Topic: Dissapointed at Ocean Star (Read 30950 times)

Subwolf · « **Reply #100 on:** May 27, 2008, 15:52:28 »

Yes the pod position indicator on the bridge is a vital part of this system, too bad it's missing on the SS azipod ships. They do have working rudder position indicators though, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for Vstep to include it for the pods, something they really should give a priority.

baldax · « **Reply #101 on:** May 30, 2008, 06:46:44 »

Quote from: Admiral-of-the-fleet on March 29, 2008, 00:52:21

Pods are the future in all commerical shipping!!!

maybe jst for cruise ships! unfortunetly...

Bottman · « **Reply #102 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:15:39 »

Quote from: Subwolf on May 27, 2008, 15:52:28

Yes the pod position indicator on the bridge is a vital part of this system, too bad it's missing on the SS azipod ships. They do have working rudder position indicators though, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for Vstep to include it for the pods, something they really should give a priority.

That's still at the wish list of VSTEP...

Bottman · « **Reply #103 on:** May 30, 2008, 08:18:14 »

Quote from: baldax on May 30, 2008, 06:46:44

maybe jst for cruise ships! unfortunetly...

Well, there are a few RoRo's and RoPax's with azimuth propulsion, lots of very special vessels fÃ¼r the offshore industry und some ice breaking tankers will have pods to allow them to navigate astern through the ice.

Subwolf · « **Reply #104 on:** May 30, 2008, 11:29:50 »

Well there is no reason to be disappointed anymore at the Ocean Star, the 1.4.2 patch definitely improved the controls. The pods react faster, and I haven't noticed any unexpected turns or movements. Well done, I'm pleased with the new patch

emanhu · « **Reply #105 on:** June 01, 2008, 20:30:26 »

Hi,

As 1st Officer on the Independence of the Seas, a pods ship. I'm a little bit concern about the reaction of the ship motion for the Ocean Star. Yes the new patche improve the ships movement but again a lot of work about the ship's dinamic need to be done. ( Bow truster have way to much effect, ) its not possible to turn the ship at 20 to 30deg/min rate of turn when doing 15kts....... Bow trusther are efficiant at a maximum speed of 6 to 8 kts.

Also the pod are rudder so when propeller are stop the ship should turn if I turn the pod. ( the option of a Miniwheel) (normal wheel to control both pod in same time so if you adjust 1 pod the other will follow.) the same with the RPM control, for manouvring its fine but when cruising we should have a combi RPM control so if you touch one pod the other adjust its rpm to be exaclty the same. I should be able to put a limit on the pod angle when cruising to not end up with 90deg if I push the arrow by mistake.

at a speed of 15kts if I turn the pod at 20deg I should get 30 to 50 deg/min rate of turn when on the game I just get 5 to 8deg....

the acceleration is too fast for the ship when underway. and for docking and undocking (ex putting 1 pod 90deg to undock) I should put maximum 50% load on the propeller and that will over take the power of the truster. All pods ship have maximum power available when the pod is between 35deg to port or STBD and lose 40% of the power when working on all other angle ( except when reach 35deg port and STBD and stern way.)

RPM indication should be changed. Pod ship have Diesel Electric and the RPM is the Propeller RPM and the Max RPM is about 145(like the POR also)..... and with about 90 RPM we should have about 15 Kts.

Hope thats gonna help for the new patche !!!

Bye

Emanuel

Bottman · « **Reply #106 on:** June 01, 2008, 21:51:04 »

Totally agree, Emanuel!

But keep in mind, that the "Ocean Star" was the very first azimuth driven vessel in the game. So there are a lot of improvements to be done. It's not so easy to create the whole ship dynamics from the office PC with very rare knowledge about those giant cruise liners at all. Therefor it isn't so bad, I think. But your comments should be helpful to improve the "OS".

Regards

baldax · « **Reply #107 on:** June 02, 2008, 11:23:28 »

Quote from: Bottman on May 30, 2008, 08:18:14

Well, there are a few RoRo's and RoPax's with azimuth propulsion, lots of very special vessels fÃ¼r the offshore industry und some ice breaking tankers will have pods to allow them to navigate astern through the ice.

yes bt not on a normal 250000 gt crude carrier.. or a container or a bulk...

LucAtC · « **Reply #108 on:** June 02, 2008, 12:49:17 »

Such data are indeed unvaluable, as some characteristics of such ships are largely unknown, like Bottman

said.
What would still be missing to simulate realistically the accelerations or the braking, is the block coefficient or the displacement of Independence of the Seas.
For instance, is it right that she is propelled by three 14MW pods, one being fixed, guessing a Cb 0.6 and/or a displacement of 65000 t maximum?
Her bowthrusters would have a total 13.6MW, and her maximum speed is 21.6kts at 85%MCR of the pods?

This last version of Ocean Star was designed, as guessed from the characteristics and some timings, at a displacement of 40000t and propelled by pods (total 65MW...), that could explain great accelerations and the too high maximum speed of the model?
Her coasting distance in the sim, from 22kts, is 12.6 lengths, but full astern 1.7, which is certainly too fast and means too much thrust in reverse. Also, stopping the thrust is (almost?) instantaneous, perhaps is it possible with such electrical systems to quickly derive the power to auxiliaries during transitions, or is there a distinct delay (30sec?) as with "pure" diesel engines?
Regards
Luc

Subwolf · « **Reply #109 on:** June 02, 2008, 18:02:07 »

Well, I look at SS08 as an entertainment game, not as a precision simulator, for that it lacks way too much. The Ocean Star behaves similar to a real cruise liner, I find her maximum speed at 24-25 knots in calm weather, that's not unrealistic. Her bowthrusters shouldn't be effective with speed over 8 knots, but I simply don't use them doing that speed or more. They are also very powerful at low speed or 0 knots, but that is not unrealistic either.

Emanuel I think you are going a little too much into details, when looking at the game as it is. And the Ocean Star is a virtual ship, not a simulated real one, Vstep can program any dynamics they want into it. But by all means, if they got time to make it 100% like real pod systems please do..

JHB · « **Reply #110 on:** June 02, 2008, 20:17:28 »

When we don't have any measuring units on board these vessels in SS how in Earth are you going to find out if the ship dynamics is realistic or non-realistic? Beside how much failure do you accept? 5%...10%....50%?
What data can you compare with and where in SS do you find such data?

I mean... sounds like you have to have magical skills to find it out...
We don't really have any instruments on board the vessels that can measure such stuff. And when dozens of other factors can affect the results of the tests...how big chance do you have to say that your results are the correct ones...?

I don't get it...

Bottman · « **Reply #111 on:** June 03, 2008, 06:16:11 »

Well, indeed we have some instruments, like those every seafarer could use: clock, ROT indicator, speed log, GPS...

vampire · « **Reply #112 on:** July 25, 2008, 23:25:24 »

Emanuel -

Your comments regarding Independence of the Seas would apply to the Fincantieri Vista Class ships (Zuiderdam + her HAL sisters, also Arcadia, Queen Victoria). Like Independence, these ships have ABB azipods, and have similar behavior/restrictions to Independence (35 degrees port/starboard in ship mode, similar turn rate, 145 rpm limit, etc).

The biggest disappointment in the simulation of the Ocean Star is the ineffectiveness of the azipods in providing a turning motion. I have a copy of the Wheelhouse Poster / Pilot's Card for the Vista class; I'd really like to see the Ocean Star behave in a similar manner! The Ocean Star is supposed to be a representation of the Carnival Spirit Class, which the Vista class is an Italian derivitive of....

LucAtc - the Vista class ships have three bow thrusters, 1.9MW each. Stopping distance from 22 knots is just under 2000m - however, to avoid an iceberg, it'd be better to put the pods 35 degrees to starboard, as the turning circle is about 540m with an entry speed of ~21 knots.

If VSTEP model this, then I think it'd be a very useful training aid to Deck Cadets and others moving to podded ships....

pauljanaway1 · « **Reply #113 on:** July 26, 2008, 12:41:52 »

i allways thought the turning was poor and at full speed did not turn with with force a ship of that size may

topguncap · « **Reply #114 on:** July 26, 2008, 12:59:46 »

in the add-on to 06 didnt the ocean star have bow and stern thrusters?

Denis · « **Reply #115 on:** July 26, 2008, 13:42:45 »

Quote from: topguncap on July 26, 2008, 12:59:46

in the add-on to 06 didnt the ocean star have bow and stern thrusters?

she had, but it's totally useless now, with azipod thrusters !

Capt. Le Velle · « **Reply #116 on:** July 26, 2008, 22:24:16 »

Quote from: Denis on July 26, 2008, 13:42:45

she had, but it's totally useless now, with azipod thrusters !

yes quite right if you have azipod thrusters you have 360 degree steering

John Carter · « **Reply #117 on:** July 26, 2008, 22:42:19 »

i don't like pods........ i turn my wheel one way ship goes the other way ....

rot poor as well

i'm probably getting too old for new tricks

i am 23 after all, give me a break

captain jack

pauljanaway1 · « **Reply #118 on:** July 27, 2008, 12:05:02 »

well pods are what this ship has so i dont think it will change

Gloat · « **Reply #119 on:** October 04, 2008, 15:55:48 »

I dont like the pods either

In fact i dont even know how to use them so I just press UP and DOWN keys all the time

King Regards
Microsoft

Ballast · « **Reply #120 on:** October 04, 2008, 16:16:31 »

Well, if you put the mouse cursor on it you see 3 rings. The the inner ring is for the direction of the pod, the 2nd is for the trottle and the 3rd is to operate the direction and trottle at the same time. Just try it, if you get the going of it, you can make some pretty awsome manoeuvres with it.

Gloat · « **Reply #121 on:** October 04, 2008, 17:19:11 »

I am very doubtful. Id rather do my existing techique of pressing UP when on cameras 1,2,4,5 which is much easier and is the same thing.

firestar12 · « **Reply #122 on:** October 04, 2008, 17:31:34 »

I love this setup. You can do everything you could've done with her in SS06 and more. @ microsoft: The little arrows on the pods are whatever way the propellors are "Blowing"

Agent|Austin · « **Reply #123 on:** October 04, 2008, 18:13:01 »

Quote from: Microsoft on October 04, 2008, 15:55:48

I dont like the pods either

In fact i dont even know how to use them so I just press UP and DOWN keys all the time

King Regards
Microsoft

You should not bring back a topic 3 months dead.

firestar12 · « **Reply #124 on:** October 04, 2008, 18:15:27 »

Quote from: Agent|Austin on October 04, 2008, 18:13:01

You should not bring back a topic 3 months dead.

Oh well. Whats done is done. We can not change that now. Well actually mods can but we wont get into that. lol.

Author Topic: Dissapointed at Ocean Star (Read 30950 times)

John Carter

firestar12

firestar12