Portsmouth-Bilbao - Back in Business

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

[Stuart2007]

If you know that a ship is going to cost €22,000 per day then you can set your rates accordingly and the only variable is how much trade you get.

The ONLY variable??? Are you sure about that?

If you are operating your own ship and it breaks then you have to pay to fix it and that is hard to budget for, it looks like LD are going more and more along those lines with more charter vessels coming in and the Spirit being bare boated out.

On a dry lease you are responsible for EVERYTHING!!! Light bulbs in the cabin through to main engine failure... Everything means everything (unless specified otherwise). Perhaps you are thinking of wet lease Or even the apt named damp lease.

I have heard 50% full quoted as a break even figure for the racehorse class ships when they were on the Dover / Dunkerque run, but I am not too sure of the accuracy or of how it would apply to Dover / Boulogne on an LD service.

The figures vary massively, depending on who you speak to.

[clanky]

The Norman Bridge will be time chartered, which means that the owners will operate and mange the vessel at a fixed price (don't know the actual figure, but it is likely to be somewhere between €15k and €20k per day), which means that LD will pay the charter rate, plus hotel expenses such as food etc. they will also have their own hotel staff onboard, but the deck and engine crew will be provided by and paid by the owners.

I haven't heard the terms dry lease and wet lease used before, but I think what you were talking about as a dry lease is a bare boat charter where you pay for the ship and then operate it yourself.

[The Ferry Man]

So who pays for a stern modification to fit Dover/Boulogne then?

I cannot see the owners paying for that

[clanky]

No, if that was required then it would be down to the charterer, but the ship will not be modified for double deck loading, she has 2 internal ramps and can easily load / discharge 2 decks at once over the stern ramp.  The bow ramp is a bit more difficult as it is so narrow (if the bloody thing opens in the first place!)

[The Ferry Man]

Yes but as I said, the stern ramp can't be used at the new Boulogne Terminal - that is the reason the Cote d'Albatre went... (ok one reason)

[Stuart2007]

The Norman Bridge will be time chartered, which means that the owners will operate and mange the vessel at a fixed price (don't know the actual figure, but it is likely to be somewhere between €15k and €20k per day), which means that LD will pay the charter rate, plus hotel expenses such as food etc. they will also have their own hotel staff onboard, but the deck and engine crew will be provided by and paid by the owners.

I haven't heard the terms dry lease and wet lease used before, but I think what you were talking about as a dry lease is a bare boat charter where you pay for the ship and then operate it yourself.

A wet lease is when the owner operates it on your behalf, with your logos and tickets etc. And yes, bareboat is equivelant to dry lease... Dry/wet is more a aircraft term.

If LD are operating the onboard services and the owners are doing the operational side, then it is a damp or moist lease (a mix of the two).

So who pays for a stern modification to fit Dover/Boulogne then?

I cannot see the owners paying for that

The owners may officially pay it, but that will be reflected in the charter price. Otherwise it is the charterer... If it is a wet lease (sounds it) then it will probably be the owner, who will recoup the money from the leasee

[clanky]

Yes but as I said, the stern ramp can't be used at the new Boulogne Terminal - that is the reason the Cote d'Albatre went... (ok one reason)

Eeek!  I don't know, I can't see how they would get around that one.

I can't see an easy way to modify the stern ramp, it is also the stern door and forms part of the ship's watertight integrity, I think it would be cheaper to modify the linkspan.

Why can the stern ramp not be used?  I have certainly not heard anything about any modifications to the stern ramp.

Maybe they are planning on using the bow ramp??? again Eeek!, but less so than modifying the stern ramp.

[The Ferry Man]

The stern can be modified - the Midnight/Northern merchant both had the stern doors removedand new ones fitted with double deck access. The New terminal at Boulgone has the same style berth as the new ones in Dunkerque, twin deck with loading ramp. So unless they go back to the old Berth (and chances are the Brave is too long) and the old terminal isn't as well suited for freight something will probably have to be done, unles they do just use the single deck bow.

What is wrong with the bow door design on the Racehorses?

[clanky]

In short it's over complicated.

There are too many bits that have to do their thing in the right sequence.

[Stuart2007]

In short it's over complicated.

There are too many bits that have to do their thing in the right sequence.

That clears it up nicely.

[clanky]

That clears it up nicely.

TFM, I can't seem to find the PM I sent you, and I'm too lazy to type it again, could you possibly forward it to Stuart?  Ta.

[The Ferry Man]

Will do

[Stuart2007]

Thanks Clanky/TFM...

Err that DOES clear it up nicely (no sarcasm intended this time!)

[clanky]

Just a quick update, I am reliably informed the the Endeavour did berthing trials in Boulogne complete with her old (now refitted) stern ramp and was OK.

We shall see.

[The Ferry Man]

Okay, trhat is great news, though I am surprised 

[clanky]

Have never been to Boulogne so I am not sure what the issues are, only time will tell I guess.

Will be a few people with egg on their faces if she doesn't fit.

[The Ferry Man]

Well the Norman Bridge is on the run now.

She is indeed using her bow ramp at Boulogne, and the stern ramp at Dover

[Kapn Jonah]

Norman Bridge? 

[TJK]

Norman Bridge? 

http://www.ldlines.co.uk/bienvenue_Norman_Bridge.php

[Kapn Jonah]

Thanks  Couldn't find it on Google.

[The Ferry Man]

OK on Sunday, the Cap Finistere made her first crossing to Bilbao, arriving there today (she had a brief stopover in Roscoff first on Monday)

Its good to see the route back, although the ship operating it is considerably different to what she replaces...

[Stuart2007]

You call the cap finestere a 'ship'?

It's a river barge with big ideas.

But on a happier note, Princess Anastasia is now sleeping in St Petersburg after a cold run up the Baltic escaping from the evil clutches of her previous 'owners'*, who after 17 years of running her down finally realised that they were becoming a laughing stock.

* Sue me for slander/libel if you wish pee and ohno! Not the forum management. But we all know you can't because A) I'm right. B) Even if you persuade a defamation Court you're right the proportionality rule will mean you won't win a thing.

[--tractorman--]

It's a river barge with big ideas.

Hah i like that

[TerryRussell (†2012)]

Some specifications and a photo or two at:

http://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/fleet/cap-finistere

[Stuart2007]

Some specifications and a photo or two at:

http://www.stpeterline.com/en/OnBoard/News.aspx

A tough, well regarded cruise ferry that's as strong as a battlecruiser, as well known as Elvis, as big as a tower block, and will be my home for several trips this summer.

(note that unlike the un-finished cap finestere, it actually has a proper working stern- what happened? Did the workers knock off early the day they were building the back? I can't believe that they're sending out a big river barge into the Atlantic... Even the Pont Aven (a nice boat) doesn't like the Bay in winter, so what chance has a open river barge got?)

NB The above is my personal tongue in cheek appraisal of the cf. I haven't been on it and it's just an impression. I make no warrant for or against her sea keeping abilities nor her safety which, given BF's excellent record I'm sure is not really in doubt. But she's 'replaced' a much more popular ship and so I am in the anti-CF camp and will be staying there so nuts to anyone who doesn't like it and Marmite to anyone who does.