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General Discussion

[Traddles]

Hi berniek,
Try this:- leave one backspring rope fast and go full astern on port engine if you are starboard side to the quay. If you wait a while, the bow will start to swing out, and when clear enough, let go the spring and go ahead on both engines. In the attached picture she is swinging off the quay at 12⁰ per minute. This is how it was done when the tugboatmen were on strike.   This operation took just under 2m30s. as you can see in time elapsed, top right.

P.S. I have just checked the mission you describe. To get the effect I describe let go all moorings except the aftermost sternline and come astern on the port engine until the remaining mooring becomes a backspring. It will work, I promise you.

[Ballast]

That's a good method Traddles, didnt think of that one! This way you also wont risk that the vessel is going astern too much and will ground.

 

[Capt. Matt]

That mission irritates me I havent tried it on my new computer though, that may bring me better luck but yes it does take awhile, and Austin, VLCC Does NOT have thrusters, otherwise we wouldnt need 10 tugs when we go into the harbor

Cheers
Matt

And never thought of that traddles, Ill be sure to test that out

[eviss]

Hi berniek,

Just was simulating your problems with "Titanic Voyage to New York"

I appreciate everyone's responses but I still can't get Titanic away from the dock.Port engine reversed and starboard forward with rudder turned to port is doing nothing other than pushing the ship against the dock from which it doesn't move.

That will work eventualy, but as Sadsid said you must be patient.
As long as the movement of the vessel isn't wild or violent, there will be no damage (here in the SIM  ).
Master Traddles has offered some sound advice with the moringlines,
however in the SIM I find that (with the lines) is not working here as to be expected in real life sailing,
Where it is the way to go.
My personel try: a short burst forward, with full starboard rudder will free the aft of the ship from the dock.
In real life you would use the foreward-spring line to support that, a variable use from master Traddles advice.
Then "full" astern to stop the forward motion / preventing damage. when you'll have enough space:
Rudder full to port and all ahead 1/3 and manouvre the ship slowely out of the shallow water into the main fairway.
Adjust rudder, thust and speed as you would normaly do, to stay in controle.

The control reference chart shows using the colon and quotation keys to start the engines, which I've tried with no success. I can't really tell if these keys are doing anything.

It depends what kind of keyboard you use. I have a complete different keysetting (default) for that activity.
You better try the start stop the engine keys on a vessel with signaling lights to check that status First, before you apply the keystroke with Titanic. It could be : you swiched off !  

Hope you have enough tips, to sail the mission; and wish you a safe trip.

vr. gr. / kind regards, Erik

[Dave M]

Hi eviss,
You are right.
On some computers/missions, if you try to move with a spring rope attached then nothing will happen. I do the same as you but, if I still don't have enough room, I will go astern and re-set a spring rope to pull the bow out a little more.

Regards, Dave

[eviss]

Hello Dave,

Thanks, that is the fun part of this game, isn't it. 

You are right.
On some computers/missions, if you try to move with a spring rope attached then nothing will happen. I do the same as you but, if I still don't have enough room, I will go astern and re-set a spring rope to pull the bow out a little more.

If you've done the exercise in real, you can try, if it can be simulated, or even vice versa ! 

Then you know and be able to explain to the new members, how it CAN be done in ShipSim. 

That is having fun, doing it / making thing work ! 

vr. gr. / kind regards, Erik

[Dave M]

Hello Dave,
If you've done the exercise in real, you can try, if it can be simulated, or even vice versa ! 

Then you know and be able to explain to the new members, how it CAN be done in ShipSim. 

That is having fun, doing it / making thing work ! 

vr. gr. / kind regards, Erik

Hi Erik,
That is the fun. Being able to do it, and, helping others to understand how to do it.

Regards, Dave

[berniek]

Hi berniek,
Try this:- leave one backspring rope fast and go full astern on port engine if you are starboard side to the quay. If you wait a while, the bow will start to swing out, and when clear enough, let go the spring and go ahead on both engines. In the attached picture she is swinging off the quay at 12⁰ per minute. This is how it was done when the tugboatmen were on strike.   This operation took just under 2m30s. as you can see in time elapsed, top right.

P.S. I have just checked the mission you describe. To get the effect I describe let go all moorings except the aftermost sternline and come astern on the port engine until the remaining mooring becomes a backspring. It will work, I promise you.

.

Thank you very much for the information. However, after repeated tries there is no way that I can even get close to your 2m30sec time for the operation. Would you please be more specific about rudder operation during this manuever, and should there be any forward/aft changes to engines  to get the ship as evenly spaced from the quay as seen in your picture. If I were able to match your performance in 10 minutes, I would be thrilled.  Thank you again!!

[Traddles]

As the rudder is only effective when the vessel is actually moving it should be let in the amidships position during the manoeuvre. However, as has been mentioned above, some computers do not seem to let the ship move if there are any mooring ropes still made fast. Why this should be the case I do not know I'm afraid.

[berniek]

As the rudder is only effective when the vessel is actually moving it should be let in the amidships position during the manoeuvre. However, as has been mentioned above, some computers do not seem to let the ship move if there are any mooring ropes still made fast. Why this should be the case I do not know I'm afraid.

What computer are you using? How much RAM?

[Traddles]

Hi again berniek,
I am using a Compaq Presario computer, with 2.045GB RAM and an intel core duo processor of 2 X 2.13 Ghz. I have a Nvidia Gforce graphics card model 8600GT super.

I have looked again at the mission which is causing you problems and I attach 4 pictures.
1. Shows the ship at the start of the mission with all mooring ropes shown.
2. Shows all ropes except the aftermost let go.
3. Shows the port engine at full astern helm amidships. After just over 2m30s. The ship has come astern slowly and has started to cant away from the quay as the mooring rope becomes tight.
4. Shows her clear of the quay, both engines at full ahead and helm still amidships.
From this point onwards it is a simple case of avoiding the green buoy on your port bow and then steering her down Southampton Water.
I will also attach my Dx Diag so you can compare with your ownmachine. Perhaps you could try the custom mission "Titanic 2" which gives an easier place to depart from. You only need to get Titanic away from the berth and then you can see how she handles going downthe Water.

[Jakespin118]

.

[The Ferry Man]

.

 

[berniek]

Hi again berniek,
I am using a Compaq Presario computer, with 2.045GB RAM and an intel core duo processor of 2 X 2.13 Ghz. I have a Nvidia Gforce graphics card model 8600GT super.

I have looked again at the mission which is causing you problems and I attach 4 pictures.
1. Shows the ship at the start of the mission with all mooring ropes shown.
2. Shows all ropes except the aftermost let go.
3. Shows the port engine at full astern helm amidships. After just over 2m30s. The ship has come astern slowly and has started to cant away from the quay as the mooring rope becomes tight.
4. Shows her clear of the quay, both engines at full ahead and helm still amidships.
From this point onwards it is a simple case of avoiding the green buoy on your port bow and then steering her down Southampton Water.
I will also attach my Dx Diag so you can compare with your ownmachine. Perhaps you could try the custom mission "Titanic 2" which gives an easier place to depart from. You only need to get Titanic away from the berth and then you can see how she handles going downthe Water.

Thanks again for the time you've spent with this. It doesn't look like I'll be able to get close to the performance that you're seeing on your system. I've compared your DXDIAG results with mine and my system is just not going to perform like yours. You have a dual processor (2 CPU's) each running at 2.13 GHZ. I only have a 2.8 GHZ single processor. Your system is probably handling large amounts of data much faster than mine can.. We both have the same amount of RAM but your video card has 512 mb of display memory and I have 256 mb.  We both have plenty of page file space available. Our Nvidia drivers are both very current. Bottom line is that although it's fun to try to understand the problem, life is too short to spend more time trying to improve the way that the game is performing in this mission. Thank you again!

Best regards,
Bernie K

[eviss]

Hoi Bernie,

Thanks again for the time you've spent with this. It doesn't look like I'll be able to get close to the performance that you're seeing on your system. I've compared your DXDIAG results with mine and my system is just not going to perform like yours. You have a dual processor (2 CPU's) each running at 2.13 GHZ. I only have a 2.8 GHZ single processor. Your system is probably handling large amounts of data much faster than mine can.. We both have the same amount of RAM but your video card has 512 mb of display memory and I have 256 mb.  We both have plenty of page file space available. Our Nvidia drivers are both very current. Bottom line is that although it's fun to try to understand the problem, life is too short to spend more time trying to improve the way that the game is performing in this mission. Thank you again!

Best regards,
Bernie K

This way is the better way to understand your reply, i think !  

Good luck, trying the next challange !

vr. gr. / kind regards, Erik

[Stuart2007]

Sir Traddles,

I'm intrigued by your method of getting the dull-ship from the berth. Did they really do that when no tugs were available???

The sheering forces on the hull must have been immense. I know they use a similar method for ferries (especially Dover-Calais in the same environment) when they swing the stern out- the force is transmitted on the bow must be huge, but they are less than half the tonnage of the dull-ship.

Is there any evidence that this damaged the ship?

[Traddles]

Hi Stuart,
The method I describe is an old standard which was, and still is, used regularly. It works well for large and small vessels, however the modern ships with their bow thrusters and azipods have no need to do this kind of thing. With an old type of ship, a bit like me that is, the manoeuvre can be done with a for'd backspring and engine going ahead thus canting the stern off rather than the bow. This way it makes sure the prop/s don't get smashed. I never heard of any ship getting damaged doing this. There is not any particular stress involved. Always bear in mind to make certain that no one, including yourself, is standing inside the wire loop between the winch and fairlead. This of course doesn't apply in the game.

Angus.

[TerryRussell]

Hi Angus.

Regarding your earlier point about why the spring lines won't always work on all PCs, I think it may be down to the graphics card and PC performance, strangely. We know that a slow PC or one with a lower-spec graphics card will affect the top speed of faster vessels. I think that the lack of spring may be a similar effect.

Just wild stab in the dark (Blackadder used that term as a threat, rather magnificently, of course), but I think it is likely.

[Nathan|C]

Hi Stuart,
The method I describe is an old standard which was, and still is, used regularly. It works well for large and small vessels, however the modern ships with their bow thrusters and azipods have no need to do this kind of thing. With an old type of ship, a bit like me that is, the manoeuvre can be done with a for'd backspring and engine going ahead thus canting the stern off rather than the bow. This way it makes sure the prop/s don't get smashed. I never heard of any ship getting damaged doing this. There is not any particular stress involved. Always bear in mind to make certain that no one, including yourself, is standing inside the wire loop between the winch and fairlead. This of course doesn't apply in the game.

Angus.

Traddles/Stuart, is this what you are describing when they swing the stern out first..(Skip to 2:00)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc1_GkV9Tlg&feature=channel

Seems a pretty odd way for the ferry to leave, as she has bow thrusters...I have to admit I have never seen this ship leave like this before 

[Traddles]

Nathan,
Even though that part of the video with Pride of Hull is so short, it would appear that she is "Springing off" her berth just as you say. It is difficult to tell exactly, but could it be she had some sort of problem that day which prevented her usual mode of departure. Thanks for that though, much appreciated, one picture is worth a thousand words.

Angus.

[Nathan|C]

I have a DVD made by a friend who has travelled on the Pride of Hull a lot, and one brief shot shows the ship in a position like that. Whenever I have been on they have always swung straight off the berth

(Like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8YMge_jnA&feature=channel )

...maybe she did have some kind of problem in the past

I guess I should of asked about it last time I was on  

[Stuart2007]

Thanks Angus

I know when I was on the SeaChance Molly, I remember thinking that when they pushed the stern out, it *appeared* that the ship was pivoting on the bow- but I suppose the whole force isn't really transmitted through that one point.

Thanks for clearing it up anyway

[Traddles]

For those players who have an interest in this topic I attach a little exercise. The object is to take "North Star" off her berth and out into Red Hook Channel, New York harbour. The catch is that due to poor engine maintenance the astern linkage for the main engine is broken and you only have ahead power available. It is easy if you cheat and use astern power, but resist the temptation and don't This kind of emergency happens in reality and a good seaman will get round it. To do it correctly only takes a few minutes and illustrates the theme of this topic. I offer my thanks to mvsmith for the concept which he has witnessed in reality.

Angus.

[Stuart2007]

It is easy if you cheat

WHAT are you saying about us, Sir?

Angus, despite my earlier shock, I wonder now if this is similar to how the Wightlink (FASTCAT) boats cast off Portsmouth pier. I didn't actually see how they did it (or didn't pay attention!) but noted they don't have bow thrusters but still cast off as if they do (from a passenger perspective anyway)

[Traddles]

Now would I REALLY cast aspersions upon the totally honest members of this forum. However,  "If the cap fits". Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.