Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: The Ferry Man on January 15, 2010, 11:21:59
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I have just heard that P&O are not going to continue their Portsmouth-Bilbao route at the end of September once the charter of the Bilbao runs out this year.
It is a sad day... :'(
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Brittany Ferries run to Santander anyway.
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Notice on Website:
http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/_footer_About_about_P&O_Ferries_press_releases_PR_-_P&O_Ferries_to_withdraw_from_Bilbao_service_in_September.htm
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Without criticising PO too much, perhaps one could look at Viking Mariella- a year older, operating on just as punishing routes, but doesn't appear to be suffering the same problems as PO describe.
PO has been going to the dogs ever since Lord Sterling retired; A check on various web forums will describe the same old problems- poor onboard services that do not entice people to part with money... There was once a time when the likes of BF would never dare challenge the mighty PO- they lost the Western Channel through poor management, just as I believe they will ultimately lose the Eastern Channel.
This is a widespread problem in so many industries- why is it the likes of BF, SL etc are growing whilst other industry giants are scaling back?
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Perhaps they dont want their profits to decrease.I feel sorry for the workforce who will lose their jobs.I hope they will find employment elsewhere.
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Perhaps they dont want their profits to decrease.I feel sorry for the workforce who will lose their jobs.I hope they will find employment elsewhere.
Isn;t there a crew member on here somewhere...?
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Jim
The point being that one has to look at WHY they are losing money. Some here might say P&O should keep it on for XYZ reason. No they shouldn't. I've had to drop work in the past because it is not profitable, but that's always after I've explored every possible option to make it profitable.
P&O do not and never- at least not since 2002 ish. The onboard services are as stale as the restaurants. The food choice is normally very limited indeed. The cinema is barely out of the black and white era, the beer is prohibitively expensive and the onboard shop is laughable... It really has gone so badly down hill these past few years. I know I go one about Capt Ross, but as soon as he left, standards plummeted (about the same time as it stopped making profit- how odd).
All big companies now are incapable of analysing their own errors- just numbercrunching.... Look at the likes of Virgin, or Easy group.... "OK we're making losses... How do we make it profitable"... bold, creative decision making. P&O are stale and have been for the best part of a decade.
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I agree with you Stuart,when I was on the ferries it was Townsend Thorosen,the food was good and we were busy.I know I was a chef,also Norewegan flag.
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But it isn't just ferries... every big company is just as bad.
It is all 'we're doomed Capt Mainwairing'
I am up against a big company at the moment and they don't give a hoot about customers, staff, law etc... But they don't want to do the work properly either.
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Ashame for P&O, pulling out of Portsmouth completely :thumbdown:
It was upsetting when the France services went but now P&O Portsmouth will be Extinct.
Jake
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P&O are like the dinosaurs of prehistory. P&O have failed to evolve- to seize each and every option that has come its way... Just like Cunard did from 1945 onwards.
It is symptematic of the lazy, inept and most importantly-weak- management of British companies that have driven them onto the (metaphorical) rocks.
Why does BF seem to think it can make money on that route? Simply because it is running its company more professionally and efficiently.
The same thing has happened in the airline industry... Go back 20 years and who'd have thought that a Greek bloke with a couple of 737s painted orange (or an Irish bloke with some blue/white 737s) would bring the mighty British Airways to its knees?
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http://www.businessandleadership.com/news/article/19114/leadership/icg-considering-best-options-for-pride-of-bilbao
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10343117
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I have just heard that P&O are not going to continue their Portsmouth-Bilbao route at the end of September once the charter of the Bilbao runs out this year.
It is a sad day... :'(
who will take over :-\
i now think it will be stena
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There may not be a take over
you have Brittany Ferries to Santander with the Pont-Aven and new Cap Finistere (though it looks doubtful that the CF will do minicruises) as stated earlier by Jim.Smith
I doubt another company will take over the Bilbao run...
Though I could be (and hopefully will be) wrong...
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Yes both her and the sister are great ships perfect for crusing ther may be ferrys betther adapted for mini cruises with the abilety to take one way passengers and cars like Silja Serenade that is specialy build for minucruises and also take cars/passengesr one way. :2thumbs:
But when tallink took over Silja line they destroyed the silja consern so the didn't get Finnjet back Silja Opera did need to leave the fleet to and next ferrys to leave will be Silja Serenade and Symphony (This is just plans but they may hapen) :(
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The POB is not in good health (and I say that as a passenger and NOT a marine engineer)... Just looking at the smoke from the exhaust says that the engines are badly in need of overhaul... I haven't been onboard for a while, but I was in Portsmouth early December and waited to watch it come past and the state of the exhausts was quite frankly appaling.
P&O admit that the ship is nearing the end of its commercial life... oblivious to the fact that Mariella is older, has a pretty hard life, but is looked after properly by a successful ferry company.
As I've said already, P&O has been going down hill for ages. The board need to go out and ask why LD and BF are making money from Portsmouth where as P&O aren't.
I for one have not used P&O for ages- (nothing to do with the POB announcement) and I used to be fiercely loyal to them. But when I go to Europe now, I go with SeaChance... Cheaper, better service, nicer ships... P&O might say that SeaChance is running at a loss, but I question whether SeaChance is heading towards profit and P&Os expense... I wouldn't like to place bets on P&O.
P&O is just eeking out its existence on commercial inertia- just like British Airways, Marks & Spencer etc... If it wasn't for brand loyalty- then- 'game over'.
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So Irish Ferries now have the Bilbao in September...What will they do with her I wonder, seems a good ship to do a minicruise from Ireland to say, France ???
She would have been good for the Rosslare - Cherbourg run, but surely Irish Ferries would only be shooting themselves in the foot, seeing they bought the Oscar Wilde a few years back for that run.
I agree with Stuart. P&O have been on the downhill now since i think 2004, when Stena Line bought a good wack of their Irish Sea services namely Larne - Fleetwood and its 3 vessels and the European Ambassitor (now Stena Nordica). There seems to be little interest in maintaining its 'empire'.
Wonder how long before they sell the Port of Larne? Or set about ruining the POR/H? Seems they are only vaguely interested in Dover - Calais, and even that doesn't appear to be going well.
Again, agreeing with Stuart - who would have thought that BF would have such a monopoly now on the Western Channel. I remember hunting for ferry prices out of Portsmouth to France...BF in comparison was rather more expensive than P&O, one such quote was heading on £100 cheaper on P&O, but didn't they ruin that too? Hats off to BF, as they do provide superior service.
As for P&O at Dover...as soon as LD get to grips with things - I say that they stand a pretty good chance of doing some damage to P&O. They seem to be doing alright for themselves at P&O's expense...as too are Celtic Link (not at P&O's expense though).
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The first time I was on POB, I managed to get myself a bridge visit and spoke at some length to the 1st officer; he was ex RN and I remember him saying that there wasn't much of a merchant navy left in Britain... You had the Royal Navy as smallest, then the British Merchant Navy and then the biggest was the P&O Navy... Perhaps that was true back in the 90s
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Nathan,
Personally I try to get my information first hand by practical experience and not by reading it of an enthusiasts forum.
I can only speak from personal experience and that is mainly from the Molly and the Rodin and also the shore staff at Dover.
SeaChance had always been a pretty shoddy affair, but drastically improved their image; po on the other hand were the British flag carrier and had the power and advantage over all others... Who would have thought that SeaChance would survive where Po has failed in its subsidiary markets, lost its cruise business, freight etc etc...
Your arguement really is a "they aren't the worst" rather than "they are the best". Is it not akin to asking which ocean, the Atlantic or Pacific, is the wettest?
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As for P&O at Dover...as soon as LD get to grips with things - I say that they stand a pretty good chance of doing some damage to P&O. They seem to be doing alright for themselves at P&O's expense...as too are Celtic Link (not at P&O's expense though).
LD are in utter disarray at the moment, they have a very expensive charter in Norman Voyager (presently subchartered to Celtic Link), a millstone around their necks in Norman Arrow, and the Norman Spirit which they are running on a route for which she is not suitable.
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Well, I'll be damned. The NS is still running to Boulogne! I just assumed that was a summer only route...
Why is this ship so unsuitable for the route though?
Boulogne used to have a very impressive service once and, whilst never as busy as Calais, was always a good port.
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Perhaps clanky means that it is a large vessel for a 'lesser' route, with lower trade than Calais....
However, passengers (especially freight) will go wherever is cheaper... A full ferry at 'slightly below peeandooh/seachance rates' is a much more attractive option than a 1/2 full ship at slightly higher rates.
That is the way they used to work it, and airlines do etc... capacity used is FAR more important than price per unit... So if LD lines are carrying on with their impressive pricing, I can imagine them really doing the traditional channel operators some real harm.
Oh, and LD lines is only a subsidiary of Louis Dreyfuss... a company that seems to be doing quite nicely...
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See BF have started a bit of an advertising campaign for their Santander run this year... Full page ads etc.
So will someone PLEASE tell me how it is that BF can make routes pay when PO can not... Even putting a new(ish) ship like the Pont Aven on the route, when PO can't even afford to maintain POBI properly...
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See BF have started a bit of an advertising campaign for their Santander run this year... Full page ads etc.
So will someone PLEASE tell me how it is that BF can make routes pay when PO can not... Even putting a new(ish) ship like the Pont Aven on the route, when PO can't even afford to maintain POBI properly...
And buying a second ship, which won;t even take mini cruises (for now at least)
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Yes, that other ship looks a bit... like it belongs on the channel, it just doesn't 'feel' like a replacement for my next holiday... The Pont Aven DOES look good, I admit (and I might try it sometime AFTER 28th Sept 2010)...
I have managed to book my place on POBs last return journey... Methinks that this is going to be a very busy trip... I hope Pee and ooh do the decent thing and have a proper send off... I expect water cannons and a lot of horn blasting from ships...
And can we re-word Rod Stewarts 'we are sailing' to rhyme with "Po are going. po are going, slowly bank-rupt... Slowly broke. PO are losing on stormy waters, to BF, Stena and LD. PO are doing- very bad-ly. Making no mo-ney for DP. PO are losing their fle-et. To be re-place by pontaven."
FOr anyone who doesn't know the Rod Stewart song, please don't try to make sense of the above...
DISCLAIMER: This is a urine extraction and neither the author or forum host is making a statement that PO is going broke. I don't think anyone needs to state this.
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Yes, that other ship looks a bit... like it belongs on the channel, it just doesn't 'feel' like a replacement for my next holiday... The Pont Aven DOES look good, I admit (and I might try it sometime AFTER 28th Sept 2010)...
I have managed to book my place on POBs last return journey... Methinks that this is going to be a very busy trip... I hope Pee and ooh do the decent thing and have a proper send off... I expect water cannons and a lot of horn blasting from ships...
And can we re-word Rod Stewarts 'we are sailing' to rhyme with "Po are going. po are going, slowly bank-rupt... Slowly broke. PO are losing on stormy waters, to BF, Stena and LD. PO are doing- very bad-ly. Making no mo-ney for DP. PO are losing their fle-et. To be re-place by pontaven."
FOr anyone who doesn't know the Rod Stewart song, please don't try to make sense of the above...
DISCLAIMER: This is a urine extraction and neither the author or forum host is making a statement that PO is going broke. I don't think anyone needs to state this.
I would love to be on the last cruise.
You should have to try and get some pics
The new ship is a near-sister to the Molly, so will be interesting to see a similar ship on two different types of routes...
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I would love to be on the last cruise.
You should have to try and get some pics
The new ship is a near-sister to the Molly, so will be interesting to see a similar ship on two different types of routes...
You are having a laugh?! :o Molly is a nice ship- for a quick paddle across the channel, but not across the bay of biscay. Im sure its technically 'up to it' but you were not exaggerating when you said the new ship isn't a cruise-ferry... :doh:
That sounds like a plan bad enough for PO to take on.
BTW I can't remember the deck layout of Aquitaine, but I seem to recall it was built with 2 decks that either were or could be configured as cabins... as there is a lot of 'open' deckspace on it... THAT ship is certainly up to the challenges of the Bay...
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The New Ship (Cap Finistere): http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/superfast_V_2000.htm
With the Aquitaine the way LD are moving around she could well end up on the Biscay route...
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The New Ship (Cap Finistere): http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/superfast_V_2000.htm
With the Aquitaine the way LD are moving around she could well end up on the Biscay route...
Funny, I have had an email from a bloke in wales who works in marine insurance and he says that LD lines did 'indicate an interest' in POBI back last time the lease was coming up... Whether that would be repeated
Hmmm.... It's an interesting point. LD seem to have the habbit of taking over loss making routes and making them work...
EDIT: To be accurate, the email referred to Louis Dreyfuss, not LD which is a subsidiary
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Especially as the actual nature of the 'loss' seems to be not quite known - it seems to vary from complete loss to making money but not enough to invest in a newbuild...
Apparently Bilbao are claiming other companies are interested in Bilbao though...
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Especially as the actual nature of the 'loss' seems to be not quite known - it seems to vary from complete loss to making money but not enough to invest in a newbuild...
TFM, I could bore the elbows off of you with a list of onboard revenue opportunities that they are missing. I had a meeting with the purser last time as my comments form was so 'intense' and he asked me to explain... He seemed really enthusiastic, but the expected letter came back "Dear Mr Marmite, the company doesn't think it will make diddly difference." or words to that effect. From my understanding, it isn't the TICKETS that are the tipping point, it is the onboard sales... They were SO CLOSE... Loadings WERE going up, according to that pursor...
I think what they really meant is they were worried about a fight against BF...
Apparently Bilbao are claiming other companies are interested in Bilbao though...
Explain? Is this something other than my comment earlier about these POBI enquiries? Are you referring to the ship or the route or both?
EDIT: Further checking. If LD were enquiring about the ship, it wasn't for Biscay. It is so stated by their MD... Shame LD is a good operator.
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Sorry I meant Bilbao the port itself...
I have to say I am intrigued by what revenues opportunities are missing.
LD are good company the fact that they change the boats is because they are making sure the route works at its best...
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That could well just be bravado on their part...(port bilbao)...
Perhaps AT might be back? Who knows... I think personally, that it is a dead duck now with what I've just been reading...
Shame- as methinks PO could have outlasted BF... The PA must be damned expensive...
As for missed revenue opportunities, in a nutshell the onboard services were really not good... TBH I can't be bothered to write this now, but maybe later. All they needed to do was LOOK at their services and what they could provide... ONE BASIC EXAMPLE- why no McDonalds franchise? Families with young kids... The cinema- 10 year old films (empty) internet cafe, mobile phones (at premium inmersat prices)- why don't they fit them? The fares were TOO cheap. The shore excursions weren't very good to say the least...
The shop- just don't even ask about it...
Even the pursor agreed that my suggestion that one of the cafes were open 24 hours was good... Me being me, quite often I wouldn't eat dinner, but at 3AM after the Galax closed (no beer!) I'd fancy a burger... but tough- it was a duty free toblerone! So did I part with money that night? No!
The entertainment is EXACTLY the same as when I started going on in '96 "hooray for hollywood", zzz zzz That disco version of star wars theme tune zzz.zzz.zzz
When I started going onboard, the Galax bar was packed- queues for the bar... lately, the Galax bar (Silverstones (I mean, what the hell has a racing circuit got to do with ships)) ::) is quiet- people drinking canned stuff in their cabins...
So much lost opportunity...
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I am surprised that there isn't a facility somewhere open 24hrs
Well thanks for the write up about the missed opportunities
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I am surprised that there isn't a facility somewhere open 24hrs
Well thanks for the write up about the missed opportunities
Oh, that was just a brief summary... But I think the point is made sufficiently well for me to be able to stick to my comments about the competence of PO management.
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Very Sad that P&O is losing a route. :'(
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Very Sad that P&O is losing a route. :'(
I know- no matter how often PO loses a route, it still hits you as a shock
BTW: Anyone know the cost per hour of a ship at sea? Someone suggested the POBI Averages about £3500 per hour at sea. But I wouldn't have a clue.
I know the cost per hour is a lot less than a short sea crossing.
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Why is the Norman Spirit unsuitable for Dover to Bolougne? She worked for P&O on Dover-Calais succesfully for a long time and has double deck loading with the appropriate loading ramps on the bow and stern. It's much better than the Norman Arrow which doesn't have as much capacity and cannot sail in bad weather.
This is an extact from the Dover Express posted by DoverT on the Dover Ferry Forum:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7363/doverexpress14012010.jpg) (http://img259.imageshack.us/i/doverexpress14012010.jpg/)
Nathan, apologies for not replying to this earlier, what I meant was that the Spirit was wasted on the Dover / Boulogne service, she was not running to capacity and she could have been better utilised elsewhere. LD's new charter vessel is much more suitable for the run, but the decision to bareboat the Spirit to someone else seems a little strange I would have thought that they would have tried to squeeze her in somewhere on an LD run.
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Nathan, apologies for not replying to this earlier, what I meant was that the Spirit was wasted on the Dover / Boulogne service, she was not running to capacity and she could have been better utilised elsewhere. LD's new charter vessel is much more suitable for the run, but the decision to bareboat the Spirit to someone else seems a little strange I would have thought that they would have tried to squeeze her in somewhere on an LD run.
yes but it will take a lot of work to get her suited for the run...
For a company that most people have not heard of (TEF) it does seem odd to give them the biggest vessel in the LD Fleet
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Yes, TFM... But TEF seem to be doing something right... And if LD Lines is going to get guaranteed money...
Remember that prestige isn't having the biggest ship, it is having the biggest (nett) profit... If LD could make more money by employing canal barges instead do you think they'd employ massive great ships???
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yes but it will take a lot of work to get her suited for the run...
How? she has already been on the Dover / Dunkerque run, she has been sailing successfully between Travemunde and Liepaja until recently and she is in generally good condition where will they have to spend any big money. Add into that the fact that she will be a charter vessel and it's only the hotel side which will need any money spending by LD lines.
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TFM has a point. Even to repaint a LSF into new fleet colours will take several tonnes of paint. Even down to the logo on the mirror in the toilets- all will be replaced.
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In the grand scheme of things an on hire dry-docking is pennies.
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How? she has already been on the Dover / Dunkerque run, she has been sailing successfully between Travemunde and Liepaja until recently and she is in generally good condition where will they have to spend any big money. Add into that the fact that she will be a charter vessel and it's only the hotel side which will need any money spending by LD lines.
Yes, she did for one week - she was never a Norfolk Line vessel, other then as a replacement for the Dawn Merchant once.
She is single deck loading, and is completely incompatible with the new berths at Boulogne - she would require conversion to double deck loading - this would include:
* Removing the Stern Ramp
* Adding new doors to stern
* Fitting the right design rear Cow Catcher
Then, if they want relatively quick Turnaround times in Boulogne, they need to convert her to double deck drive through:
* Fitting a Bow Cow Catcher
* Cutting a trench through the bow to allow access to the upper car deck
*Adding a Upper Bow Door (She does have a lower bow door)#
And the cow catcher has to be a perfect fit - the Provence had a cow catcher that didn;t fit, and had to go back for it to be modified...
So yes, she does need a bit of a dry dock...
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Double deck loading ain't gonna happen.
I had forgotten that she wasn't in Dover for so long (part of the reason why she is in better nick than her sisters) She was a Norfolkline ship, but running in the Irish sea.
There is a possibility that she will be stern loading only (the bow doors on these ships are a drama)
Even if they decide to go for bow in fitting a cowcatcher when the ship is in dock won't be too much drama or expense.
As this is a charter ship I am not sure what standard LD will want it to operate to, as I said the hotel is OK, but if they decide to do a complete refurb then it will cost them, present facilities are fairly limited, but certainly adequate for a 90' crossing.
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In the grand scheme of things an on hire dry-docking is pennies.
In this day and age, an annual docking of between 1 and 3 million quid (average based on reports from Fal docks) is hardly pennies.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things it is not a major expense, but if you think that the smaller sized expenses do not add up on the annual P&L report, then you clearly haven't run a businesss!!!
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I agree that it is probably unlikely to be used for Double Deck loading, at least not though the bow, stern loading is a maybe,
But it still we be not the shorted refit, and they can't use a ship mounted loading ramp in Boulogne
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Norman Bridge (that still makes me chuckle) will be on charter to LD, so they will not be paying for the annual docking. OK so they will be indirectly through the charter fee, but you know what I mean.
The on hire dry docking is a different matter, the charterer will pay for the docking, the paint job and any modifications which are required to alter the ship to make her suitable for the new service. Any other costs will be met by the owners / technical managers.
If the ship is due a docking anyway the owners may even meet all or part of the docking fees (each charter party will be negotiated separately and I have no idea what has been agreed on this one), but the Liepaja was last docked around a year ago so the owners may pay some of this.
It is possible that all LD will pay for is the paint job.
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The facts are that LD lines will have worked out to £/$/Eu what ship is the best for them per passenger/mile.
If that has come back as un-economic, then they won't use it. Remember a big ship needs a hell of a lot of passengers just to break even. In a downturn, smaller ships will be more viable as they need a lower load to reach BE.
Which is why I predict the cruise market bubble will burst in 2017, although starting in 2014.
(7 years may sound a long time, but not when bank loans on a ship can take 15-20 years to pay off!)
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The other advantage of a charter vessel is that you can budget far more easily.
If you know that a ship is going to cost €22,000 per day then you can set your rates accordingly and the only variable is how much trade you get.
If you are operating your own ship and it breaks then you have to pay to fix it and that is hard to budget for, it looks like LD are going more and more along those lines with more charter vessels coming in and the Spirit being bare boated out.
I have heard 50% full quoted as a break even figure for the racehorse class ships when they were on the Dover / Dunkerque run, but I am not too sure of the accuracy or of how it would apply to Dover / Boulogne on an LD service.
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If you know that a ship is going to cost €22,000 per day then you can set your rates accordingly and the only variable is how much trade you get.
The ONLY variable??? Are you sure about that?
If you are operating your own ship and it breaks then you have to pay to fix it and that is hard to budget for, it looks like LD are going more and more along those lines with more charter vessels coming in and the Spirit being bare boated out.
On a dry lease you are responsible for EVERYTHING!!! Light bulbs in the cabin through to main engine failure... Everything means everything (unless specified otherwise). Perhaps you are thinking of wet lease Or even the apt named damp lease.
I have heard 50% full quoted as a break even figure for the racehorse class ships when they were on the Dover / Dunkerque run, but I am not too sure of the accuracy or of how it would apply to Dover / Boulogne on an LD service.
The figures vary massively, depending on who you speak to.
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The Norman Bridge will be time chartered, which means that the owners will operate and mange the vessel at a fixed price (don't know the actual figure, but it is likely to be somewhere between €15k and €20k per day), which means that LD will pay the charter rate, plus hotel expenses such as food etc. they will also have their own hotel staff onboard, but the deck and engine crew will be provided by and paid by the owners.
I haven't heard the terms dry lease and wet lease used before, but I think what you were talking about as a dry lease is a bare boat charter where you pay for the ship and then operate it yourself.
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So who pays for a stern modification to fit Dover/Boulogne then?
I cannot see the owners paying for that
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No, if that was required then it would be down to the charterer, but the ship will not be modified for double deck loading, she has 2 internal ramps and can easily load / discharge 2 decks at once over the stern ramp. The bow ramp is a bit more difficult as it is so narrow (if the bloody thing opens in the first place!)
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Yes but as I said, the stern ramp can't be used at the new Boulogne Terminal - that is the reason the Cote d'Albatre went... (ok one reason)
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The Norman Bridge will be time chartered, which means that the owners will operate and mange the vessel at a fixed price (don't know the actual figure, but it is likely to be somewhere between €15k and €20k per day), which means that LD will pay the charter rate, plus hotel expenses such as food etc. they will also have their own hotel staff onboard, but the deck and engine crew will be provided by and paid by the owners.
I haven't heard the terms dry lease and wet lease used before, but I think what you were talking about as a dry lease is a bare boat charter where you pay for the ship and then operate it yourself.
A wet lease is when the owner operates it on your behalf, with your logos and tickets etc. And yes, bareboat is equivelant to dry lease... Dry/wet is more a aircraft term.
If LD are operating the onboard services and the owners are doing the operational side, then it is a damp or moist lease (a mix of the two).
So who pays for a stern modification to fit Dover/Boulogne then?
I cannot see the owners paying for that
The owners may officially pay it, but that will be reflected in the charter price. Otherwise it is the charterer... If it is a wet lease (sounds it) then it will probably be the owner, who will recoup the money from the leasee
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Yes but as I said, the stern ramp can't be used at the new Boulogne Terminal - that is the reason the Cote d'Albatre went... (ok one reason)
Eeek! I don't know, I can't see how they would get around that one.
I can't see an easy way to modify the stern ramp, it is also the stern door and forms part of the ship's watertight integrity, I think it would be cheaper to modify the linkspan.
Why can the stern ramp not be used? I have certainly not heard anything about any modifications to the stern ramp.
Maybe they are planning on using the bow ramp??? again Eeek!, but less so than modifying the stern ramp.
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The stern can be modified - the Midnight/Northern merchant both had the stern doors removedand new ones fitted with double deck access. The New terminal at Boulgone has the same style berth as the new ones in Dunkerque, twin deck with loading ramp. So unless they go back to the old Berth (and chances are the Brave is too long) and the old terminal isn't as well suited for freight something will probably have to be done, unles they do just use the single deck bow.
What is wrong with the bow door design on the Racehorses?
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In short it's over complicated.
There are too many bits that have to do their thing in the right sequence.
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In short it's over complicated.
There are too many bits that have to do their thing in the right sequence.
That clears it up nicely.
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That clears it up nicely.
TFM, I can't seem to find the PM I sent you, and I'm too lazy to type it again, could you possibly forward it to Stuart? Ta.
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Will do
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Thanks Clanky/TFM...
Err that DOES clear it up nicely (no sarcasm intended this time!)
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Just a quick update, I am reliably informed the the Endeavour did berthing trials in Boulogne complete with her old (now refitted) stern ramp and was OK.
We shall see.
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Okay, trhat is great news, though I am surprised :o
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Have never been to Boulogne so I am not sure what the issues are, only time will tell I guess.
Will be a few people with egg on their faces if she doesn't fit.
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Well the Norman Bridge is on the run now.
She is indeed using her bow ramp at Boulogne, and the stern ramp at Dover
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Norman Bridge? ???
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Norman Bridge? ???
http://www.ldlines.co.uk/bienvenue_Norman_Bridge.php
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Thanks ;) Couldn't find it on Google.
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OK on Sunday, the Cap Finistere made her first crossing to Bilbao, arriving there today (she had a brief stopover in Roscoff first on Monday)
Its good to see the route back, although the ship operating it is considerably different to what she replaces...
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You call the cap finestere a 'ship'?
It's a river barge with big ideas.
But on a happier note, Princess Anastasia is now sleeping in St Petersburg after a cold run up the Baltic escaping from the evil clutches of her previous 'owners'*, who after 17 years of running her down finally realised that they were becoming a laughing stock.
* Sue me for slander/libel if you wish pee and ohno! Not the forum management. But we all know you can't because A) I'm right. B) Even if you persuade a defamation Court you're right the proportionality rule will mean you won't win a thing.
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It's a river barge with big ideas.
Hah i like that :)
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Some specifications and a photo or two at:
http://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/fleet/cap-finistere
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Some specifications and a photo or two at:
http://www.stpeterline.com/en/OnBoard/News.aspx
A tough, well regarded cruise ferry that's as strong as a battlecruiser, as well known as Elvis, as big as a tower block, and will be my home for several trips this summer.
(note that unlike the un-finished cap finestere, it actually has a proper working stern- what happened? Did the workers knock off early the day they were building the back? I can't believe that they're sending out a big river barge into the Atlantic... Even the Pont Aven (a nice boat) doesn't like the Bay in winter, so what chance has a open river barge got?)
NB The above is my personal tongue in cheek appraisal of the cf. I haven't been on it and it's just an impression. I make no warrant for or against her sea keeping abilities nor her safety which, given BF's excellent record I'm sure is not really in doubt. But she's 'replaced' a much more popular ship and so I am in the anti-CF camp and will be staying there so nuts to anyone who doesn't like it and Marmite to anyone who does.
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NB The above is my personal tongue in cheek appraisal of the cf. I haven't been on it and it's just an impression. I make no warrant for or against her sea keeping abilities nor her safety which, given BF's excellent record I'm sure is not really in doubt. But she's 'replaced' a much more popular ship and so I am in the anti-CF camp and will be staying there so nuts to anyone who doesn't like it and Marmite to anyone who does.
Can I have some Marmite and a bag of nuts please?
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NB The above is my personal tongue in cheek appraisal of the cf. I haven't been on it and it's just an impression. I make no warrant for or against her sea keeping abilities nor her safety which, given BF's excellent record I'm sure is not really in doubt. But she's 'replaced' a much more popular ship and so I am in the anti-CF camp and will be staying there so nuts to anyone who doesn't like it and Marmite to anyone who does.
Being kicked in the Marmite is by far the better option.