Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: dharl on December 20, 2007, 10:47:45
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I think it is important that consequences of your actions are shown in computer games as this shows that if you do something wrong then something bad can happen!
But i am not keen on sinking the Titanic, as nearlly 1500 people died in this incident, but it is a nice challenge using this fine vessel in SS.
The main reason i brought this up is because last night a tug capsized in a accident berthing a ship on the Clyde and of a crew of 4 only 1 man survived.
HAve a look at the link below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7152965.stm
Please answear the question Yes or no and please leave a comment!
Thank you very much and Happy, Safe Sailing! ;D
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I think there is a danger of mixing objective and subjective opinions together here...
For the moral outrage part- you could say the same about any simulator- flightsim, railsim, etc- or even a young child playing with matchbox cars and who smashes them together in a mock crash.
Are you asking whether vstep should have included the sinking function or whether people should be responsible with sinking when it comes to making youtube videos?
It is always a tricky point- especially after reading of a vessel sinking like that. Basically, it comes down to whether 'deliberate intent to cause offence', imho.
Stu
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I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.
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I have heard of a car game in which it is possible to crash your own car..
This is very disturbing...A man in Hamburg had a car accident
The link is here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHampf1bbmE
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I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.
I think you are right, i think the simulator should be the same as the real world. that's why it's called a simulator. :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHampf1bbmE
Thank you all for your comments so far! That coach/car crash was frightning...especially as the car driver didnt stop either!! :o
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Yes, that was a naughty car driver..
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Dharl,
There were a lot of posts in the past asking for more realistic sinking, or bemoaning the fact that they couldn’t sink ships.
My view on sinking can be summarized by—tried it once…didn’t like it.
I suppose sinking simulated ships does provide a more desirable outlet for kids than spraying their classmates with automatic weapon fire.
Marty
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I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.
Agreed and voted YES too, it's a sim, and a sim needs realism. But I do hate how some kids are only playing this sim (so it seems) to sink ships and make screenshots or videos of these events.
For all I care the message "game over" could be given even sooner. As you can't stop sinking anyway, once it occurs. It's a bit of an issue. Compare it to FS. (Well I havent played FSX, but FS9 and all lower I have) FS has crashes, but they are not modelled/animated much. No huge explosions or detailed wreckage. And if you overstress your plane then it just says "Game over" too. No wings falling off, no tumbling burning wreck going into the ground like a dart... Why should it, you have failed the objective allready anyway. 0% succes, no need to go on.
The object of the sim is to survive, not to die. So please kids (talking to the sinking nutts), Think about what you are simulating if it was real life. I grew up without a computer, till I was like 14 or so. But if I see the young kids in my family nowadays, that grow up with them.. I just worry.. Every free hour is spent at te computer, killing/blowing up/beating/running over/some other lethal thing, each other on the internet. And the language that flies across the screen... I Blame the parents first, don't get me wrong.. but still... The future is gonna be interesting, to say the least.
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Hi
No offence or anything, but I think its very interesting to watch a liner sink. It is basically amazeing how they sink. I am not saying its cool though, I know its not a good thing,
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Plus I think mad fred is right. Small kids are allways spoilt by playing these gun games online. I think it should be illieagel, I mean, games like Abuse, Caos Faction. Even Runescape.... They are just training kids to kill people when they are older, which is not a very good thing. And what is worse, is that some of these games have memberships were you pay and get more facilities. The thing I hate, is seeing people waste like £15 just to upgrade a killing game for 1 month.
As for Ship Simulator, ships are easy. If you dont want the sinking facility, dont download the patch, or simply dont ram your ship anywahere. Its quite easy really, but all the same, Same thing I said. If people sink sink sink and sink, they are gonna become wreckers or something and watch ships go down and watch their crew die.
Something good about the sinking facility however, is that people who are training for real life sailing can try not to bump into things and avoide sinking. If they did not have the sinking faciliy however, and the bumped into things, they would just say "oh well who the cares nothing is gonna happen", and then comes the time when they are captaining the biggest ship in the world and the hit rocks. They go "Oh well who cares" like they did in the game. And a few hours later they would find themselvs dead among another few thousand people, or if they are lucky, they would sit shocked in the lifeboat saying "Wow! I never knew that ships could dive! How did it do that?" And why do they say that? well, because Ship Simulator never did it, so why should the real thing? Simulations are for realism and prepareing for real life. So people, you need the sinking facility.
I can explain this with the Titanic. They thought the ship was unsinkable. (not the sensible people anyway) so when she hit the Iceberg, No-one cared exept the crew. It has also been proved by some survivors that some steerage (Third class) started playing football with the ice that had broken of the iceberg and landed on the deck! Then in the next 10 minuits they find themselvs rushing about the boat deck in search for safety, but they go down with the ship. And as they do so, they hear people from the lifeboats saying: "Wow! I never new the Titanic could do that! That ship was supposed to be unsinkable!"
After the Titanic's tragedy, the Britannic was thought to be even more unsinkable because she had two coats of steel. And what happend? Halfway through the voyage they hear a large explosion and apparently, the unsinkable ship sinks in just 55 minuits! and people go: "Wow! I never knew the Britannic could do that!" While some people get ripped up by the rotateing propellers.
So you can see why we need the Sinking feature. It helps us master our captaining. Your question however, was why do people want to sink ships. Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms. Some people sink ships because they want to make a story. But why would people sink ships for entertainment? Wel, it just means they are gonna becaome wreckers in later life and simply wreck some ships.
Some think its onteresting. I do, I think that its amazeing how a big liner sinks. Im not saying its fun to watch, Im not saying its cool, but Its just My opinion. However, this does not mean I do it on the sim. What our ships for? Sinking? no. They are not. They are to carry people from one place to the other, or carry cargo from one place to the other. And thats what Sip simulator is for as well. Sinking ships are dangorus and bad things. I mean even a small tugbot capsized the other day, and only 1 out of four people survived A little tugboat!
Haveing the V1.1 patch, you can try to avoide crashing into obstacles and complete a great voyage. As a matter of fact, I have two sinking videos on Youtube. One is acctually a part 1 of a story. The other is when I accidently hit an iceberg with the Latitude, So I though I should film it. But the bad thing was, I had to start the mission all over again.
I hope I answerd your question
Captain T.
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Sinking ships may feel like the effect of drunks/alcohol or mountain hiking or extreme sport. It's adrenaline! And it may just get peoples around you to thing that you are totally insane or mad. :P
I'm also fascinated by huge stuff, like big bulldozers, big ships, styled trucks with huge engines, and all that is gigantic, fascinating and breathtaking.
I also get fascinated when I watch the madness from Mother Earth where weather goes crazy and you just stand there and watch it with big eyes and open mouth. I guess it's all human. But for some it may get them to break this "hidden" invisible or visible edge where you get a "kick" of doing something illegally, like killing each dog in your neighborhood because you find this so exited and "kicking".
That's when you adrenaline is starting to go far out of control.
So sinking ships in a game is probably just adrenaline, it's interesting for someone and totally unaccepted for others. I think you have to understand the difference between reality and non-reality. This is a computer game that is made up with computer code. If you sink a ship in Ship Simulator well.. then you just kill some computer code. But if you do it in the real world... well... then it's in another dimension and you may just kill people by doing that (included yourself).
In other words: Ship Simulator = computer game (bytes of code). Real word & real life is something else (more serious stuff). ;)
Humanity breaks new edges when it comes to technology. Maybe someday we melt together with the virtual world we find in computer games and simulators. Maybe some day you may end up in jail for killing a virtual person. I hope that this will never happen... because... I've just killed a couple of virtual soldiers in Crysis :P :P
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I voted yes cause it is just a game to have fun on and it's not like we want any ships in real life to sink! It was mentioned already but I would like to give my opinion, thankyou.
Happy Christmas and a happy new year!
Nathanael
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Thanks all for your opionions! :)
As a profesional seafarer it was the loss of the tug in Scotland which prompted me to start this thread. I have actually used that tug in the past to help me dock on the Clyde a few years ago and so the loss of the 3 men, including her Captain, a week before Christmas hit home!
Happy Christmas to all and a happy and safe sailing to all in 2008!
:D
brgds
David
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Your question however, was why do people want to sink ships. Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms.
If I post a video of an airliner crashing into the twin towers in FSX and call it a tribute on youtube, would you think I'd get many negavite comments from Americans?? Or if I 'd make a trainsim mod and explode a train in Madrid, ripping up a load of virtual travellers, would the Spanish be delighted with this?? I think calling such things a tribute is a bit disturbing. But maybe that's just me.
Recreating a terrible disaster is never a tribute, as far as I am concerned. I know this is just a game, I know it's not real. I know there aren't actually people dying or real ships sinking, but it's what's in the minds of some people, that makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not just here, but in many many games and sims. I read stuff on forums written by young people and just can't belief some of it. Some people just have sick thoughts. And as far as I see around me, the age of computers and internet has fueled these immensly.
So yeah, even though there is no real harm done, it's the thought that counts, in my book.
On the lighter side of things, Merry Christmas, safe sailing and lots of happiness and good health for 2008!!
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Fred,
There are many of us who will agree with you totally. I think it is a sad world we live in nowadays, perhaps if some of our younger members really knew what war and disasters are really like they would think differently. however it takes all sorts to make the world, I just say:- "Thank goodness I'm not that way inclined" ::) ;)
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I've always been of the opinion "with age comes experience, with experience comes the ability to decide what is truly acceptable, and what's not" ;)
I guess we all learn that eventually eh :)
Despite how bad things get, there are always people that shine above it I believe :)
Well, that's my philosophical outlook for the day ;)
Best regards to all, and seasons greetings ;D
DJM/Carl.
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A long time ago a monkey discovered he could kill another monkey with a stick..
Mankind hasn't evolved so much since then.. :)
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Mankind hasn't. The sticks sure have.
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Nice one RJK, how very true :( :'(
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A long time ago a monkey discovered he could kill another monkey with a stick..
Mankind hasn't evolved so much since then.. :)
2001: A Space Odyssey ;)
Great movie ;D
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absolutely right.. :D only then it was a bone.. ;)
I agree, great movie..
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If I post a video of an airliner crashing into the twin towers in FSX and call it a tribute on youtube, would you think I'd get many negavite comments from Americans?? Or if I 'd make a trainsim mod and explode a train in Madrid, ripping up a load of virtual travellers, would the Spanish be delighted with this?? I think calling such things a tribute is a bit disturbing. But maybe that's just me.
Recreating a terrible disaster is never a tribute, as far as I am concerned. I know this is just a game, I know it's not real. I know there aren't actually people dying or real ships sinking, but it's what's in the minds of some people, that makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not just here, but in many many games and sims. I read stuff on forums written by young people and just can't belief some of it. Some people just have sick thoughts. And as far as I see around me, the age of computers and internet has fueled these immensly.
So yeah, even though there is no real harm done, it's the thought that counts, in my book.
On the lighter side of things, Merry Christmas, safe sailing and lots of happiness and good health for 2008!!
If you are immitateing a real event (If an airliner DID crash) then yes I certainly would Mad_fred
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Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms.
If you are immitateing a real event (If an airliner DID crash) then yes I certainly would Mad_fred
So you are saying, the Titanic never sunk? :P
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So you are saying, the Titanic never sunk? :P
What ARE you on about? Of course Titanic sank! Sad event, I know, but i Am afraid we can't change the past.
Once again. I say:
If you are immitateing something that really did happen, something that killed millions of people, makeing a video of it and putting it on youtube then it is a tribute. Unless you call it something like: "Titanic sinking haha to the drowned people!" Tributes are made to remember what happened, to show that the event should never be forgotten. To show respect to people who were killed. The collapsing of the World Tradeing Center, The sinkinfg of the Lusistania, The Titanic, The Britannic, World war 2, world war 1, The derailing of a train... All events that should never be forgotten...
It is a sad world.
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Captain Titanic,
How to pay tribute to victims is a matter of opinion, and I don't quite share yours.
It is not the way you express it that is disturbing, although you don't let much room for others to express a different opinion, it is that you give the impression it would be all right to use the memories of such events without restraint.
What ARE you on about? .....
Once again. I say: ....
You are only partly right, because in my opinion, it is not only remembrance of sad events that counts, it is also that the memory and the dignity of the victims needs to be respected.
The first thing to be addressed is the agreement of survivors and relatives, to the memory of loved ones being used in the way you describe, ie being imitated in a Youtube video or any game. They didn't necessarily want their woe being made public.
For instance, having been involved in accidents where people drowned, I would hate that...
With their permission, of course, there would be no moral obstacle to such a publication.
Regards,
Luc
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Well said Luc,
I would add that any re-creation of an actual disaster that does not, in some way, add to our knowledge and understanding of the cause, is suspect of prurient motive. To disguise it as a “tribute†is unconscionable.
Marty
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Yes I agree. These things can not be called tributes and I also very much doubt that the makers of such videos intended it that way in most cases. And if they did, I think it's disturbing indeed. It only shows me that they have no understanding whatsoever about how the families and friends of victims feel.
And as to my remark about that contradiction, Captain Titanic, I think I may have misread something, I thought you meant to say that it would be offensive to recreate real events. I now think you meant that recreating these events could be considered a tribute. So sorry, I misunderstood.
I do however not share this opinion. I would hate it - HATE IT - if I would see something on youtube simulating the death of a loved one and would find out where that person lived and force feed them their computer.
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Agreed and voted YES too, it's a sim, and a sim needs realism. But I do hate how some kids are only playing this sim (so it seems) to sink ships and make screenshots or videos of these events.
For all I care the message "game over" could be given even sooner. As you can't stop sinking anyway, once it occurs. It's a bit of an issue. Compare it to FS. (Well I havent played FSX, but FS9 and all lower I have) FS has crashes, but they are not modelled/animated much. No huge explosions or detailed wreckage. And if you overstress your plane then it just says "Game over" too. No wings falling off, no tumbling burning wreck going into the ground like a dart... Why should it, you have failed the objective allready anyway. 0% succes, no need to go on.
The object of the sim is to survive, not to die. So please kids (talking to the sinking nutts), Think about what you are simulating if it was real life. I grew up without a computer, till I was like 14 or so. But if I see the young kids in my family nowadays, that grow up with them.. I just worry.. Every free hour is spent at te computer, killing/blowing up/beating/running over/some other lethal thing, each other on the internet. And the language that flies across the screen... I Blame the parents first, don't get me wrong.. but still... The future is gonna be interesting, to say the least.
I just found ot something wrong. Sometimes you CAN stop a ship from sinking. Close the watertight doors... and maybe the water will spread no longer. I remember reading that in the news i dunno the ships name, but the crew stoped it from sinking.
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So which keys do I hit in SS2008 to close them? :P
If there were to be such a feature then my remark would still be true, just a bit later, when such measures are not effective, for instance, when you are too late, closing them. So that remark of yours is a bit irrelevant and doesn't effect my opinion in any way.
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Well I DONT agree... I mean. Some poeple just want to tribute to the liner ONLY. Not to its people. Because she was a beutiul ship (Titanic) Not just a blob of iron floating in the sea. >:(
And can you go down and ask her "can I make a tribute video about you?" No. You dont. otherwise, Ship Simulator 2008/2006 have to even do that its self. Dive down to the Titanic and say "Hello. Can we include you in a game please?" No. I dont think so. Nor can youn go to a grave and say "Hello. Can I make a tribute video about the event that killed you..." You dont expect a ghostly answer from the Heavens to say "Yeeeeeees!" or "nooooooooo" do you? People cant just go around asking every single relatives from people who died on that ship PLUS the few people who survived about if you could make a tribute and put it on youtube! Its stupid. You could have to travel to Africa, America, Austraila. And maybe you take a ship from Austrailia to London to ask the last relative that you havent asked... and your liner sinks. You die. And who knows were you go. You cant answer some guy who is at your grave... asking if he can make a tribute can you?
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So which keys do I hit in SS2008 to close them? :P
If there were to be such a feature then my remark would still be true, just a bit later, when such measures are not effective, for instance, when you are too late, closing them. So that remark of yours is a bit irrelevant and doesn't effect my opinion in any way.
You dont even know what KEY? lol for heavens sake its Alt and F4.
Nah just jokeing. Dont try it I think it closes down Ship Simulator alltogether...
Mad_Fred you are REALLY getting on my nerves. First you post some random comments saying "so Titanic didnt really sink..." and now you post this silly question. If watertight compartments existed in Ship Sim and you could explore them in walkthrough mode, there would bound to have swithes to close them. Maybe not now. Or in a later patch.
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I know how you think about it, and you can have your own opinion, I respect that. I just dont agree.
Do you ever visit airshows.. You know how they do "tributes" to the old planes of WW2?
Do they graciously fly these spitfires and hurricanes and lancasters and such to show them off.. or do they shoot at them with flak and bring them down?
I think, if you really want to make a tribute for the Titanic, with the one in SS08, you don't sink it, but make a really nice video of it SAILING it, and maybe comin into new york harbor.. so that her journey finally gets completed. I just don't think about a tribute and think "sinking ships". Even though it's for "her" and not about the people. Do you think a ship would like to sink, if we hypothetically act as if it was a living being?
Just my opinion though, and you are entitled to yours.
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You dont even know what KEY? lol for heavens sake its Alt and F4.
Nah just jokeing. Dont try it I think it closes down Ship Simulator alltogether...
Mad_Fred you are REALLY getting on my nerves. First you post some random comments saying "so Titanic didnt really sink..." and now you post this silly question. If watertight compartments existed in Ship Sim and you could explore them in walkthrough mode, there would bound to have swithes to close them. Maybe not now. Or in a later patch.
I know about alt F4.. and have so for many years. :)
I know I misunderstoond a previous post, but if you had read mine a few up, then you had known this. I misunderstoon and apologized. Not trying to get on anyones nerves, just saying what I think about the matter.
My remarks are not silly.. yours are. Why start about these doors in relation to the point I made, when it a) does not change the point I make and b) doesn't exsist in SS2008. you have to read more careful!
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I know about alt F4.. and have so for many years. :)
I know I misunderstoond a previous post, but if you had read mine a few up, then you had known this. I misunderstoon and apologized. Not trying to get on anyones nerves, just saying what I think about the matter.
My remarks are not silly.. yours are. Why start about these doors in relation to the point I made, when it a) does not change the point I make and b) doesn't exsist in SS2008. you have to read more careful!
No. I dont have to read more careful. I get the idea. And I dont read silly comments (I dont read my own! :D) anyway could we simply STOP this stupid arguement please. And just get the point that if anyone wants to make a tribute to the Titanic and put it on youtube, they can.
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And just get the point that if anyone wants to make a tribute to the Titanic and put it on youtube, they can.
Unfortunatly, yes.
I'm sorry, It was not meant to offend you or to be taken too personal, I didnt know you'd get all worked up about it, sorry mate...
We'll call this one finished then. I just frown upon the whole sinking addiction some poeple seem to have. Up till now it was not affecting me but since multiplayer these kind of players have found new potential.
Though I am sure you will not be like that, I know you're coming from another angle, no worries.
I apologise if I have gone too far.
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Yes. Ok I misunderstood to. You say that it would be bad to but a tribuet to a person dieing on the Titanic. I agree with you! I mean to say this:
If anyone wants to post a tribute to the LINER. (THE LINER SINKING (NOT TO A VICTIM), THEY HAVE PERFECT RIGHTS.)
Do you a,so mean to say that you regret the film TITANIC? Afterall, they have people who died (Captain Smith, James Moody, Harold bride...)
I mean of COURSE! Who would post a video containing an animation of Captain Smith dieing? What I mean is the LINER! Lets say you dont film any passengers on it, but you film the liner only, breaking into two, and sinking.
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Unfortunatly, yes.
I'm sorry, It was not meant to offend you or to be taken too personal, I didnt know you'd get all worked up about it, sorry mate...
We'll call this one finished then. I just frown upon the whole sinking addiction some poeple seem to have. Up till now it was not affecting me but since multiplayer these kind of players have found new potential.
Though I am sure you will not be like that, I know you're coming from another angle, no worries.
I apologise if I have gone too far.
No you havent gone to far. And I am not offended. I am just tired out.
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We are starting a whole new topic on a post altogether! We are in "Why do people like to ahve ships that sink?" But here we are argueing about tributes! This is just weird
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Oh well, threads sometimes have a tendency to go off topic a bit.
Back on topic then!
So why I would like to have a ship that can sink?
Because real ships can sink!
Simple ;D
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For the record:
Harold Bride survived and sold his story to The New York Times for $1000. His employer, the Marconi Co., sent him a message that they would “…take care of you. Keep your mouth shut and hold your story. It is fixed so you will get big moneyâ€.
Bride assisted the Carpathia’s wireless operator Harold Cottam in handling traffic from the survivors, and they both sold stories to the Times.
John George (Jack) Phillips stayed at his key until Smith released him with “…That’s the way of it at this kind of a time. Every man for himself.†Still he kept talking to Carpathia and trying to find a closer ship for another fifteen minutes before running aft.
In his home town of Godalming, he is memorialized by a copper plaque in the Post Office where he once worked as a telegrapher. Other memorials include the Jack Phillips Memorial Cloister in Godalming, shown in this photo by Stephanie Barczewski.
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I really think Ship Sim is going to need a bit more tidying up of lose bug ends before totally realistic conditions such as genuine sinking emergencies are viable. There seems to be enough problems at the moment trying to remaining afloat long enough to look credible, assuming the server doesn't go pear shaped in the meantime. And anyway, i've seen enough of Davey Jones locker on 'Silent Hunter' *smile*. I came here to escape all those destroyers giving me grief. Imagine what the 'bad guys are going to do to Red Jet if warships are included on multiplayer. A nice graceful 'unsinkable' tall ship will do me fine thanks!. Regards Brian.
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And can you go down and ask her "can I make a tribute video about you?" No. You dont. otherwise, Ship Simulator 2008/2006 have to even do that its self. Dive down to the Titanic and say "Hello. Can we include you in a game please?" No. I dont think so. Nor can youn go to a grave and say "Hello. Can I make a tribute video about the event that killed you..." You dont expect a ghostly answer from the Heavens to say "Yeeeeeees!" or "nooooooooo" do you? People cant just go around asking every single relatives from people who died on that ship PLUS the few people who survived about if you could make a tribute and put it on youtube! Its stupid. You could have to travel to Africa, America, Austraila. And maybe you take a ship from Austrailia to London to ask the last relative that you havent asked... and your liner sinks. You die. And who knows were you go. You cant answer some guy who is at your grave... asking if he can make a tribute can you?
Plank
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Mad_Fred you are REALLY getting on my nerves. First you post some random comments saying "so Titanic didnt really sink..." and now you post this silly question. If watertight compartments existed in Ship Sim and you could explore them in walkthrough mode, there would bound to have swithes to close them. Maybe not now. Or in a later patch.
Oh how I wish I was here for this.
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Yes, Stu,
You missed the whole “Three Faces of Eve†episode, didn’t you?
Marty
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Three faces of eve??? ???
I don't know but I think if I'd have been here I could have just tipped these 2 into nuclear war ;D