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Author Topic: wake from ships coming from the bow  (Read 10333 times)

Third Mate

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wake from ships coming from the bow
« on: January 02, 2008, 07:03:00 »

I have noticed s something interesting at every ship in SS08. At the bow were all the water that is being pushed from the bow away it is looking fake well kinda.Here is what i mean.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 07:05:00 by Third Mate »
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groennegaard

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 11:12:19 »

Hi Third Mate :)

What are your graphics settings? I'm not sure but bow waves may not be shown if the graphics settings aren't set to 'high'.

Regards
groennegaard
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JHB

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 11:25:54 »

Do you have any idea how difficult it will be to implement this? ;)

Technically I think the sea in Ship Simulator is a flat planar object with a lot of tri polygons. The sea is using shaders and the waves is probably animated by the engine itself by moving the vertices up and down to simulate waves. The shaders are just used to simulate the look of the water.

But if the waves that you already have in the scene that actually goes trough the ship model is going to be pushed away from the hull when the ship is "cutting" the water at the bow (or less or more before the bow when the ship got a bulbous bow) then we can start talking about advanced dynamics here. The bow wave that SS is generating today is particle effects (very well know by me from 3D modeling and CG graphics) that is more a bow spray.

Well I will be very impressed if this gets into the next version of SS. I think SS2015 sounds more realistic. I feel sorry for the one that have to program this to get the bow waves similar to the last photo posted by the topic author. Anyway it will be very interesting. I have not yet seen a ship simulator game that simulate this. Even not Virtual Sailor got this. Because the bow wave itself is mesh containing tri polygons and the wave must respond to how fast the ship goes and the wave height used in the scene. Yeah... extremely interesting. It gives me brain storming just to think about it.

So my question is to the one that got more knowledge about this subject: Which factors have a influence on how the bow wakes will be generated?

If I'm not totally out of course here I guess this:

- the shape of the bow and the hull itself
- the depth of the ship
- the speed of the ship
- the wave height used in the environment
- the shape of the wave that hit's the bow
- the wave direction and from what angle the wave hits the ship
- the result of a bulbous bow and it's influence on waves that hits the ship (or waves that the ship hits)

And all this is going to be programmed into the sim to simulate realistic bow waves... yeah that would be really impressive. But I have my doubts. But keep on dreaming ;D

Groeenegaard, I think he is suggesting to make bow wakes like this not only the bow spray that the game already have. ;)


Source: http://www.hydrolance.net/common/BowWake-Wave.jpg

The results of a ship pushing a lot of water at the front. A lot of spray and many wakes in different sizes. :)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 11:33:41 by JHB »
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TerryRussell

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2008, 19:23:13 »

Given the predicted platforming out of computer processing speed within the next year or two, it may never be possible (unless and until a new processing method is devised - ten parallel 128 bit wide processers?).

To create all of the required polygons would be an immense amount of work for any computer. Even now, simply setting ships wakes to "all" in the game settings will cripple most PCs if there are more than a few ships in the area.

To do bow waves as well (and presumably the associated bow and stern waves, etc) is not going to happen by 2015, I suspect, if ever.
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Third Mate

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 02:49:49 »

Given the predicted platforming out of computer processing speed within the next year or two, it may never be possible (unless and until a new processing method is devised - ten parallel 128 bit wide processers?).

To create all of the required polygons would be an immense amount of work for any computer. Even now, simply setting ships wakes to "all" in the game settings will cripple most PCs if there are more than a few ships in the area.

To do bow waves as well (and presumably the associated bow and stern waves, etc) is not going to happen by 2015, I suspect, if ever.



Awww...now that's looks likes going to a be long way away.I did not think that it would be as complicated as  some computers getting cripple and even so having that many polygons wow.Still dough if you thing about it this would be the required detail level for the ships wakes foams etc.So my guess is will it ever be able to have such graphics and will it be ever possible to ever experience them in SS08 or maybe future version of the game itself? 
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Tavares Junior

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 11:22:25 »


So my question is to the one that got more knowledge about this subject: Which factors have a influence on how the bow wakes will be generated?
The results of a ship pushing a lot of water at the front. A lot of spray and many wakes in different sizes. :)

Hi JHB,
Your comments are right facing the SS today.

About your question I think this can help a little bit:

Bow waves
The waves are generated by the solid mass moving it’s own body into the water, this may have any different types / shape / direction, those factors can have many changes during the ship’s passage (Movement) mains forces which create the bow waves are ships design/draft/addition of bulbous bow or not/sea waves and ship’s speed.

Where its start
When the ship is moving forward and increasing the speed it gives an acceleration of the pushed mass at the forward part of the ships hull, this mass moved forward of the ship’s hull will come to the surface and becomes added to the virtual mass which follow the ship (Bernoullin), from the bow and or bulbous bow the presence or appearing of the waves are much smaller than what is formed abaft the ships fwd gape. 

Size and length
The length of the waves can be various due to the channel/sea current, others ships, wind, depth and distance from the ship (during passage) to the coast line and or sand bank near by.
The size will be various the most common factor forming the size of the waves are the ships speed plus to the size of its body. A width tanker or bulk carrier at 14kn will cause a bigger wave than a panamax container ship or smaller ship at 14kn too, comparing with the same environment and weathers conditions. (Its not the case between LATITUDE and VEERMAS as the ships body are quite similar in width and draft too). But the POR and OS will cause a smaller bow waves than or two big ladies.

Best regards,
Tavares
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Tavares Jr
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Third Mate

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 01:55:47 »

about your comment,

That is what i exactly mean, if you look closely on the foams that are coming from the ship they acualy carry on for about 10-20 sec and the ss 08 kind just make a splash and do not make a foamy watery bubbly kind of trail left behind.That is exacly what im talking about.The SS 08 foams are flat, anyway here is another picture.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 02:09:21 by Third Mate »
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Tavares Junior

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2008, 15:16:19 »

What I know is that the ss designers will have a big job to do.
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Tavares Jr
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Third Mate

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 07:40:38 »

What I know is that the ss designers will have a big job to do.

aye, she is not going to have a smooth journey.  :-X
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Third Mate

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 23:39:57 »

Well, bellow there's a picture of the Add-on.For SS06 dough.Now what do you notice:


Now if you look closely at the wakes foams there actually good.So what is strange is how come SS06 has better wake foams that SS08?
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TerryRussell

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008, 23:48:19 »

Or is that just an artist's impression?

Well, bellow there's a picture of the Add-on.For SS06 dough.Now what do you notice:

Now if you look closely at the wakes foams there actually good.So what is strange is how come SS06 has better wake foams that SS08?
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Third Mate

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Re: wake from ships coming from the bow
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2008, 03:04:18 »

Or is that just an artist's impression?


Hmm....maybe? Still i have found another video that involves this subject.Im sure of it, i mean when SS08 had not patches on the bow wake foams were good.But i think when VSTEP has updated the game they must of accidentally made the wake foams smaller.I ain't giving up on this matter because i know it can be done somehow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DErJ0tKUtMk
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