Topic: Portsmouth-Bilbao - Back in Business (Read 12572 times)

The Ferry Man · « **on:** January 15, 2010, 11:21:59 »

I have just heard that P&O are not going to continue their Portsmouth-Bilbao route at the end of September once the charter of the Bilbao runs out this year.

It is a sad day...

jim.smith · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2010, 11:32:08 »

Brittany Ferries run to Santander anyway.

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2010, 15:08:05 »

Notice on Website:

http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/_footer_About_about_P&O_Ferries_press_releases_PR_-_P&O_Ferries_to_withdraw_from_Bilbao_service_in_September.htm

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2010, 17:43:53 »

Without criticising PO too much, perhaps one could look at Viking Mariella- a year older, operating on just as punishing routes, but doesn't appear to be suffering the same problems as PO describe.

PO has been going to the dogs ever since Lord Sterling retired; A check on various web forums will describe the same old problems- poor onboard services that do not entice people to part with money... There was once a time when the likes of BF would never dare challenge the mighty PO- they lost the Western Channel through poor management, just as I believe they will ultimately lose the Eastern Channel.

This is a widespread problem in so many industries- why is it the likes of BF, SL etc are growing whilst other industry giants are scaling back?

jim.smith · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2010, 17:53:17 »

Perhaps they dont want their profits to decrease.I feel sorry for the workforce who will lose their jobs.I hope they will find employment elsewhere.

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2010, 17:54:34 »

Quote from: jim.smith on January 15, 2010, 17:53:17

Perhaps they dont want their profits to decrease.I feel sorry for the workforce who will lose their jobs.I hope they will find employment elsewhere.

Isn;t there a crew member on here somewhere...?

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2010, 18:03:09 »

Jim

The point being that one has to look at WHY they are losing money. Some here might say P&O should keep it on for XYZ reason. No they shouldn't. I've had to drop work in the past because it is not profitable, but that's always after I've explored every possible option to make it profitable.

P&O do not and never- at least not since 2002 ish. The onboard services are as stale as the restaurants. The food choice is normally very limited indeed. The cinema is barely out of the black and white era, the beer is prohibitively expensive and the onboard shop is laughable... It really has gone so badly down hill these past few years. I know I go one about Capt Ross, but as soon as he left, standards plummeted (about the same time as it stopped making profit- how odd).

All big companies now are incapable of analysing their own errors- just numbercrunching.... Look at the likes of Virgin, or Easy group.... "OK we're making losses... How do we make it profitable"... bold, creative decision making. P&O are stale and have been for the best part of a decade.

jim.smith · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2010, 18:36:30 »

I agree with you Stuart,when I was on the ferries it was Townsend Thorosen,the food was good and we were busy.I know I was a chef,also Norewegan flag.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2010, 18:48:48 »

But it isn't just ferries... every big company is just as bad.

It is all 'we're doomed Capt Mainwairing'

I am up against a big company at the moment and they don't give a hoot about customers, staff, law etc... But they don't want to do the work properly either.

Jakespin118 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2010, 19:25:21 »

Ashame for P&O, pulling out of Portsmouth completely

It was upsetting when the France services went but now P&O Portsmouth will be Extinct.

Jake

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2010, 20:08:58 »

P&O are like the dinosaurs of prehistory. P&O have failed to evolve- to seize each and every option that has come its way... Just like Cunard did from 1945 onwards.

It is symptematic of the lazy, inept and most importantly-weak- management of British companies that have driven them onto the (metaphorical) rocks.

Why does BF seem to think it can make money on that route? Simply because it is running its company more professionally and efficiently.

The same thing has happened in the airline industry... Go back 20 years and who'd have thought that a Greek bloke with a couple of 737s painted orange (or an Irish bloke with some blue/white 737s) would bring the mighty British Airways to its knees?

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2010, 20:21:13 »

http://www.businessandleadership.com/news/article/19114/leadership/icg-considering-best-options-for-pride-of-bilbao

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10343117

Captain Cadet · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2010, 09:47:32 »

Quote from: The Ferry Man on January 15, 2010, 11:21:59

I have just heard that P&O are not going to continue their Portsmouth-Bilbao route at the end of September once the charter of the Bilbao runs out this year.

It is a sad day...

who will take over $:-\$
i now think it will be stena

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:26:01 »

There may not be a take over

you have Brittany Ferries to Santander with the Pont-Aven and new Cap Finistere (though it looks doubtful that the CF will do minicruises) as stated earlier by Jim.Smith

I doubt another company will take over the Bilbao run...

Though I could be (and hopefully will be) wrong...

v.h94 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:57:51 »

Yes both her and the sister are great ships perfect for crusing ther may be ferrys betther adapted for mini cruises with the abilety to take one way passengers and cars like Silja Serenade that is specialy build for minucruises and also take cars/passengesr one way.

But when tallink took over Silja line they destroyed the silja consern so the didn't get Finnjet back Silja Opera did need to leave the fleet to and next ferrys to leave will be Silja Serenade and Symphony (This is just plans but they may hapen)

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2010, 11:35:27 »

The POB is not in good health (and I say that as a passenger and NOT a marine engineer)... Just looking at the smoke from the exhaust says that the engines are badly in need of overhaul... I haven't been onboard for a while, but I was in Portsmouth early December and waited to watch it come past and the state of the exhausts was quite frankly appaling.

P&O admit that the ship is nearing the end of its commercial life... oblivious to the fact that Mariella is older, has a pretty hard life, but is looked after properly by a successful ferry company.

As I've said already, P&O has been going down hill for ages. The board need to go out and ask why LD and BF are making money from Portsmouth where as P&O aren't.

I for one have not used P&O for ages- (nothing to do with the POB announcement) and I used to be fiercely loyal to them. But when I go to Europe now, I go with SeaChance... Cheaper, better service, nicer ships... P&O might say that SeaChance is running at a loss, but I question whether SeaChance is heading towards profit and P&Os expense... I wouldn't like to place bets on P&O.

P&O is just eeking out its existence on commercial inertia- just like British Airways, Marks & Spencer etc... If it wasn't for brand loyalty- then- 'game over'.

laganviking · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:32:09 »

Quote from: Nathan|C on January 16, 2010, 10:41:10

So Irish Ferries now have the Bilbao in September...What will they do with her I wonder, seems a good ship to do a minicruise from Ireland to say, France

She would have been good for the Rosslare - Cherbourg run, but surely Irish Ferries would only be shooting themselves in the foot, seeing they bought the Oscar Wilde a few years back for that run.

I agree with Stuart. P&O have been on the downhill now since i think 2004, when Stena Line bought a good wack of their Irish Sea services namely Larne - Fleetwood and its 3 vessels and the European Ambassitor (now Stena Nordica). There seems to be little interest in maintaining its 'empire'.

Wonder how long before they sell the Port of Larne? Or set about ruining the POR/H? Seems they are only vaguely interested in Dover - Calais, and even that doesn't appear to be going well.

Again, agreeing with Stuart - who would have thought that BF would have such a monopoly now on the Western Channel. I remember hunting for ferry prices out of Portsmouth to France...BF in comparison was rather more expensive than P&O, one such quote was heading on Â£100 cheaper on P&O, but didn't they ruin that too? Hats off to BF, as they do provide superior service.

As for P&O at Dover...as soon as LD get to grips with things - I say that they stand a pretty good chance of doing some damage to P&O. They seem to be doing alright for themselves at P&O's expense...as too are Celtic Link (not at P&O's expense though).

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2010, 14:15:28 »

The first time I was on POB, I managed to get myself a bridge visit and spoke at some length to the 1st officer; he was ex RN and I remember him saying that there wasn't much of a merchant navy left in Britain... You had the Royal Navy as smallest, then the British Merchant Navy and then the biggest was the P&O Navy... Perhaps that was true back in the 90s

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2010, 21:23:54 »

Nathan,

Personally I try to get my information first hand by practical experience and not by reading it of an enthusiasts forum.

I can only speak from personal experience and that is mainly from the Molly and the Rodin and also the shore staff at Dover.

SeaChance had always been a pretty shoddy affair, but drastically improved their image; po on the other hand were the British flag carrier and had the power and advantage over all others... Who would have thought that SeaChance would survive where Po has failed in its subsidiary markets, lost its cruise business, freight etc etc...

Your arguement really is a "they aren't the worst" rather than "they are the best". Is it not akin to asking which ocean, the Atlantic or Pacific, is the wettest?

clanky · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2010, 22:12:56 »

Quote from: laganviking on January 16, 2010, 12:32:09

As for P&O at Dover...as soon as LD get to grips with things - I say that they stand a pretty good chance of doing some damage to P&O. They seem to be doing alright for themselves at P&O's expense...as too are Celtic Link (not at P&O's expense though).

LD are in utter disarray at the moment, they have a very expensive charter in Norman Voyager (presently subchartered to Celtic Link), a millstone around their necks in Norman Arrow, and the Norman Spirit which they are running on a route for which she is not suitable.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2010, 10:14:30 »

Well, I'll be damned. The NS is still running to Boulogne! I just assumed that was a summer only route...

Why is this ship so unsuitable for the route though?

Boulogne used to have a very impressive service once and, whilst never as busy as Calais, was always a good port.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2010, 10:43:42 »

Perhaps clanky means that it is a large vessel for a 'lesser' route, with lower trade than Calais....

However, passengers (especially freight) will go wherever is cheaper... A full ferry at 'slightly below peeandooh/seachance rates' is a much more attractive option than a 1/2 full ship at slightly higher rates.

That is the way they used to work it, and airlines do etc... capacity used is FAR more important than price per unit... So if LD lines are carrying on with their impressive pricing, I can imagine them really doing the traditional channel operators some real harm.

Oh, and LD lines is only a subsidiary of Louis Dreyfuss... a company that seems to be doing quite nicely...

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2010, 20:24:53 »

See BF have started a bit of an advertising campaign for their Santander run this year... Full page ads etc.

So will someone PLEASE tell me how it is that BF can make routes pay when PO can not... Even putting a new(ish) ship like the Pont Aven on the route, when PO can't even afford to maintain POBI properly...

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2010, 20:25:44 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on January 23, 2010, 20:24:53

See BF have started a bit of an advertising campaign for their Santander run this year... Full page ads etc.

So will someone PLEASE tell me how it is that BF can make routes pay when PO can not... Even putting a new(ish) ship like the Pont Aven on the route, when PO can't even afford to maintain POBI properly...

And buying a second ship, which won;t even take mini cruises (for now at least)

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 23, 2010, 20:41:04 »

Yes, that other ship looks a bit... like it belongs on the channel, it just doesn't 'feel' like a replacement for my next holiday... The Pont Aven DOES look good, I admit (and I might try it sometime AFTER 28th Sept 2010)...

I have managed to book my place on POBs last return journey... Methinks that this is going to be a very busy trip... I hope Pee and ooh do the decent thing and have a proper send off... I expect water cannons and a lot of horn blasting from ships...

And can we re-word Rod Stewarts 'we are sailing' to rhyme with "Po are going. po are going, slowly bank-rupt... Slowly broke. PO are losing on stormy waters, to BF, Stena and LD. PO are doing- very bad-ly. Making no mo-ney for DP. PO are losing their fle-et. To be re-place by pontaven."

FOr anyone who doesn't know the Rod Stewart song, please don't try to make sense of the above...

DISCLAIMER: This is a urine extraction and neither the author or forum host is making a statement that PO is going broke. I don't think anyone needs to state this.

Author Topic: Portsmouth-Bilbao - Back in Business (Read 12572 times)

jim.smith

jim.smith

jim.smith