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Poll

Do you like to have ships that sink when damage is caused to them?

YES
NO

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Author Topic: Why do people like to have ships that sink?  (Read 8193 times)

dharl

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Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« on: December 20, 2007, 10:47:45 »

I think it is important that consequences of your actions are shown in computer games as this shows that if you do something wrong then something bad can happen!

But i am not keen on sinking the Titanic, as nearlly 1500 people died in this incident, but it is a nice challenge using this fine vessel in SS. 

The main reason i brought this up is because last night a tug capsized in a accident berthing a ship on the Clyde and of a crew of 4 only 1 man survived.   

HAve a look at the link below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7152965.stm

Please answear the question Yes or no and please leave a comment!

Thank you very much and Happy, Safe Sailing!  ;D
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Stuart2007

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 11:00:03 »

I think there is a danger of mixing objective and subjective opinions together here...

For the moral outrage part- you could say the same about any simulator- flightsim, railsim, etc- or even a young child playing with matchbox cars and who smashes them together in a mock crash.

Are you asking whether vstep should have included the sinking function or whether people should be responsible with sinking when it comes to making youtube videos?

It is always a tricky point- especially after reading of a vessel sinking like that. Basically, it comes down to whether 'deliberate intent to cause offence', imho.

Stu
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DerBandit

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 11:57:46 »

I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.
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saltydog

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 12:01:37 »

I have heard of a car game in which it is possible to crash your own car..
This is very disturbing...A man in Hamburg had a car accident
The link is here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHampf1bbmE
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 12:17:15 by saltydog »
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carl

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 12:13:09 »

I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.

I think you are right, i think the simulator should be the same as the real world. that's why it's called a simulator. :)
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dharl

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 12:51:55 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHampf1bbmE


Thank you all for your comments so far!    That coach/car crash was frightning...especially as the car driver didnt stop either!!  :o
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saltydog

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 15:24:20 »

Yes, that was a naughty car driver..
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mvsmith

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 18:08:22 »

Dharl,
There were a lot of posts in the past asking for more realistic sinking, or bemoaning the fact that they couldn’t sink ships.
My view on sinking can be summarized by—tried it once…didn’t like it.
I suppose sinking simulated ships does provide a more desirable outlet for kids than spraying their classmates with automatic weapon fire.
Marty
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 18:36:29 »

I voted a Yes. It is a simulation and if you do something really wrong with the ship, it should sink, just like it would in reality. Would it make sense to have a damaged ship and a simple Message "Game over" ? I don't think so. this does not mean, you don't show respect to victims in real accidents. It's with all simulations, may it be ship, plane or car. Accident is accident and the result should be a more or less damage vessel.

Agreed and voted YES too, it's a sim, and a sim needs realism. But I do hate how some kids are only playing this sim (so it seems)  to sink ships and make screenshots or videos of these events.

For all I care the message "game over" could be given even sooner. As you can't stop sinking anyway, once it occurs. It's a bit of an issue. Compare it to FS. (Well I havent played FSX, but FS9 and all lower I have)  FS has crashes, but they are not modelled/animated much. No huge explosions or detailed wreckage. And if you overstress your plane then it just says "Game over" too. No wings falling off, no tumbling burning wreck going into the ground like a dart...  Why should it, you have failed the objective  allready anyway. 0% succes, no need to go on.

The object of the sim is to survive, not to die. So please kids (talking to the sinking nutts), Think about what you are simulating if it was real life. I grew up without a computer, till I was like 14 or so. But if I see the young kids in my family nowadays, that grow up with them.. I just worry..   Every free hour is spent at te computer, killing/blowing up/beating/running over/some other lethal thing, each other on the internet. And the language that flies across the screen... I Blame the parents first, don't get me wrong.. but still... The future is gonna be interesting, to say the least.

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Captain Titanic

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2007, 19:01:13 »

Hi

No offence or anything, but I think its very interesting to watch a liner sink. It is basically amazeing how they sink. I am not saying its cool though, I know its not a good thing,
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Captain Titanic

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2007, 19:15:31 »

Plus I think mad fred is right. Small kids are allways spoilt by playing these gun games online. I think it should be illieagel, I mean, games like Abuse, Caos Faction. Even Runescape.... They are just training kids to kill people when they are older, which is not a very good thing. And what is worse, is that some of these games have memberships were you pay and get more facilities. The thing I hate, is seeing people waste like £15 just to upgrade a killing game for 1 month.

As for Ship Simulator, ships are easy. If you dont want the sinking facility, dont download the patch, or simply dont ram your ship anywahere. Its quite easy really, but all the same, Same thing I said. If people sink sink sink and sink, they are gonna become wreckers or something and watch ships go down and watch their crew die.

Something good about the sinking facility however, is that people who are training for real life sailing can try not to bump into things and avoide sinking. If they did not have the sinking faciliy however, and the bumped into things, they would just say "oh well who the cares nothing is gonna happen", and then comes the time when they are captaining the biggest ship in the world and the hit rocks. They go "Oh well who cares" like they did in the game. And a few hours later they would find themselvs dead among another few thousand people, or if they are lucky, they would sit shocked in the lifeboat saying "Wow! I never knew that ships could dive! How did it do that?" And why do they say that? well, because Ship Simulator never did it, so why should the real thing? Simulations are for realism and prepareing for real life. So people, you need the sinking facility.

I can explain this with the Titanic. They thought the ship was unsinkable. (not the sensible people anyway) so when she hit the Iceberg, No-one cared exept the crew. It has also been proved by some survivors that some steerage (Third class) started playing football with the ice that had broken of the iceberg and landed on the deck! Then in the next 10 minuits they find themselvs rushing about the boat deck in search for safety, but they go down with the ship. And as they do so, they hear people from the lifeboats saying: "Wow! I never new the Titanic could do that! That ship was supposed to be unsinkable!"

After the Titanic's tragedy, the Britannic was thought to be even more unsinkable because she had two coats of steel. And what happend? Halfway through the voyage they hear a large explosion and apparently, the unsinkable ship sinks in just 55 minuits! and people go: "Wow! I never knew the Britannic could do that!" While some people get ripped up by the rotateing propellers.

So you can see why we need the Sinking feature. It helps us master our captaining. Your question however, was why do people want to sink ships. Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms. Some people sink ships because they want to make a story. But why would people sink ships for entertainment? Wel, it just means they are gonna becaome wreckers in later life and simply wreck some ships.

Some think its onteresting. I do, I think that its amazeing how a big liner sinks. Im not saying its fun to watch, Im not saying its cool, but Its just My opinion. However, this does not mean I do it on the sim. What our ships for? Sinking? no. They are not. They are to carry people from one place to the other, or carry cargo from one place to the other. And thats what Sip simulator is for as well. Sinking ships are dangorus and bad things. I mean even a small tugbot capsized the other day, and only 1 out of four people survived A little tugboat!

Haveing the V1.1 patch, you can try to avoide crashing into obstacles and complete a great voyage. As a matter of fact, I have two sinking videos on Youtube. One is acctually a part 1 of a story. The other is when I accidently hit an iceberg with the Latitude, So I though I should film it. But the bad thing was, I had to start the mission all over again.

I hope I answerd your question

Captain T.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 19:48:11 by Captain Titanic »
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JHB

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2007, 19:42:07 »

Sinking ships may feel like the effect of drunks/alcohol or mountain hiking or extreme sport. It's adrenaline! And it may just get peoples around you to thing that you are totally insane or mad. :P

I'm also fascinated by huge stuff, like big bulldozers, big ships, styled trucks with huge engines, and all that is gigantic, fascinating and breathtaking.

I also get fascinated when I watch the madness from Mother Earth where weather goes crazy and you just stand there and watch it with big eyes and open mouth. I guess it's all human. But for some it may get them to break this "hidden" invisible or visible edge where you get a "kick" of doing something illegally, like killing each dog in your neighborhood because you find this so exited and "kicking".
That's when you adrenaline is starting to go far out of control.

So sinking ships in a game is probably just adrenaline, it's interesting for someone and totally unaccepted for others. I think you have to understand the difference between reality and non-reality. This is a computer game that is made up with computer code. If you sink a ship in Ship Simulator well.. then you just kill some computer code. But if you do it in the real world... well... then it's in another dimension and you may just kill people by doing that (included yourself).

In other words: Ship Simulator = computer game (bytes of code). Real word & real life is something else (more serious stuff). ;)       

Humanity breaks new edges when it comes to technology. Maybe someday we melt together with the virtual world we find in computer games and simulators. Maybe some day you may end up in jail for killing a virtual person. I hope that this will never happen... because... I've just killed a couple of virtual soldiers in Crysis :P :P
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 19:49:23 by JHB »
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Nathanael

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2007, 22:16:44 »

I voted yes cause it is just a game to have fun on and it's not like we want any ships in real life to sink! It was mentioned already but I would like to give my opinion, thankyou.

Happy Christmas and a happy new year!
Nathanael
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dharl

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2007, 11:02:03 »

Thanks all for your opionions!  :)

As a profesional seafarer it was the loss of the tug in Scotland which prompted me to start this thread.   I have actually used that tug in the past to help me dock on the Clyde a few years ago and so the loss of the 3 men, including her Captain, a week before Christmas hit home!

Happy Christmas to all and a happy and safe sailing to all in 2008!
 :D

brgds

David

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Mad_Fred

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2007, 02:17:28 »

Your question however, was why do people want to sink ships. Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms.

If I post a video of an airliner crashing into the twin towers in FSX and call it a tribute on youtube, would you think I'd get many negavite comments from Americans?? Or if I 'd make a trainsim mod and explode a train in Madrid, ripping up a load of virtual travellers, would the Spanish be delighted with this?? I think calling such things a tribute is a bit disturbing. But maybe that's just me.

Recreating a terrible disaster is never a tribute, as far as I am concerned. I know this is just a game, I know it's not real. I know there aren't actually people dying or real ships sinking, but it's what's in the minds of some people, that makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not just here, but in many many games and sims. I read stuff on forums written by young people and just can't belief some of it. Some people just have sick thoughts. And as far as I see around me, the age of computers and internet has fueled these immensly.

So yeah, even though there is no real harm done, it's the thought that counts, in my book.

On the lighter side of things, Merry Christmas, safe sailing and lots of happiness and good health for 2008!!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2007, 02:19:16 by Mad_Fred »
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Traddles

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2007, 12:34:27 »

Fred,
There are many of us who will agree with you totally. I think it is a sad world we live in nowadays, perhaps if some of our younger members really knew what war and disasters are really like they would think differently. however it takes all sorts to make the world, I just say:- "Thank goodness I'm not that way inclined" ::) ;)
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[RWP]DJM

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2007, 12:57:05 »

I've always been of the opinion "with age comes experience, with experience comes the ability to decide what is truly acceptable, and what's not" ;)

I guess we all learn that eventually eh :)

Despite how bad things get, there are always people that shine above it I believe :)

Well, that's my philosophical outlook for the day ;)

Best regards to all, and seasons greetings ;D

DJM/Carl.
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saltydog

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2007, 14:34:29 »

A long time ago a monkey discovered he could kill another monkey with a stick..
Mankind hasn't evolved so much since then.. :)
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RJK

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2007, 16:16:43 »

Mankind hasn't. The sticks sure have.
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Traddles

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2007, 16:38:50 »

Nice one RJK, how very true :( :'(
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[RWP]DJM

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2007, 21:40:20 »

A long time ago a monkey discovered he could kill another monkey with a stick..
Mankind hasn't evolved so much since then.. :)

2001: A Space Odyssey ;)

Great movie ;D
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saltydog

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 05:44:20 »

absolutely right.. :D   only then it was a bone.. ;)
I agree, great movie..
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Captain Titanic

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 15:35:52 »

If I post a video of an airliner crashing into the twin towers in FSX and call it a tribute on youtube, would you think I'd get many negavite comments from Americans?? Or if I 'd make a trainsim mod and explode a train in Madrid, ripping up a load of virtual travellers, would the Spanish be delighted with this?? I think calling such things a tribute is a bit disturbing. But maybe that's just me.

Recreating a terrible disaster is never a tribute, as far as I am concerned. I know this is just a game, I know it's not real. I know there aren't actually people dying or real ships sinking, but it's what's in the minds of some people, that makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not just here, but in many many games and sims. I read stuff on forums written by young people and just can't belief some of it. Some people just have sick thoughts. And as far as I see around me, the age of computers and internet has fueled these immensly.

So yeah, even though there is no real harm done, it's the thought that counts, in my book.

On the lighter side of things, Merry Christmas, safe sailing and lots of happiness and good health for 2008!!

If you are immitateing a real event (If an airliner DID crash) then yes I certainly would Mad_fred
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2007, 16:38:25 »

Quote from: Captain Titanic
Well, half the time, its for a tribute. I have seen lots of titanic sinking videos on Youtube. And most of them are a tribute to the liner and its vicitms.

Quote from: Captain Titanic
If you are immitateing a real event (If an airliner DID crash) then yes I certainly would Mad_fred


So you are saying, the Titanic never sunk?  :P
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 16:42:10 by Mad_Fred »
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Captain Titanic

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Re: Why do people like to have ships that sink?
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2007, 11:39:40 »


So you are saying, the Titanic never sunk?  :P

What ARE you on about? Of course Titanic sank! Sad event, I know, but i Am afraid we can't change the past.

Once again. I say:

If you are immitateing something that really did happen, something that killed millions of people, makeing a video of it and putting it on youtube then it is a tribute. Unless you call it something like: "Titanic sinking haha to the drowned people!" Tributes are made to remember what happened, to show that the event should never be forgotten. To show respect to people who were killed. The collapsing of the World Tradeing Center, The sinkinfg of the Lusistania, The Titanic, The Britannic, World war 2, world war 1, The derailing of a train... All events that should never be forgotten...

It is a sad world.
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