it works. Paul is a pirate/vigilante. And by the actions against the whalers, a criminal. Meaning well doesn't change the cold hard facts.

And oh.. you have't ever heard of the navy? The coast guard? They are ALWAYS out there. But they don't come to stop something that is not illegal, no matter how many times someone yells that it is.


Your case is flawed, sorry. And as long as all your information comes from only the one side, it will be.

[Matthew Brown]

I don't think I'll comment on a topic like this again 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose 

I'm getting hungry for cookies so theres only one topic I can find that!

No hard feelings guys, it's never nice to have to talk like this 

Kind Regards

Matthew 

[moonrider]

Are we still talkin about a GAME or is worldwar III on its way.
People who are makin games follow a plan, it has nuttin to do with the real world, but this game shows that the makers like what greenpeace is doing. And thats good enough for me.

Rider

[Biggles1975]

I don't think Vstep is trying to say sailors are a bad bunch here. They just need to make the missions intresting or what would be the point of them and the ones that are based on real life events you have to ask how long ago did thease events take place it could of been quite afew years ago. And if your not a fan of thease missions well you just don't play them.    As for SS V Whalers it's 6of1 half a dozen of the other both sides can be as bad as each other. An example of the whalers being bad is aiming that dish device at the SS copter trying to disable the pilot endangering a aircraft is quite a serious offence but then again so is ramming a ship somthing SS did.

[Captain Spencer]

Guys,

These missions have been put there for a single reason - and that is for our enjoyment. Topics like this have been raised many many times before, but VSTEP are not trying to make anyone look bad here. They're creating a game so we can enjoy it, if you don't agree with the Greenpeace missions, then simply don't play them

Simples!

[Mad_Fred]

I don't think I'll comment on a topic like this again 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose 

I'm getting hungry for cookies so theres only one topic I can find that!

No hard feelings guys, it's never nice to have to talk like this 

Kind Regards

Matthew 

Just a friendly discussion from both sides mate, don't worry.

But you have to always look at it from both sides, and also take all the facts into account, hence me trying to balance some of the biassed stuff that you yourself, and other SSCS fans have written here on many occasions, as you cannot deny that some of it has been very edgy, in the past. And not very well informed.

But never wrote it with bad intentions towards you or the others. You just care for the environment and whales, and you mean well, I know that. There's no harm in that as such!!   

[Sjoerd92]

Just a friendly discussion from both sides mate, don't worry.

But you have to always look at it from both sides, and also take all the facts into account, hence me trying to balance some of the biassed stuff that you yourself, and other SSCS fans have written here on many occasions, as you cannot deny that some of it has been very edgy, in the past. And not very well informed.

But never wrote it with bad intentions towards you or the others. You just care for the environment and whales, and you mean well, I know that. There's no harm in that as such!!   

aaahw freddy boy 

[saltydog]

I'm kind of curious about the Greenpeace missions..

[cptnchris]

Guys,

These missions have been put there for a single reason - and that is for our enjoyment. Topics like this have been raised many many times before, but VSTEP are not trying to make anyone look bad here. They're creating a game so we can enjoy it, if you don't agree with the Greenpeace missions, then simply don't play them

Simples!

Well put.

[JOHN LYLE]

"if you don't agree with the Greenpeace missions, then simply don't play them "


I won't be playing them but I feel that they still give people the impression that merchant ships are the biggest polluters of the oceans. I have been accused of taking my "40 pieces of silver" many times because I work at sea for a living snd that is the exact words that have been used to me on more rthan one ocassion. I have seen some Green peace activists "try" to force a ship aground by blocking the main shipping channel of a harbour with rubber dinghies  (now how stupid is that?).  A few years ago some group blocked a chlorine carrier from going into Belfast because they disagreed with the cargo. That ship had only a fixed period of time to discharge the cargo before it would start to vent from the cargo tanks. It ended up going back to the load port, discharged the cargo, reloaded it and then back to Belfast at night so it could berth. These days seafarers can be fined and/or sent to jail for simple clerical errors in an Oil record book. I have seen it happen. The Sea Shepard ship Farley Mowat was impounded in Halifax Canada for pumping oily bilges into the harbour. The ship ended up being sold to pay the fine.
 I am all for saving the environment but these people just jump on band wagons without doing their research first.
 Yes VSTEP is developing a game that is fun to play but they should leave the politics out of it and the GP missions are a political statement. If they want to keep the GP missions then add a disclaimer that says that shipping is actually the greenest form of transport available.

[Ciroton]

~Ciro's Two Cents~

1) While I agree with Greenpeace's ultimate aim, I DO NOT support some of their methods to attain them. However, I won't let that stop me from playing their missions in SSE because, frankly, the Esprenza (SP) and Rainbow Warrior 3 are beautiful ships.

2) I believe Sea Shepard goes a little overboard in their efforts. Again, I support them trying to stop illegally/over fishing whales. However, I cannot stand some of their tactics, such as ramming and aggressively attacking other ships or their crews.

[Kevinmcg_ships]

Guys, it's only a game.

While I think it's nice to have some Greenpeace vessels in SSE, I'm sure it was never the intention of Vstep to make a political statement by including Greenpeace vessels in the game.

I'm sure everyone at Vstep who worked very hard on SS2006, SS2008 and now SSE only have one goal in mind - to give everyone the enjoyment of playing a nautical simulation game and to try make it as real-life experience as possible. In that respect, I think Vstep certainly have achieved that.