VESSEL HANDLING GUIDE

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[AriesDW]

This thread is in regards to the assembling of the "Ship Simulator Vessel Handling Guide". I, Dave, am willing to design and assemble the piece, however, I would like to get assistance gathering info regarding:

COVERED TOPICS:
-Horn communication (featured in another section)
-Radio/Comm etiquette (for TS usage)
-Port handling rules/regs
--Including speed, passaging regulations, col regs, docking procedures, etc.
-Open see handling rules/regs
-Basic naval terminology
-Tug/pushboat operating tips/regs


Any other suggestions?

I can design, assemble the piece, but again, I need patience, information, and any professional assistance/advice I can get. From there I will try to work on getting this piece placed somewhere on the forums or the game site.

*** ONLY POST RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC OF THREAD - - - UNRELATED TOPICS WILL BE DELETED - - - SERIOUS POSTS ONLY ***

[SirXpression]

I'll give you all i know / understand as follows:


Ships must pass  Port / Port unless both masters/captains agree that it is safer to pass starboard / starboard.

Port is the Left hand side of the ship (red)
Starboars is the Right hand side of the ship (green)

When using horn signals the other ship has to reply with the same signal to verify that he/she has heard and understands the signal.

When a tug is towing it is adviseable to keep clear at the LEAST of 500m infront and 300m either side...or else the tug gets very annoyed..

full merchant shipping rules can be found here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19963243_en_1.htm


Its not much but i hope it helps

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

just adding to the above comment..... Will get together a list of links that will help you put together all the nessicary information.  Have quite a bit of maritime experience and love the idea of what your proposing.  Think you got the list spot on as well, would just add emergency procedures such as maday and pan-pan calls. 

Just a couple of the top of mi head though.....

Watch out with the buoy system... while you are correct in saying Port markers are to the left and starboard to the right this changes when in N. America and it may be on the continent i have no idea about that. Trust me an englishman in Canada i have many stories to tell about mix ups with the buoys.

Green: Starboard, pass to the right side on your way into port or away from open water (upstream)
Red: Port, pass to left side                        "       "     "    "   "     "       "       "        "             "

Note: This is the opposite in America and Canada e.g starboard to the right on your way inland or away from open water

The Horn signals: http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6174.25/topicseen.html are all correct and with a couple of good links in there.

Just another quick note with the tugs, practises vary from port to port, same with variations in radio communication in aircraft but there are commercial outlines and general procedures ones i think we should follow.  As i say i will get together some ifo for you and post it on here for ya!!

Rgds

[AriesDW]

Thank you for your encouragement, support, and information.

[LucAtC]

Hello Dave, 
A good site (http://www.stormy.ca/marine/colregs/) with the International regulations for preventing collisions at sea (COLREG). Whistle (or horn?) signals from Rule 32 on.
Also interesting is the International Code of Signals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Code_of_Signals) wiki, giving also interesting links.
Of course, there are other rules than maritime, inland shipping in Europe has its own rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEVNI), not quite the same as at sea. The wiki gives the link to  this code in the external links.
Also of interest are the VTS (http://www.worldvtsguide.org/MenuPages/GermanyMenu/Brunsbuttel.html) regulations, or this Finnish pdf (http://www.fma.fi/toiminnot/meriliikenteenohjaus/saadokset/VTS%20Manual%202002.PDF).
Welcome back, 
Regards,
Luc

[AriesDW]

LUc!!! Awesome to see ya! Thanks for the welcome! I am happy to be here again and thanks for posting. Furthermore, thanks for your post and I hope to work closely with you on this project in the future.

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

Just a quick question Dave.... Are we talkin about a print out guide with all the appropriate information or are we looking at an in-game information screen, like the info bar at the top of the screen??

[RMS Gigantic]

Just a quick question Dave.... Are we talkin about a print out guide with all the appropriate information or are we looking at an in-game information screen, like the info bar at the top of the screen??

putting it in game would be great!

[AriesDW]

Just a quick question Dave.... Are we talkin about a print out guide with all the appropriate information or are we looking at an in-game information screen, like the info bar at the top of the screen??

For now it would be print out. To add it to the game would require a lot of work the devs do not have time for at the moment.

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

For now it would be print out. To add it to the game would require a lot of work the devs do not have time for at the moment.

Yep fair shout, i was just wondering as  to the type of info needed, diagrams, lengthy explanations or just the short facts!!

Almost got all of the sites your ever goin to need  , i will post them in a couple of days!

Rgds

[tusler]

I'm sorry to disagree with the Admiral, but the normal convention is that buoys are passed to port or starboard if the vessel is proceeding with the main stream of flood.   In other words, pass red buoys to port when going up the river, and green buoys to port when going down stream.   In practice, in a river or confined space, the guideline is to keep to the starboard side of the channel.

Will the vessel handling guide include instructions on controls for wierd craft like the Isle of Wight ferries?

Robert
Extra Master (1965)

[AriesDW]

Will the vessel handling guide include instructions on controls for wierd craft like the Isle of Wight ferries?

Robert
Extra Master (1965)

I would like it too . . . In an early conception it might be limited, I do not want the document to get TOO big and lengthy, but yes, I am looking at explaining different propulsion systems. And for my portfolio, I am likely to draw diagrams explaining each, so as many reference photos or diagrams that I can get my hands on, the better.

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

I'm sorry to disagree with the Admiral, but the normal convention is that buoys are passed to port or starboard if the vessel is proceeding with the main stream of flood.   In other words, pass red buoys to port when going up the river, and green buoys to port when going down stream.   In practice, in a river or confined space, the guideline is to keep to the starboard side of the channel.

Just changed it..... unbeliveable!!!!

    Still can't quite belive i did that!!     just a tad embarrising!!!

Sorry

Rgds


Oh and thanks for the correction!!!

[AriesDW]

Miracles still do happen. 

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

Ha they do indeed!!!  just another question.... i was thinkin while gathering some info... different regulations an bouyage, tug regs etc apply to different tonnage of boat.  So will you require info for both small craft and the giants like Ocean star??? And will you be wanting exact regs or breif, bitsize easy to ingest  info.  If so do you want N.American exceptions to the UK regulations and guidelines???


Rgds

[AriesDW]

This brings up a good point. I would not want lengthy bits, and I wish there was a way to make "general rules of thumb" that applied globally, so we did not need to make all sorts of exceptions or alt versions, etc. I think I am going to have to law down the law on this one and say we need to go with standards that either seem the most global or we will need to pick one nation and go from there . . . Thoughts?

And re: the tug thing, maybe little bits applying to various tonnage levels? That way I can see how I can build around that . . . Perhaps I can make tug sections for different ship sizes . . . We will see.


I am open to your suggestions.

[BrianG]

This brings up a good point. I would not want lengthy bits, and I wish there was a way to make "general rules of thumb" that applied globally, so we did not need to make all sorts of exceptions or alt versions, etc. I think I am going to have to law down the law on this one and say we need to go with standards that either seem the most global or we will need to pick one nation and go from there . . . Thoughts?

And re: the tug thing, maybe little bits applying to various tonnage levels? That way I can see how I can build around that . . . Perhaps I can make tug sections for different ship sizes . . . We will see.


I am open to your suggestions.

The essence of the Ship Simulator program is that it aims to simulate real-life. No one man can master everything involved and keep it up to date. The answer might be for you to delegate individual tasks to the real-life authorities concerned or the nearest thing to that available. I  would expect some and hopefully many to be helpful in that the task would in their own interest in improving their work. You speak of 'a lengthy document'. Assuming you are putting it on a website you would provide a booklike contents page linking to subsection pages and so on. The ultimate links would be to external pages which are provided by authorities on the particular point.

For instance you might like to ask the designer of a tug to put up the 'Handling Guide' information in a format you provide. The you include a link to it under your list of tugs.  Now you don't have the impossible task of keeping all the info up to date.

You mention the difficulty of varying standards. This could be handled in the same way as different vessels. Your contents has an item for the regulation type with links to pages for each of the countries which have differrent regulations.

I see your work as being a valuable source to the Ship Sim developers.
I suggest you set up the site immediately with the information already available as shown on this forum. Ship Sim might provide the web space as it will be so useful to them. OK so it will not be perfect immediately but it will be 'the best there is'!

BrianG

[Admiral-of-the-fleet]

Definatly agree.  An easy to understand simple guide would be more effective than long winded explanations.

And also i think that a print out, "pocket size guide" would be the most effective soloution. Having it for download somewhere would be the best scenario.  Mabye use your influence, Dave to get the devs or whoever to get it on the shipsim site!  I think your on to a winner here though.  I know i'd love a little pocket guide with all this info in... mabye another cool one would be something they did for FS couple of  years back in having small charts of all the ports.  I know that there are low detail maps and charts available freely on the net....   

[AriesDW]

The essence of the Ship Simulator program is that it aims to simulate real-life. No one man can master everything involved and keep it up to date. The answer might be for you to delegate individual tasks to the real-life authorities concerned or the nearest thing to that available. I  would expect some and hopefully many to be helpful in that the task would in their own interest in improving their work. You speak of 'a lengthy document'. Assuming you are putting it on a website you would provide a booklike contents page linking to subsection pages and so on. The ultimate links would be to external pages which are provided by authorities on the particular point.

For instance you might like to ask the designer of a tug to put up the 'Handling Guide' information in a format you provide. The you include a link to it under your list of tugs.  Now you don't have the impossible task of keeping all the info up to date.

You mention the difficulty of varying standards. This could be handled in the same way as different vessels. Your contents has an item for the regulation type with links to pages for each of the countries which have differrent regulations.

I see your work as being a valuable source to the Ship Sim developers.
I suggest you set up the site immediately with the information already available as shown on this forum. Ship Sim might provide the web space as it will be so useful to them. OK so it will not be perfect immediately but it will be 'the best there is'!

BrianG

What I was intending was a product that you could print or view as a PDF. I do see value, however, in this web-based application you are speaking of.  As sad as it would seem, I would like the initial intended project, the PDF guide, to be as universal as possible = to be used as a reference to aid novice and intermediate pilots as well as provide references for the more advanced. However, I will be giving MUCH more thought in regards to this in the coming days after I have gathered more info and have some more flexibility in my schedule.

Thank you for your input  - I value it and will give it all a lot of thought.


For anyone wishing to work with me on this project may contact me via PM, through the forums, or through off forum forums means outlined in my profile.

[ibheba]

For specifications on bouys, lighthouses and other navigational aids check http://www.iala-aism.org/ (http://www.iala-aism.org/) under pulications.

I've attached an example wheelhouse poster from ICS, that shows the minimum manouvering information you need.

Rgds.

[AriesDW]

For specifications on bouys, lighthouses and other navigational aids check http://www.iala-aism.org/ (http://www.iala-aism.org/) under pulications.

I've attached an example wheelhouse poster from ICS, that shows the minimum manouvering information you need.

Rgds.

Thank you very much, ibheba, and welcome to the forums!

[Dustybin]

To the Admiral of the fleet.
The sides of a ship are determined as follows.

1. Always taken looking forward:-
    Port side is to the left and Starboard side is to the right.

There is a reason for this and that is no matter what way the ship is heading the sides remain the same.

Also I was aleays told that when overtaking another vessel it must be that the vessel which is doing the overtaking must do it on the starboard side of the slower vessel.

1. When in a channel:-
    Inbound the green bouys are kept to starboard and the red bouys to port
    Outbound is the opposite, red bouys to the starboard and green to the port.

I am glad you weren't the flag of FOCAS when I served.

[ibheba]

It seems that you can't download anything from IALA without a fee! So here are the basics on Lateral Marks from the IALA-system
There are two international Buoyage Regions - A and B - where lateral marks differ

• Region A
  
  • Port-hand Marks are red with cylindrical topmarks (if any). Lights are red and have any rythm exept Fl(2+1)R
  • Starboard-hand Marks are green with conical topmarks (if any). Lights are green and have any rythm exept Fl(2+1)G
• Region B
  
  • Port-hand Marks are green with cylindrical topmarks (if any). Lights are green and have any rythm exept Fl(2+1)G
  • Starboard-hand Marks are red with conical topmarks (if anny). Lights are red and have any rythm exept Fl(2+1)R

Direction of Buoyage
The direction of buoyage is that taken when approaching a harbour from seaward or, along coasts, the direction determined by buoyage authorties, normally clockwise around land masses.

Region B System is in force in North and South American waters and in the Southeast Asian waters. Region A is in force in the rest of the world.
This means that when you approach Rotterdam from the Northsea you will have green buoys on your starboard side. On the other hand when you approach New York from the Atlantic ocean you will have red buoys on your starboard side.

I hope this will clear things up.

Rgds.

[ibheba]

I was wrong from here http://www.iala-aism.org/web/pages/publications/cadrepubli.html (http://www.iala-aism.org/web/pages/publications/cadrepubli.html) you can obtain a copy of IALA Maritime Buoyage System.

Rgds

[LucAtC]

Hello,
At sea, overtaking means that the overtaking vessel comes from the "rear" of the overtaken, more than 22.5° from the beam of the overtaken, and there is no particular side imposed.
But in narrow channels, ships must follow Rule 9:

Rule 9
Narrow channels
(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

which means that an overtaking ship having the same draught will need to do it on the port side of the overtaken.
If the slower ship is more to the middle of the channel (for one or another reason), it is possible to overtake indeed on the starboard side, using the Rule 34 signals for overtaking (--. on your stbd side , and --.. on your port).

In the European inland waters, the rule is

Article 6.10 - Overtaking
1. As a general rule, the overtaking vessel shall pass to port of the vessel being overtaken.
Where the channel is unquestionably wide enough, the overtaking vessel may also overtake to
starboard of the vessel being overtaken

Regards,
Luc