Language question for Dutch friends

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[Stuart2007]

I'm trying to learn a few words of Dutch, but getting stumped on a few basic bits.

1. Right translates as recht - Am I correct in saying that this is right as in not left?
2. Does right, as in correct translate to verbeter or is there a closer translation of right?

I am using an online translator and 'teach yourself' guide, but it isn't very good... Maybe I will have to go and spend some time there to learn 

Stu

[Mad_Fred]

Hi Stu,

1. No, "recht" is not right as opposed to left, that would be "rechts", with an additional s.
But if you would say "the right one" (the one on the right)  then the adjective would be spelled as "rechter"
"recht" would be translated as "straight", also recht can mean "right" as in, say;  "you have the right to vote". And there's a few more meanings and forms there might be, depending on the context.

2. "verbeteren" from which "verbeter" is the singular present tense (I think  ) means "to improve"
Correct could just be translated as "correct" as we use that word too. so that would be the closest one.  .
Although it could also be spelled as "correcte", when it is used as an adjective. For example;  "the correct approach to a problem" would be "de correcte aanpak van een probleem" (well not literally translated but it would be how we could say it)
there's a few more words but it all depends on the context. Dutch has a lot of difficult grammatical irregularities so it's easy to use the wrong form or word in a certain context.

Online translators aren't very good when it comes to this stuff, grammar, etc. I have used them before and found the outcome usually puzzling, rather than helpful.

Hope it's not too confusing    Good luck with it nonetheless!

Regards,

Fred

[Stuart2007]

Thanks Fred 

At first I thought it would be an easier language to learn, but it's proving much harder than I thought. One of the more complicated languages!

I'm not trying to become fluent, just learn 'enough' in Dutch, Spanish (already good enough at French) and a bit of German. If you can 'get by' in those languages there will be very few countries were you can't speak to people- either as their primary or official secondary language.

I think the only solution will be spending a few months in Europe learning. I don't think I'll ever do it by 'self teaching guides' or even night classes 

Thanks again.
Stu

[marcstrat]

Greetings Stu,
I love the idea of trying to learn Dutch(flemish)approx simular.
Well,i had a friend,who came from Cardiff,he worked about 5 years here in Belgium.He tryed that to,well he gave up afther a while.
I've seen this example above.
If you should look at the word "Meer",this can be a lake,or it means "more".It all depence in the context of the line,where it is written.
You're 100% right,about that translation-option on the computer,it's very basic.
There are more words,that can mean a different thing,in dutch.
If you had lived here in Belgium,you would doing great,because here in schools,we study(Dutch,Frence,optional German and English)It depence on the school,and at what time you follwed school,over the years it all started to change a bit.
Anyway,if you want to learn something,you can also contact me by PM,i'm happy to help you out.
I'm also sure more people will do that.
Regards
Marc

[Stuart2007]

Thank you Marc. I very much appreciate the offer.

Politics aside I very much like Europe and regret not spending more time there.

The thing is, I left school with only a D- in French, yet from my few visits (mostly day/weekend) I've learned quite a bit and can usually get myself understood- even if not perfect grammer. I used to work as a coach driver before I do my current job and I used to always give people a language guide, history and a map of where we were going. Those who took the info always said they enjoyed it more than those who didn't.

The Flemish langauge is strange though. In many respects it is easy for English speakers- much of the pronounciation is similar, but the writing is very difficult.

Thanks again for the offer of help. I WILL take you up on that!

Stu

[Hering]

 

Ick bünn een Holsteiner, ick will een plattdütsch Forum, oaber in holsteinsch Plat, nich in ostfreisch oar ollenbörger oar hambörger oar sleswiger Platt.

Thank You

One of the officaal Languages in Belgium is GERMAN.

[LucAtC]

Hello,
An interesting Wiki page about the difference between these  West-German dialects (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederdeutsche_Sprache) , or more precisely, spoken languages. It is of course written in one of these languages, so that anyone can check his own knowledge in Platt. 
Regards,
Luc

[marcstrat]

One of the officaal Languages in Belgium is GERMAN.

Greetings,
Yes,we are a small country,and have 3 official languages.
Thats why they give them in the schools now,i my time it was only dutch and frence(optional german and english)in the higher grades.
Regards
Marc

[De Koning]

One of the officaal Languages in Belgium is GERMAN.

Greetings,
Yes,we are a small country,and have 3 official languages.
Thats why they give them in the schools now,i my time it was only dutch and frence(optional german and english)in the higher grades.
Regards
Marc

Isn't that confusing and annoying? Such a small country and than 3 different languages?

[marcstrat]

Greetings,
No,you get used to this.1 of the advantages is(which has happen on holiday's)that i can sit around the table in a bar,with frence people,english and german.If someone asked me i could answer.The only problem is that i had to do some translations for the others to,when they wanted to say something to a other.
For me,i love this,it's very learnful.Your brain has to switch over very quickly.
I thing i'm not afraid off,is to say something not correct(or write)thats were the profit on the end,makes a benefit.
Even here on the forum,you can correct me to,just copy the line(or word)send it by PM to me,and than i can learn,to improve.
For me it's a attitude,some kind of a habit.You also get involved more in the customs of people.What i've learned also with this,Languages makes more people to understand,more understanding gets you ritcher.
Regards
Marc

[LucAtC]

Isn't that confusing and annoying? Such a small country and than 3 different languages?

One could add to Marc's comments that there is a population of 75000 German speaking, 6Mio Flemish and 4Mio french speaking Belgians.
6Mio is more than the population of 11 other European countries, 4Mio being rougly equivalent to the Irish population.
From a demographic point if view, Belgium is 11th of the 27 of the EC, although it is 23rd in total area.
The Netherlands also benefit from two official languages, and two other regional languages are also recognized, although with a lesser status, I think.
All these languages and dialects derive from ancient Germanic tribes, that is why people speaking a dialect from Limburg understood very well people living in Germany, like in Kölle for instance. It tends ( ) to disappear together with the tolerance.
Is the NL situation not to be compared with the Belgian one?
Regards,
Luc
Post scriptum: My point was to explain to Stu  that Flemish, Dutch or Niederdeutsch, it makes no difference,  if he learns Dutch, no need to learn Flemish, and going over to German will be easy. And what is appreciated is the effort done, not so much the "quality" or speed of speech. Well, you know that, don't you?

[Hering]

 

Not serious: I have no prejudices, but the few I have I will cultivate well

I think we live in a world,that needs understanding and tolerance.
I don´t understand why catholics and protestants, turkish und kurdish., basgue and spanish,
white and black, haussa and ibos (remember them?) jews and arabain,and so on and on and on and on, couldn´t live in harmonie and beat with clubs eachother for peanuts.

If it makes you happy invent an dutch-belgian forum but think of the minorities.

[Mad_Fred]

The Netherlands also benefit from two official languages, and two other regional languages are also recognized

We have?  Was I not informed of this?  AFAIK there is only one official language which is Dutch, then of course every region has their dialect. Which usually is quite easy to understand for every Dutchman (if they minimize "slang" and speak slowly heheh), except maybe for Fries, but - and I know they don't agree over in Friesland - that is still a dialect, not an official language. 

[LucAtC]

Hoho, you are surely right, but I met other people who didnt share this view?
For your information, this Wiki page  (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talen_in_Nederland) is the source I found about Frisian being official or not. Not that it would be such a big point?
My underlying proposition is that all these languages/dialects are at the very root of the cultural identity of their speakers, and that is why they are recognized at (some?) level through country and European programs.
They need to be supported, not lowered, but that is only my opinion.
That says it all:

Not serious: I have no prejudices, but the few I have I will cultivate well

I think we live in a world,that needs understanding and tolerance....

Regards,
Luc

[Mad_Fred]

Yeah I see what you mean.

I didnt mean anything by it. I myself speak one of those dialects too (though not as "hardcore" as my ancestors hehe), I just had a different (and basically incorrect) defenition on what to call a real langauge or a dialect.

Basically all our true dialects have so many "own words", or slang, if you will that they can be considered a language on their own. "Official" meant to me, something like, the ones you are taught in school. I know Fries is an official one in Friesland itself, but we don't all learn it in school ,if you know what I mean.

I speak a few languages and I totally agree with how important it is to have knowledge about other people's culture, history and langauge. It is indeed a way to tolerance. No worries, I was just teasing our Frisian friends with that "it's just a dialect" bit..  all in good fun, hence the smiley face.

[marcstrat]

Greetings,
Also look to england,what i know is that(since some years now) they teach welsh again.So it's again an official language.Which in mine opinion is realy good.
My son and daughter live overthere,and they had to learn this language to,next to the english language.
Every language has a value,even dialect.That's part of your identity.
Regards
Marc

[Stuart2007]

Yes, but they only teach welsh just for reasons of pride. it isn't a 'live' language like the french/flemish/german combination of Belgium.

In historical terms, Belgium is quite a young country having been part of german/french/dutch empires for countless years (I used to know the history quite well, but the grey cells are going...)

I think this is a really useful discussion. I do think that if everyone on the planet made a bit more effort with each other then there would be less wars and if you don't understand language, you can't understand other peoples culture/history.

Stu

[LucAtC]

Hello Stu, 
This Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language) says 

Welsh is a living language, used in conversation by thousands and seen throughout Wales. The Welsh Language Act 1993 and the Government of Wales Act 1998 provide that the Welsh and English languages should be treated equally. Public bodies are required to prepare and implement a Welsh Language Scheme. Local councils and the Welsh Assembly use Welsh as an official language, issuing official literature and publicity in Welsh versions

One could conclude that this question of lost languages has a moving answer... in fact, there is a definite revival, I wonder how authentic some of them are? 
Regards, 
Luc
Edit: Belgium was part of the German empire very briefly (14-18 and 40-45).

[Stuart2007]

Hi Luc

The problem with wikipedia is that (as we all know) many of the articles are biased in favour of the writer. Although many people DO write impartially.

The welsh language is being taught in schools to increase welsh pride- and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I am all in favour of wales being given its full independence, scotland too.

At what point DO we call a language 'dead' when it isn't spoken AT ALL? Well, latin is 'dead' yet there are 10,000s that speak it (mainly for religious reasons)- but we don't consider it 'live'.

[LucAtC]

Hello Stu,
After having read Marc's story about Welsh language, I was surprised it was still a living one. So that I not only read the Wiki article, but also (of course) the discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Welsh_language) that gave some light about the question, and particularly that this revival was argumented.
(In French, "argument" is neutral, no underlying notion of bullying as it seems to exist in English ...).
I think a language is considered "dead" when it does no longer change, it is then derelict  . In fact a language is not subject to entropy, although its (ab)use can deliver much warmth. 
But for foreigners to learn Flemish or Dutch, there will be no difference at all. No one would teach you any dialect, or it would be clearly explained. Commonly (as seen from far away...), Dutchmen are positive, on the good side of the Force  , and so are the Flemish ones too.
Regards,
Luc