POR ship dynamics

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[Dave M]

Congratulations groennegaard.
See this topic; http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,7778.0.html
I think that the Pride of Rotterdam has come of age. It doesn't feel like a speedboat any more!
The lag between applying wheel and the ship starting to turn, the continued turn after you take wheel off and the general feel is much more of a ship than it has ever been. Thanks very much for your hard work, the result is very good.
Regards, Dave

[groennegaard]

Thanks Dave, I'm glad that you like it - I really appreciate your feedback. 

The documentation I made for the model is waiting for approval. The documentation includes general data, turning tests, zig-zag tests and curves for acceleration, coasting and crash stop. I hope to see it out soon.

Kind regards
Jacob

[ACR]

also from me big congratulations. its now a real challenge to careully manouver in and out the berth in rotterdam, you have to think forward and calculate not immediate motions, like it should be!

the best dynamics of all ships, keep on pushing realizing it in other vessels!

good work!

[ferryenthusiast]

currently witholding judgement on the POR.

she feels very much like a lump of lead.

Admittedly the ship is just short of 60,000 brz/gt. (Design deadweight 8,800t, Scantling deadweight 10,350t), however the sim cannot be made accurate by setting the parameters for ships of a similar size etc. 

Both the Pride of Hull and Pride of Rotterdam are very overpowered so do react to commands quicker than the norm and also are very light on the rudder.  I have been experimenting on totally calm seas with no wind and the ship for me simply is not responding like the real ship does.

Have tried to turn the ship using the standard manuvering techniques of low speed, from stop. With one engine ahead and one astern with the rudder full over for tight turns and the movement is very slow.

With all that said, I am going to spend some more time evaluating the POR but will more than likely act on advice from VSTEP in the past and replace the dynamics file with the older one.

Am onboard the POR is September and be having a chat with the Captain, so will see if I can get him to have a "sim" experience. 

[groennegaard]

Hi ferryenthusiast

If P&O had supplied VSTEP or me with the original sea trial report, everything would have been much easier.

If you compare the model's behavior to similar vessels you will realize that it still reacts rather quickly. I have done some zig-zag tests with the model and when the documentation is released, you will see that the overshoot angles are quite low compare to similar vessels. However the effect of applying counter rudder may not be as significant as desired, but that is due to the design of the dynamics-engine (I think... I did what I could to make it more significant, but without the desired result). Hopefully that will be improved for the next SS.

The previous version of PoR is underpowered (couldn't reach 22 knots) and there has too much hull resistance, making the vessel stop moving in no time. By lowering the resistance, increasing power and ruddereffect, I actually increased the effect of applying counter rudder and got acceleration/coasting stop/crash stop curves which match real life patterns.

If you are going to chat with the captain, would you then do me a favour and ask him if he could supply us with the original sea trial report?

Regards
Jacob

EDIT: Spelling.

[ferryenthusiast]

Hi Jacob

If you let me have a list of questions you would like answering, I will certainly do what I can when onboard in September.

Cheers

Paul

[groennegaard]

Sounds great Paul 

A copy of the sea trials report would be on top of the list. It will answer most of my questions regarding
- Turning tests
- Acceleration
- Coasting stop
- Crash stop
- 10 degrees zig-zag
- 20 degrees zig-zag
- Max ROT when using thrusters only (zero speed)
- Max ROT using all means (zero speed)
- Rudder area
- Rudder movement speed
- Windeffects

...and finally you could ask him to supply us with pictures of the bridge interior and windows to help VSTEP modellers to improve the view from the bridge (it's horrible as it is now...  ).

Thanks 
Jacob

[ferryenthusiast]

No problems, I have some bridge pictures somewhere taken a couple of years ago. 

Will see if I am allowed to release these, I remember when I took them there was no mention of what I could and could not do with them apart from publishing them on the internet which was not allowed.  But best to check first.

[NathanC]

I asked to see the bridge when i went on it just yesterday, and they said it wasn't allowed due to security, but i think posting pictures is fine - there is a picture of the PoR bridge on the P&O website....

[groennegaard]

Yes, of course Paul. 

@ NathanC
The bridge is normally off limits to 'civilians' due to the International Ship and Port Facility Security Code (ISPS). Thanks to our friends in America who couldn't get these rules implemented fast enough.

There is really nothing secret on the bridge, so all this secretiveness is related to ISPS. Pictures won't reveal anything, so I can't really see why pictures aren't allowed to be published. As you said, you can find a 360 degree bridgeview on their website.

However, the ISPS code does let us work in peace on the bridge. No curious visitors asking stupid questions... 

Jacob

[pauljanaway1]

why dose the bridge on the game look so different to the real one

[groennegaard]

Hi pauljanaway1

Probably because it wasn't a goal to make it look like the real thing. A shame really, but yet again the ships have so many aspects that you can't get it all - especially not in the 2nd release.

Jacob

[pauljanaway1]

ok yes it is a shame ship simulator should be more relistic

[NathanC]

I understand why it isn't 100% accurate to the real ship, but it does look a little bare, maybe a few more panels would be nice, like with the Ocean Star.

The bridge isn't the only thing that isn't like the real thing though, there are lots of little unimportant details that i love picking out 

[TerryRussell]

Hi Nathan.

Careful you don't join the ranks of rivet counters. 

I think they have a large enough membership already. 

[ACR]

Sounds great Paul 

A copy of the sea trials report would be on top of the list. It will answer most of my questions regarding
- Turning tests
- Acceleration
- Coasting stop
- Crash stop
- 10 degrees zig-zag
- 20 degrees zig-zag
- Max ROT when using thrusters only (zero speed)
- Max ROT using all means (zero speed)
- Rudder area
- Rudder movement speed
- Windeffects

...and finally you could ask him to supply us with pictures of the bridge interior and windows to help VSTEP modellers to improve the view from the bridge (it's horrible as it is now...  ).

Thanks 
Jacob

i,m sure he will get all this information being a passenger ...

[Dave M]

I still stick by my original post.
Ok from a purists point of view maybe it is not 100% POR but it is very much more realistic to handle than any version of POR in SS08 from 'version 1.0' to 'version 1.4.1'.

Thanks again Jacob
Regards, Dave

[groennegaard]

i,m sure he will get all this information being a passenger ...

If you know the right people things may happen...  Then it doesn't matter if he is a passenger or not. I have retrieved such information on other vessels without even being a passenger, so I think it's worth a try. Don't you agree?

Jacob

[JHB]

Careful you don't join the ranks of rivet counters. 

I think they have a large enough membership already. 

Are I'm included?

[TerryRussell]

I'm probably the worst one. When it comes to trains, I will spot rivets that are the wrong shape! 

Sad isn't it? 

But I do make sure that I keep a sense of reality about it. I don't expect perfection from a computer syste, It just isn't possible on a cheap PC running cheap software. Even the likes of NASA with all their funding and technical ability accept that simuators are never anything but poor reflections of real life.

[pauljanaway1]

after now testing the turing i find that it is very poor i would even go to say worce than the titanic or latitude

[NathanC]

Here are some pics i took showing the real size and shapes of the bridge windows

(http://imageshack.us)

(http://imageshack.us)

[groennegaard]

after now testing the turing i find that it is very poor i would even go to say worce than the titanic or latitude

Hi pauljanaway1

I'm very sad to hear that. May I ask you what experence you have with vessel dynamics and behaviour? Are you a ship's officer/engineer/naval architect? I'm just curious to know what you think is wrong and why you compare the PoR to Titanic and Latitude.

Regards
Jacob

[groennegaard]

Here are some pics i took showing the real size and shapes of the bridge windows

Nice pictures Nathan.  They clearly show the missing windows. Would be great if they were added to the PoR model for the next SS so that the feeling of berthing the ship from the brigdewing would be better.

Jacob

[NathanC]

Thanks  As the PoR is my favourite ship in the game, i use it often when available and i can see a big improvement - and that faulty bow thruster has gone