Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: CAPFlyer on April 11, 2008, 05:54:14
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When you release 1.4 can you please correct the controls on the Bugsier 2 and Ocean Star so that the throttle is not connected to the rudder control on the joystick? I have followed your directions and am quite surprised to find that when I try to rotate the controller via the rudder channel I also get a gradual increase in throttle until it is at full with the controller at 90 degrees. I do not understand why it was programmed this way as this is not how the real controllers are designed. The existing direct-thrust controls from pre-New Horizons ships (like the Red Eagle) work just fine. Your rudder turns the controller from -179 to 180 and the throttle sets your power. I don't understand why it was felt that the Azipods had to be done different. Both control systems work on the same principle - you have one control axis to set direction of thrust and a second axis to control the amount of thrust produced in that direction.
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I think that was meant to simplyfie controlling those ships for beginners but for me it is totally confusing. I fully agree with you.
Greetings Uli
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I agree with this completely, it's not realistic at all and it would be most appreciated if something could be done to correct it.
There has been some discussion about this here:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6614.msg70572.html#msg70572
pigdog
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Hi CAPFlyer,
V1.4 has been released—that’s what New Horizons is.
Marty
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Hi CAPFlyer,
V1.4 has been released—that’s what New Horizons is.
Marty
And that's totally wrong.
An optional add-on should never affect the actual product version number.
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And that's totally wrong.
An optional add-on should never affect the actual product version number.
Why not, surely it makes sense to update the game with an Add-On automatically, rather than having to update that separately too, yes?
The 1.4 update will be released as a separate download for those who don't purchase the New Horizons Add-On :)
Regards.
DJM.
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Hmmm, am i the only one, that doesn't have problems with the controlls of those ships?
I agree that the controlls of the Ocean Star are a bit confusing from time to time, but the Bugsier is a fine ship to controll.
And why aren't the controlls realistic? These kind of controll-handles are just modern.
Most new inland-ships have these kind of controlls for they're bow-thrusters. Works like a charm. :)
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I fully agree with Eemspoort. I have no problem at all with the controls on either of the two vessels mentioned. If you use the search facility for "Ocean Star" controls or "Bugsier2" controls you will find a great deal of help. Perhaps the system of control is not 100% as in reality, but lets face it, this is a computer simulator ::) and as such is a very near copy of the real thing.
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I agree with the last two posts...altho not 100% real...they make manovering fun and challenging :)
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why aren't the controlls realistic?
The control handles do look correct, infact they look lovely but I'm sure you are aware that a real pod control handle will not increase/decrease revs when turned to port or stbd alone and why only the port control handle? you have to move the throttle arm to increase revs and rotate the whole control unit for steering, you can not do this in the game this is the problem and that is why it is not realistic.
The only control that will do this on a pod driven vessel is a joystick or lipstick, which is a seperate control all together from the manual controls we have shown at the moment, this control device ties all the controls into one ie:both engines, both pods steering and thrusters (if fitted) to enable the vessel to move in a desired direction at very slow speed for (berthing in the Ocean star's case) or (fire fighting in the B2's case) they would not in my experience be used on an everyday basis for normal operations and would not be used for towing, infact if I remember correctly the manifacturers recommend they are not used for towing operations in case you loose an engine as the system needs both to operate safely and they do so with reduced power as it takes an amount of top end power to control the whole thing as one unit to keep the engines within their safety margins.
The system in the game at the moment only operates one pod and no thrusters so therefore again it is not realistic if they want to have this control then make a seperate control handle for it and leave the two handles we have at the moment to turn 180 deg seperately and the same for the engines as capflyer said the same as Red Eagle's max steering angle.
What are you using to control the B2 Eamspoort joystick, pad or keyboard?
What is fun and challenging about something that is not correct in a simulator? it may as well be that ******* ducky thing that we're sailing round in!
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If I understand correctly, you are controlling the azimuth with the joystick and it is not working correctly.
The mouse control however should be perfectly fine. This is also the only way to have as much control as possible, you cannot simulate azimuth controls with a joystick, since in a joystick direction and thrust will always be connected.
Unless you have some kind of more fancy joystick that can also rotate along it's own axis. Than you can setup the controls probably the way you want.
There was however a small bug in the 1.4 release of the add-on that will be sorted out soon, that might be the answer to your 'troubles'. And it is called "Azimuth arcade steering override". Basically, this will enable you to have direct steering and thrust with your joystick on azimuth enabled ships, like the Ocean Star and Bugsier2.
To make it a bit more bearable for you guys, I included the 'fix' in this post. The language file was simply missing a text (it always gets a bit hectic with translations near the end of development, you know). If it works, you should see the attached new option, if it doesn't, you'll have to wait for a bit :).
EDIT: I heard from a moderator it might not work well for you guys, if it doesn't, please wait for the patch. Oh and always create a backup :).
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Thanks for that Martijn, I will give it a go,
Can you just tell me where to put this file, do we need to overwrite the langauage en file or just add to it?
Many thanks
Pigdog
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The file must be placed in "xxx\ShipSim2008\Languages" after having renamed the original one for instance in Language_EN_origin.xml . If it doesn't work, you can then easily go back.
Don't forget to tell if it worked :D
Regards,
Luc
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Hi Luc, no it won't work it loads up to 100% then questviewer crashes.
Guess we'll just have to wait.
cheers
pigdog
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This is purely an observation. ::) The real controls on the "Ocean Star", or one like her, and on "Bugsier2" probably cost thousands of Pounds (Euros) whilst the ships themselves, possibly even "B2" cost millions. Here we have a simulation game which cost less than £30, and has umpteen different ships and boats in it. I use a mouse which represents my hand and it operates the controls perfectly well. (Even both port & starboard ones) The mouse came with the computer, wheras a fancy joystick probably cost more than the game itself. I really do not understand the perpetual griping about things in the simulator. If one really wants the exact copy of reality it is going to cost, at the very minimum, thousands of pounds (euros). When Stulken derricks for heavy lifts first came onto the market one had to have four winchmen and a man to operate hand signals to all of them. Nowadays there is a fancy "magic box" to control the whole thing in the hands of one person. However, that Magic box possibly costs a fortune, I would think. (N.B. to shift the hook from one hatch to another you had to lift the whole purchase up until it was standing on top of the derrick then swing the derrick through between the posts before letting out the purchase wire and lowering the bottom block to it's correct lifting position.) All this is called progress, surprisingly enough, which is exactly what Vstep are doing slowly but surely. As a seafarer myself, I was trained to make do with what was available, and this we were usually able to do, and remarkably well more often than not.
I have no intention to offend anyone, I merely make an observation, as I said at the beginning. However the simulator, in order to be commecially successful, must cater for a very wide clientele, from young children up to old fogeys like me. I hope I make my point. :P
Angus.
P.S. I will now step back and wait for the flak to fly. ;D
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Although this has probably been said, I'm going to type up how I'd like the controls to work with my contoller, as it's as close as possible to the real thing.
My controller is an Xbox 360 Controller. Just for those who don't know, it's almost the same as a Playstation controller in terms of function, except that it has analogue 'triggers' instead of buttons in the L2/R2 position. They work in the same way as a joystick as in, the harder they're pressed, the more power you get (like an accelerator pedal!).
Firstly, I'd like each Schottel to be associated to one joystick (on the controller), and for that to control JUST the rudder angle. That way, when I press the stick up, that'll make the schottel face forward which will make the tug/ship move forwards. When I press the stick down, it'll make the schottel face backwards, making the tug/ship move backwards. Left and right on the stick will make the tug/ship move sideways in whichever direction relative to where the Schottel's are situated (fore or aft).
I'd then like to be able to put the power for each unit to be put onto one of the analogue shoulder buttons. L2 for the port unit, R2 for the starboard. With all this said, to move the Bugsier sideways to the right, you'd push both sticks to the right, and press both shoulder buttons (which are the accelerators if you like!).
I've included a diagram below to simplify my complicated post! ;)
I'd also like to point out that this is the nearest that a controller could come to a real Schottel/Azimuth/Aquamaster control in my opinion. You'd get full directional capability, only instead of having acceleration on the same stick, I've put it onto the shoulder button. Even if you're controller doesn't have analogue triggers like my one (if it's modern, it really should to be honest), then it'd be exactly the same as pressing 7 and/or 9 on your numpad on the keyboard.
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Why not, surely it makes sense to update the game with an Add-On automatically, rather than having to update that separately too, yes?
The 1.4 update will be released as a separate download for those who don't purchase the New Horizons Add-On :)
Regards.
DJM.
I think there will not be downloadable version 1.4 for the 1.3 version users.
What this add-on adds to the core of the sim, not counting the external goods which add-on has it values (missions, ships, new enviroment)
That's right: Nothing :)
The physics, graphics etc are the same, so no need to free 1.4 version.
And this is still the point, Ship Simulator 2008 with New Horizons should be version 1.3.
And I admit this is off-topic for miles.
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Actually, you'd be surprised what changes have been made to the Simulator since 1.3. Some major changes took place, that's also why New Horizons has a different version number ;)
Regards.
DJM.
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Actually, you'd be surprised what changes have been made to the Simulator since 1.3. Some major changes took place, that's also why New Horizons has a different version number ;)
Regards.
DJM.
Multiplayer works quite nicely with 1.3 users..
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Good evening.
Just to revert to the original post (and also some of the follow-ups), the controls on Bugsier and Ocean Star are just fine. The error is in the way that CAPFlyer has his joystick and Ship Simulator configured, I think.
It sounds like he has "precision steering" set to on. Therefore whenever he pushes the yoke forwards, like everyone else he will tend to not push it absolutely straight. There will always be some sideways movement. With precision controls set to on, his left or rightward bias is cummulative and the vessel goes in that direction.
I use keyboard controls, mouse and/or twin axis gamepad. I don't use the joysticks for rudder or thruster motion. I use the switches. So, I can push forward and I go forward. But to swivel the thusters, I push the switches. Works a treat!
As DJM says, New Horizons contains a considerabel number of chnages that affect ship dynamics, the operation of the game and so on. A number of bugs have been fixed (although some remain and a couple of minor new ones seem to have been created - most people will never come across them I suspect)
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I don't think griping is the correct term to use here, nobody is throwing their toys out of the pram or stamping their feet like a spoilt child, topping derricks or using them in a union purchase configuration, they are just pointing out some experiences they've had that would benefit the game play for users who prefer a little more realism and point out a possible problem that may have been overlooked during the design of this latest edition.
As you quite rightly point out as a merchant seaman I too have made use of what is to hand and built my own controller using real ships controls and other odds and ends for a lot less than this game costs and it works perfectly with this game and any other I've tried it with, the trouble is with the lack of control configuration for people using joysticks,joypads and or any other control device and not anybody's joystick or controller in particular.
We all know the pods can be controlled fine with the keypad and or the mouse but that IS NOT THE PROBLEM a real ship is not controlled by frantically waving a mouse over a coloured circle trying to centre the steering or reduce revs especially on a powerful harbour tug so please let's stop going over the same ground with "it works fine for me with my keypad and mouse" we know it does but it doesn't with a joystick or other controller, if you connected a real azimuth controller to your computer the game will not let you use it as so, that is the problem, infact I've got some bits left over from my build so I will make an azipod control to show the problem (when I get time).
To answer a couple of other points that have been raised precission steering does not effect the problem it just adds to it, in my case as the real ship controls I use are precission enabled anyway (as in if I move the throttle or the steering controls an inch they stay there in that position until I move them again) with precission steering on if I move the control an inch the revs or steering angle just keep going up to max so I don't have it turned on.
Before NH was released I could turn the pods on the ocean star 360 deg and control the throttles seperately now I can't so for me this has changed for the worse and it's not ideal for all users, now I totaly understand that the game has to be for the masses to use and everyone has a keyboard etc but for those of us who prefer and are used to joysticks this is a really annoying problem, maybe it will be fixed I hope so.
Right I'd best pick those toys up now.
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Terry, I have to agree with Pigdog man. I love the game, damn fine. I just wish that I could control the Bugsier on my controller in a realistic manner.
Pigdog, the diagram I put together, would that be the way you'd go about doing it, or would you put the engine controls on the sticks as well (I think that would be really tricky to be honest, as then you'd have to be very delicate on the sticks whilst turning)?
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Okay, since it's obvious that my original post wasn't fully read, I'll say it again, but in point-by-point for easier reading.... :(
1) I use a CH Products Throttle Quadrant. I have it set up that the first 2 levers control rudder 1 & 2 respectively, the second two control engine 1 & 2 respectively, and the last 2 levers control thruster 1 & 2 respectively. I NEVER use precision controls, as much as this annoys me since all the controls "zero out" every time I try to type something in the Multiplayer chat (another thing that needs to be fixed ASAP as it severely affects the playability of the simulation).
2) I have tried the Bugsier & Ocean Star with both the "Azimuth Steering Override" on and off.
2a) With it off, my controls only steer the Azipods 26 degrees to port and starboard, but throttle operation is as expected (independent of Azipod angle).
2b) With it on, I can get 90 degrees of rotation and the setting of my throttle to "forward" or "reverse" of neutral will allow full 360 degrees of control. HOWEVER, when I rotate the Azipods left and right with even a small amount of forward or aft thrust commanded, rotating the Azipods port or starboard causes a linear increase of throttle as well, increasing as angle increases to give full RPMs at 90 degrees to both sides and 0 RPMs at 0 or 180 degrees. This is incorrect operation.
3) On the Red Eagle with the same control setup, I can properly set my thrust direction and thrust amount independently with no problems, I am requesting that this control scheme be used as well for the Azipod-equipped ships as this is correct where the "rudder" axis controls the direction of thrust (by setting vane angle or azipod direction) and the "throttle" axis controls the amount of thrust (setting vane angle or propeller pitch).
I am by no means a programmer, but I've used computers enough and I've done work specifications enough to know that fixing this is not a complicated nor involved process and I don't understand why the programmers chose to do thing the way they did.
BTW, "challenging" is not a proper evaluation of whether a ship's controls are done right or not, so please toss that excuse out the window and let's talk about the issue at hand. The linking of the throttle to the deflection of the Azipods from straight ahead or straight aft is wrong and should be fixed by the time the v1.4 download is released.
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Controlling the B2 and the OS may work fine with mouse or keyboard but the problem of controlling by joystick is that instead of reversing the pods the controller is jumping 180 degs and you never know where that point is. Also steering on reverse is a horror because when you reach a certain point the controller jumps on forward because the sim might interpret your manoeuvre as turning on the plate and your forward speed increases. I would be lucky if the controller direction would just follow my joystick commands and the pods should be made reversible like in real.
By the way the controls pigdog was talking abt is DP (Dynamic Positioning). It coordinates thrusters and propulsion to keep the vessels in a fixed position. This can be used also for berthing. If you move the stick forward the ship moves forward and if you move the stick sideways the vessel transverses sideways. this installation is very expensive and you can find it mainly on cruise ships and very luxury yachts (to avoid anchoring in places where anchoring is forbidden or impossible) and on special ships like cable layers, survey vessels, anchor handling ships .....
Greetings Uli
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Ah, NOW i get it! So your Throttle Quadrant doens't work well with SS08. Or the other way arround, as you please.
It's a strange problem indeed. But it's no use to keep asking for a 1.4 download, since you allready have that, otherwise you wouldn't know how it would work on the Bugsier 2. ;D
But that's just a minor detail. Let's call the update you wan't the 1.5 download. ;)
I don't think many people use Throttle Quadrants or alike products with SS08. So i'm afraid, that there isn't much info on this problem yet.
I just looked up on your Throttle Quadrant. Talking about reality, a Throttle Quadrant meant for plains, isn't very realistic to use for ships, don't you think? I mean, if you wan't to steer to port or starboard, you have to move the lever up or down. :-\ Same for the bowthrusters.
This is not meant as a negative comment, everyone is free to use whatever controlls they like.
Have you tried to use your Quadrant in combination with a regular joystick? So the Quadrant for engine control, and the joystick for "rudder"-controll?
Could you tell us, in what ways you can configure your Quadrant?
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Yes I use the throttle quadrant for engine and for bow thruster control and a Joystick for steering and stern thruster control. Ok I'm not happy controlling the thruster with the TQ and the Z-axis of my Joystick but I got used to it.
Greetings Uli
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Ule: i was asking this to the topic-starter, but thank's for your reply! So the problem still excists when using a joystick for rudder??
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I think VSTEP will release a free download to put normal controls on these 2 vessels due to all these complaints
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Well then, i just did a test myself with my Saitek X52.
When i use the throttle-handle for engine-controll, and joystick for steering, things don't go as planned.
When i only use the joystick for steering and throttle, things look much better, allthought it isn't as it should be.
So yes, VStep should get this on they're "to-do-list", to make controlls with joystick and/or throttle quadrant work like it should. :)
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It's not an easy problem to describe as jayshum and capflyer will agree but I can see the lightbulbs pinging on from here as more people understand what the problem actually is.
Well done Eamspoort for trying out the joystick and understanding our problem I wish more people would do this before posting replies.
Yes Ule the stick or lipstick I was refering to is indeed the manual control for DP but I doubt very much it would be on a harbour tug but it would definitely be on the ocean star, I have used them on harbour tugs but it's not linked to GPS it's just for manouvering whilst fire fighting.
I don't understand the whole flipping from ahead to astern business and then when you go to turn the steering it jumps back ahead again.
Jayshum, yes I think you're right about putting both throttle and steering on the sticks maybe a little tricky to handle I'd keep it as you decribed before.
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I've tried setting up my controller in every way possible to run properly with the Bugsier, and it's just not possible at all.
The way I currently have it (which works well, but severely prevents the tug from manoeuvring to it's fullest), is to have the left stick as a Rudder extending from 270-90 (far left, to far right), tied to both units. My right trigger (R2) makes them point forward. Now here's the problem. In order for them to point astern, I have to press the left trigger, and pull BACK on my rudder stick, which indicates to me that there's a problem with using a joypad/stick. I hope what I've said it's clear, if not I'll make another diagram later, busy right now!
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Good morning all.
Bottom line is that for me, I have Ship Simulator and my Saitek twin-yoke game pad working just fine. I can control Bugsier, Red Eagle, Red Jet, Ocean Star with good precision. Please don't change anything, Vstep.
If you don't like the way it works for you, change your configuation. Almost all joystick & gamepads have ways to reprogram them to make things more the way you want them. By and large, I expect the solution is in your own hands (quite literally).
Of course, no matter what controllers anyone uses, it wil not be "realistic" since you won't have many tons of metal underneath you, bobbing up and down, being blown by the wind and carried by the currents. You don't risk sinking and being drowned if things go wrong. This is a simulation, so at best it will only be a bit like real life.
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Hang on Terry, that's not a very fair comment at all if I may say so. There's quite a few people here who've recognised a problem with how the game (well the Bugsier and Ocean Star) work with Controllers. I'd therefore really like Vstep to look into this, possibly use my rushed-diagram to understand what we mean etc.
I too can use the Red Jet and Red Eagle just fine with my controller set-up, however the Bugsier doesn't behave as I'd expect. You say that you have it working just fine with yours, so could you post a link to your pad (as when I googled it just now, I found nothing that matches it), and perhaps post your exact control settings from in-game, as I'd very much love to have my controller working properly with my favourite ship in the game! Sorry if I come across as 'whiny', I don't mean to be. But you come across as very elitist when you make comments like 'Please don't change anything Vstep', almost insinuating that it is us (Pigdog and myself for example) who are at fault here. The controller I use works flawlessly with all other ships. I've changed it's parameters to suit ship sim better, and it gives me a richer, fuller experience than I get could ever get using a pesky, and in-no-way-realistic mouse and keyboard. So with that said (and hopefully no offence caused...), Please Vstep, as a HUGE fan of your Simulator, could you look into the problem that people are having with using the Bugsier with a Controller/Joypad? :)
EDIT: Was going to post this yesterday, but forgot, so I'll include it in this post.
If I understand correctly, you are controlling the azimuth with the joystick and it is not working correctly.
The mouse control however should be perfectly fine. This is also the only way to have as much control as possible, you cannot simulate azimuth controls with a joystick, since in a joystick direction and thrust will always be connected.
Hi Martijn. I'm not sure if you referring to a joystick in the sense of the tall, (usually) black, jet-fighter type stick, or one of the analogue sticks on a joypad, but if it was the latter, then the direction and thrust can be disconnected from one another, as is evident in many console-based First Person Shooters. In Halo or Call of Duty for example, the right thumbstick (/analogue stick, too many terms for them lol) serves as the player's head if you like, and allows you to look in any direction. It does not move the player in any way other than through 360 degrees on the spot where he's stood though, as movement (forward, backwards, and strafing) is all put onto the left stick. So surely it'd be quite simple to have a set-up in ship sim where as the Schottel unit could be positioned through a full 360 degrees, according to the direction that the joystick is being pushed to, whilst engine speed could be attributed to another button/control (i.e. triggers/shoulder buttons)?
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Terry with all due respect there does appear to be a problem with the way these controls operate with joysticks and other controllers, it's not a configuration problem, you may have your controls set up to your liking but I don't know how much experience of handling a real pod driven vessel you have, if it's not a lot then you will not know any different will you, you will assume they handle that way for me having worked on pod driven, water jet, schottel, voith and conventional driven vessels the way the B2 control inputs work at the moment are totaly alien.
I can control the red eagle and the red jet just fine too with my controller but the way the pods have been implimented into NH is not correct therefore it does not even remotely simulate anything no matter how much reprograming of controllers or arcade this and precission that you have turned on or off.
The idea of a simulator is to simulate real life all beit on a screen so the least I would expect is something close to the real controls so I know if I turn a certain control on my real tug it should do the same in NH and not do something else completely different, we are all aware I'm sure of the limitations of a computer based simulation but thats what vstep do they create simulations, they don't make fantasy shoot em up, alien killing, racecar driving, world war 2 recreating games do they? and what they have done with SS has been long overdue and they have done a very good job with it, nobody is complining, whingeing or crying about this they are sharing information with each other and hopefully the developers to improve a problem they have, it still needs input and guidence from people who know and handle these vessels on a day to day basis to point out certain possible problems that they encounter within SS to make this more of a simulator and to improve the overall experience for all users or they would have called it the ship driving game and we could all steer our ships with knifes and forks as control inputs and put the virtual kettle on to go ahead and the microwave on for 30 seconds to go astern because some of us don't know any different.
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Hi pigdof.
As you say, you don't know how much experience I have. But that information is out there. I suspect it may be a bit more than some of the posters.
But that's not really the issue. You have to remember that this is a 35 pound simulator not a many thousand pound version. Inevitably the developers have to balance reality against the technical capabilities of the computing equipment being used, the expectations of the average buyer of the simulator, the amount of time available to program things into the simulator and a hundred other things.
As you don't really have a ship under you when you use the Simulator, and don't have the assorted wheels, handles and levers to pull, push, twist and turn, it all has to go through a most unrealistic joystick, mouse or keyboard. Naturally some people will say "all perfectly OK for me" and some will wish it to be otherwise.
Me, I'm happy enough with it. I can and have reprogrammed my controllers to make it better for me, while accepting that this is not reality. ;D
Realistically, I doubt that this thread will have the slightest effect on teh programmers, one way or the other so perhaps we're all whistling in a storm. ;)
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Terry, you could be the captain of the Queen Mary for all I know (if you were you would probably agree with this post) but I'm not going searching for your sea going credentials and I wasn't questioning your knowledge of a given propulsion system as you say it's not an issue.
I do have the assorted wheels, handles and levers to pull, push, twist and turn
and it still doesn't work correctly.
I'm glad your happy with your set up and if it's that good start another post on how great it is or contribute here some constructive ways around the problem that other people have instead of trying to imply that everybody else is p***ing and crying for the sake of it, how have you set your controls up? what do you use? somebody's already asked you to give some details that might help.
As I said before we are all aware I'm sure of the limitations of a computer based simulation
it's been fine up till now and getting better all the time, it's just one thing that people are having trouble with, they don't want them to rewrite the whole of NH for gods sake.
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I'm glad your happy with your set up and if it's that good start another post on how great it is or contribute here some constructive ways around the problem that other people have instead of trying to imply that everybody else is p***ing and crying for the sake of it, how have you set your controls up? what do you use? somebody's already asked you to give some details that might help.
Pigdog, I have never accused anyone of anything. Please point to where I've done that and I will appologise profusely. If not, perhaps you'd reciprocate? Assuming you have what it takes to do that.
I did take the time to point out some settings that I thought might be usefully changed, if you'd care to go back and look. Those included some ways to modify the joystick controls and changing settings n Ship Simulator.
Perhaps you'd have the decency to review those and then review your statements in the previous post and see if you still feel that way.
Stop snapping at me and I'll be glad to help. I spend a lot of time on this forum helping people overcome their problems. But generally people ask in a much more acceptable way.
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Hello,
I have to come back on this one. I think that before the mudslinging gets out of hand, it should be remembered that this is a public forum, and as such people of all ages can, and do read what is posted here. If you do not agree with something that has been said, it is very unnecessary to start getting steamed up and letting go at others simply because they do not agree with what you may THINK is correct.
As I said in my earlier post, I suspected that there would be a great deal of flak flying around, and I was obviously right. How sad that we cannot behave in a civilised manner. I will no longer be participating in this particular thread as I feel it has lost touch with the whole ethos of the game. So I will say goodbye, and hope that is the end of the bickering.
NB. I mention no names as it would be rude to do so, but if the cap fits, wear it. :o
Angus.
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I totally agree with that statement Angus, very well said :)
Regards.
DJM/Carl.
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Thanks for deleting my post moderators. If you didn't like part of it, edit it. >:( >:( >:(
I think that maybe it's time for a change in moderating tactics. You stay so heavy handed on how you moderate and more and more users will walk away because they'll feel they can't get help without fear of their posts being removed and getting no help at all without ANY offer of assistance.
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Put a cork in it CAPFlyer. Were it not for the efforts of the Moderators, this forum would degenerate into one big sandbox—until the juveniles kicked all the sand out.
The only change needed in tactics is to start tossing more of the troublemakers out.
Marty
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Terry,
I feel your comments in your posts on this subject have been very dismissive this is why I have been snapping at you, you don't seem to understand or be willing to accept that there may be a problem and you do seem to throw the blame at the feet of others that have encountered it.
if you'd care to go back and look
I have read this post from start to finish and check it frequently and I know exactly whats been said and by who, I would not sit here for hours tapping away if I didn't fully understand the subject matter and feel strongly about it, as I do truly believe there is a problem and to have it dismissed as my own fault then you are indeed accusing me of incorrectly setting up my equipment and complaining about it.By and large, I expect the solution is in your own hands (quite literally).
I will apologise for my comments
how have you set your controls up? what do you use? somebody's already asked you to give some details that might help.
That was un called for and born out of frustration which I know can be easily misunderstood in text form and not the way to ask for assistance and I will also apologise for any strong or foul language used as this doesn't achieve anything.
I do read a lot of posts on this forum and I do know that you offer your help when needed, which I'm sure is appreciated by many users, I hope you can offer some more detailed constructive help in this matter so we can move on and all enjoy ship simulator.
Pigdog
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::) ::) ;)
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whats that supposed to mean?
That doesn't appear to be adult behavior does it and adds nothing constructive to the subject of this post.
thanks a lot Traddles.
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I'm not trying to start anything, but I can't say that I saw Pigdog do anything wrong to be honest. Surely we're all adult enough here to have an argument without taking it personally?
I think that the bottom line is that there appears to be a problem with the way controllers function with the Azimuthing Thrusters in-game. One person disputed that it was the game, saying it was us. As I'm sure anyone would agree, it's not nice when people don't believe you, even going as far to say nothing should be done about it. On that count, I apologise if anyone took offence to anything I said (but come on, we haven't just learned our alphabet have we?!). So, with all that said and done, could you post your settings please Terry? I've had a search just now, and everything I've found doesn't make a difference. I've tried with 2 different brands of controller as well now (Microsoft Xbox 360 Controller for Windows, and a Joytech one, old). Both work fine with the game, every ship except the B2 and Ocean Star. So I'll reiterate the point I made in my earlier post that I'd love it if this could be looked into, as it'd make the game that much better. :)
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One thing should be kept in mind in this spat. Joysticks of the type discussed work in Cartesian coordinates. Actual controllers of the type depicted in the sim work in polar coordinates.
A satisfactory solution requires an in-sim coordinate system conversion and joysticks that retain position hands-off. Hopefully, the first will be included in Ship Simulator 2009.
Marty
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To calm down all parties involved, isn't it possible to give us back the old way the pods worked before patch 1.4 (or New Horizons) as an additional option and keep the present settings for those who love it?
For me (may be that belongs to future requests....) the best solution would be that the user should be able to create some kind of controller-profile for each Simvessel.
Greetings Uli
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Good point Ule,
Going back to the previous settings and keeping the current ones as well for those who prefer them would be an idea and would fix the problem we have, to get back the 360 control as you have on the red eagle and loose the auto throttle on the port hand steering control would solve it.
I believe they have changed some of the dynamics for some of the ships and in turn the way you control them so as long as it didn't effect that I don't see why not, just more work for the developers but could be a patch later on.
Having a controller profile system would be a nice idea but as you say we may not see this until future shipsims are released but another way would be to seperate precission steering and precision engines and thrusters etc, that way you could use precision enabled joysticks or other controllers for certain tasks giving you far more options than at present.
pigdog
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I'm pretty sure this is a silly question, but here goes..
I've had NH a few days, and I still can't figure what the red part of the throttle does on Bugsier.. ::)
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That is the reverse thrust ;)
Green is for forwards and red is for backwards ;)
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That is what one would expect...but going full in the red doesn't move the ship an inch..
edit: if I understand correctly, after reading various other posts, the red bit doesn't do anything at all (except make a lot of noise... ;) )
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Well, at the "Bugsier 2" is no reverse gear! You have to turn the whole thruster to get backwards thrust. That's how it works in real. Unfortunately the developers couldn't (or wouldn't.. ::)) implement the correct levers to the tug, they are of course without any red or green parts and you can push the stick just into one direction. At the "Ocean Star" we could have a reversing system, because she is electric driven. So can choose, if you want to turn the azipod or reversing the prop's spin.
Best regards