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Author Topic: Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?  (Read 354 times)

CapnCrane

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Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?
« on: November 22, 2024, 17:28:50 »

SSE was released like 14 years ago & the community on here started to disappear since 2015 (looking at forum stats), but there's VSTEP's Nautis Home, playable via monthly subscription. As I understand, people from here who can afford to pay it & whose pc can afford to run it - playing it right now.
But that's not a next game after SS06, SS08, SSE - more like still the professional training software, suited for single-person home use.  Could it be possible that some people from here moved on to Nautis Home?
Another thing is that in the last 14 years there were several other games - European Ship Simulator, World Ship Simulator, Virtual Sailor NG, Ships 2017 etc - but I heard they all are arcade-like than serious simulators.
So what's clear is that VSTEP not going to release another game-like simulator after SSE: "Want serious simulator from us - Nautis Home".  Another clear thing is that any civil ship simulator games done not by VSTEP would be still more or less rubbish arcades. Because realistic simulator is boring & won't be successful among general audience, so the only way to have it buy-able is for it being an arcade or strategy.  So I guess there won't be any more games like SS06, SS08, SSE.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 21:13:08 by CapnCrane »
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LucAtC

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Re: Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2024, 16:51:15 »

Hi CapnCrane,

You are mostly correct, but your conclusion — "Because a realistic simulator is boring and won't be successful among the general audience, the only way to make it marketable is by turning it into an arcade or strategy game" — is somewhat mistaken.

Going back to the origins of SSE and Nautis, SS2008 had a strong foundation in 2006 with QuestViewer and Newton Game Dynamics, but it was not at all suited to addressing hydrodynamic challenges due to limitations in the Newton Game engine. When the time came to develop a successor to SS2008, the idea of producing an SS2008 Pro version was considered. It became apparent that, despite the weaknesses of NGD, it would be relatively easy for the physics programmer to adapt it for a Pro version, somewhat following the trajectory of SS2006.

The simulation itself was certainly good enough to be upgraded into a true professional simulator, provided it incorporated features like wind, currents, shallow water effects, and possibly added mass considerations. Over time, it became clear that VStep could transform SS2008 Pro into a genuinely professional simulator, albeit with certain shortcuts in ship engineering areas (such as engines, rudder systems, and communications). These aspects could be added later, alongside improved attention to ship parameters, which were missing from SS2008 due to NGD's limitations.

SS2008 Pro was ultimately upgraded, reworked, and renamed Nautis after significant effort from the VStep team.

In essence, this first version of Nautis was SS2008 with realistic hydrodynamic parameterization.

There was still a challenge when creating a successor to SS2008: Ship Simulator Extremes (SSE). This was intended as a new game, still based on QuestViewer as the graphics and development environment but rebranded. The concept was to provide a successor to SS2008 without competing directly with Nautis. As a result, features such as wind, streams, and currents were excluded, and the on-screen bridge equipment was designed to be more game-like.

Additionally, a new sea model (PhysX) and RakNet were introduced, while QuestViewer and Newton Game Dynamics were retained. The user interface was modernized, and the hydrodynamic system was completely rewritten in C++ by the science programmer, addressing most of the significant ship maneuvering flaws present in SS2008. However, the game was developed concurrently with the highly professional Nautis, placing a significant workload on the VStep design and programming teams.

What I want to emphasize is that SSE is not "arcadish." Its ship maneuvering characteristics are much closer to the actual specifications of comparable vessels than many other simulators. Furthermore, these characteristics can be easily adjusted thanks to an excellent editor. Its limitations, however, are entirely my fault. I often lack accurate data about real-world maneuvering characteristics, and many so-called experts fail to identify major flaws. My own limited knowledge and occasional impatience also contribute to these shortcomings.

In conclusion, I believe realistic simulation games still have an audience, but no noteworthy example of such a game has been released since then. I think the primary obstacle is commercial viability, as seen with projects like Nautis Home.
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CapnCrane

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Re: Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2024, 19:18:23 »

Hi Luc, thanks for that very interesting insight about the how it all was!

SS2008 Pro was ultimately upgraded, reworked, and renamed Nautis after significant effort from the VStep team.

The concept was to provide a successor to SS2008 without competing directly with Nautis.

I'm little confused here. I thought SS08 Pro was between SS08 & SSE, while the Nautis is what was announced in 2019. So SSE could be only as a slightly downgraded SS08 Pro regarding features.

Another odd thing is why it's still quiet regarding Nautis - I don't see too much of reviews or screenshots or videos of people playing it or even talking about their experience.  Or those have their own forum elsewhere?
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MokMok

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Re: Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2024, 19:27:38 »

Another thing is that in the last 14 years there were several other games - European Ship Simulator, World Ship Simulator, Virtual Sailor NG, Ships 2017 etc - but I heard they all are arcade-like than serious simulators.

I can't say that Virtual Sailor NG/Vehicle Simulator are more arcade-like than serious ship simulators such as SS08 and SSE2010. Typical arcade-like ship simulators are in my opinion naval war games like World of Warships and War Thunder in which ship handling and manoeuvring are not very realistic.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 19:59:05 by MokMok »
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LucAtC

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Re: Moved on to Nautis Home? Other games after SSE?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2024, 15:21:11 »

Hello Mokmok,
You make an interesting point. I agree with your perspective, although I still consider SS2008 somewhat arcadish due to its simplified handling and maneuvering characteristics. Virtual Sailor, even in its earlier versions, stood out for its more detailed hydrodynamics and realistic ship behavior. However, I admit that my experience with Virtual Sailor is limited to its 2006 iteration, and it has likely evolved significantly since then.

CapnCrane, regarding Nautis Home and Nautis:
If I recall correctly, Nautis (as it was renamed) was first released in April 2009. This was a decade before Nautis Home, announced in 2019, following years of substantial development. The differences between the two are significant: Nautis was built for professional training environments, whereas Nautis Home targets a broader audience, offering a more accessible experience while still retaining a serious simulation approach.

As for SSE (Ship Simulator Extremes), it was developed concurrently with SS2008Pro but with a new foundation. While there are ties between the two simulators—such as shared resources, teams, and environments—SSE introduced a new level of hydrodynamic modeling and object behavior that bridged the gap between entertainment and professional applications.

Lastly, regarding your question—Or do they have their own forum elsewhere?—yes, Nautis Home has a dedicated community forum, which you can find here: Nautis Home Community.
https://community.nautishome.com/

Signed: Luc and ChatGPT
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