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Author Topic: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life  (Read 5312 times)

BelgianEvo

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Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« on: January 07, 2016, 10:29:32 »

Hey guys,

I think some people on this forum will like this video :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1gk1SibMT4

It's a dual camera video with 1 of the camera's pointed at the Voith Schneider controls, and 1 camera is viewing the outside.

There are several of these videos on my youTube channel.

Tell me what you think about it !

I was planning on playing SS again, but it would be with the Voith patch then.
But it's been so long now since i played the game that i don't know which version is the last one.

And are the voith controls a bit real-life, or not?

Greetings
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 10:34:57 by BelgianEvo »
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Tugmaster in Port of Antwerp on a Voith Water Tractor 50Ton BP

saltydog

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 14:21:58 »

Very nice video's  :)    I find the Bugsier VSP+st a very nice tug.
 Although I have no experience with 'the real thing', it is described as being fairly realistic.
  Added are some pictures so you can get an idea..
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 02:37:31 by saltydog »
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BelgianEvo

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 15:16:56 »

I just saw a video that someone has made for me, and the rudder response is quite realistic, but the pitch/lever controls are far from realistic from what i've seen in the video.

What about 'sidestepping' in ShipSim? Is that possible in the game?

The picture you show however is a different type of Voith Tug i'm use to.

Our tugs only have 2 VSP units in the front of the tug, and a 'skeg' at the stern without any other propulsion in the stern.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 15:18:36 by BelgianEvo »
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Tugmaster in Port of Antwerp on a Voith Water Tractor 50Ton BP

saltydog

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 16:05:01 »

Hi Evo; to answer your first question: sidestepping is possible in the game, and is actually easier than with the original Bugsier due to the added stern thruster. Unfortunately it is not possible to control the VSP's seperate from each other.
I imagine seperate controls is what you're used to..
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 20:41:23 by saltydog »
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LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 02:08:04 »

Hello Salty, Belgianevo,
It is some time ago that I made these changes, but I think that I designed separate driving pitch controls, one for each VSP, and a common rudder pitch, both together.
The limitation is that the simulation doesn't allow separate control of pitch and RPM, only a combination of both, where pitch and RPM are linked by a law, well to be defined freely, anyway not controllable in the game.
Practically, it means that there is no RPM setting, full power is permanently available, thrust is set by pitch only, driving or rudder pitch.
Transforming the VSP rotor tug into a VSP tractor tug can be done, although the size and reaction of the skeg can be difficult to simulate realistically from scratch, its stall characteristic is indeed difficult to foresee. I can simply mix the VSP rotor tug with the skeg of the Bugsier2 , and of course after having suppressed the stern rudder propeller. After that, some hint about improving the simulation would be be highly appreciated: I never handled such a monster by myself, the design is the result exclusively of computations until I receive an expert advice for ships I don't know.
But it can take some time, as I would need to dive again into the editor.

Regards,
Luc
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LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 01:50:17 »

Attached a draft of the VSP tractor tug, stern skeg restored to the original dimensions of Bugsier 2, the stern thruster and its control are suppressed. The hull dynamics are close to those of the SRP BS2 tractor tug, of course not those of the propellers.
The folder of the zip attachment should be placed in the CP1.2 folder (zipped or not), and can be used  to switch between tug versions like described in the CP1.2.

Moving the driving or rudder pitch controls to the left or right hand could easily be done, and the RPM indications should be disregarded as such, the values are linked to internal and inaccessible computations, so I have not been able to change their display into pitch percentages: I'll look for a solution.

Regards,
Luc
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hiran

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 01:11:04 »

Hey guys,

I think some people on this forum will like this video :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1gk1SibMT4

It's a dual camera video with 1 of the camera's pointed at the Voith Schneider controls, and 1 camera is viewing the outside.

There are several of these videos on my youTube channel.

Tell me what you think about it !

I was planning on playing SS again, but it would be with the Voith patch then.
But it's been so long now since i played the game that i don't know which version is the last one.

And are the voith controls a bit real-life, or not?

Greetings
Looking at the video you pointed out and this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fGFxCL-yI
I believe the controls in SSE are more like Z drive controls than the VSP.
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saltydog

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 03:02:07 »

Attached a draft of the VSP tractor tug, stern skeg restored to the original dimensions of Bugsier 2, the stern thruster and its control are suppressed. The hull dynamics are close to those of the SRP BS2 tractor tug, of course not those of the propellers.
The folder of the zip attachment should be placed in the CP1.2 folder (zipped or not), and can be used  to switch between tug versions like described in the CP1.2.

Moving the driving or rudder pitch controls to the left or right hand could easily be done, and the RPM indications should be disregarded as such, the values are linked to internal and inaccessible computations, so I have not been able to change their display into pitch percentages: I'll look for a solution.

Regards,
Luc

Very nice Luc, a great addition to the game.  I'm sure it will appeal to many players.. ;)
 Could it be you have not yet added it to Ship preview?

greetings, Salty
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 05:33:41 by saltydog »
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BelgianEvo

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 10:31:08 »

Attached a draft of the VSP tractor tug, stern skeg restored to the original dimensions of Bugsier 2, the stern thruster and its control are suppressed. The hull dynamics are close to those of the SRP BS2 tractor tug, of course not those of the propellers.
The folder of the zip attachment should be placed in the CP1.2 folder (zipped or not), and can be used  to switch between tug versions like described in the CP1.2.

Moving the driving or rudder pitch controls to the left or right hand could easily be done, and the RPM indications should be disregarded as such, the values are linked to internal and inaccessible computations, so I have not been able to change their display into pitch percentages: I'll look for a solution.

Regards,
Luc

Hello Luc,

I actually don't own the game yet because i was looking for realistic controls first :)

If i can be of any help with that you may always contact me at : shipping@telenet.be

Greetings
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Tugmaster in Port of Antwerp on a Voith Water Tractor 50Ton BP

LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 14:36:12 »

Hello Salty,
Well, the Ship preview is strictly the display of the ship as described in her own folder, combined with the dynamics (.act file) and the default sea.
Perhaps have I overlooked how to replace the existing version of Bugsier2 by this pure VSP version.
3 files have been modified, dot act, bdg and smc.
Act files of all ships/objects are in the same folder C:\Program Files (x86)\Vstep\ShipSimExtremes\Projects\ShipSimExtremes\Data\Entities\Dynamics
The other ship files are in the C:\Program Files (x86)\Vstep\ShipSimExtremes\Projects\ShipSimExtremes\Data\Entities\Ships\Bugsier2 specific folder.
Two files have been changed vs the BS2 VSP Rotor, the Bugsier2.bdg and the Bugsier2.smc.
In Bugsier2.bdg, the stern thruster control is removed, and its graphics have been removed in the smc file.

The Bugsier2 VSP.zip should be opened, and its content, ie the ShipSimExtremes folder, thrown in the C:\Program Files (x86)\Vstep folder. Insertion/replacement must then be allowed.

You can alternatively replace the files one by one if you prefer, or insert the Bugsier2 VSP folder in the CP1.2 folder, zipped or not.

Hopefully, I didn't worsen the explanations...
Regards,
Luc
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LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 14:57:37 »

Hello Belgianevo,

I cannot help for controls, other than to resort to real ones, a rather expensive kind of potentiometer sublimation.
In game, the number of available graphical controls is limited, and so are their interactions with the simulated ship.
That is why pitch and RPM are linked in a combinator model for all ships with controllable pitch.

If you had the game and intended to play online, you could eventually also get in touch with the NL moderators (Zeeuwse, Hollandse,..?) to find a suitable group: Nice people!

Regards,
Luc
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LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 16:09:12 »

Hello hiran,

Looking at the video you pointed out and this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fGFxCL-yI
I believe the controls in SSE are more like Z drive controls than the VSP.
You are right, Bugsier2 controls are Z-drive azimuthal controls,  she is indeed a tractor tug, with two Aquamaster US 305 Twin-Screw Rudder-Propeller in Kort nozzles as propulsion.
But the controls of the modified versions of the tugs have been adapted to reflect the Voith Schneider or standard propulsions.
For VSP, the driving pitch controls are represented by twin sliding controls, the rudder pitch by a wheel for both VSPs.

Regards,
Luc
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hiran

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 21:49:38 »

Hello hiran,
You are right, Bugsier2 controls are Z-drive azimuthal controls,  she is indeed a tractor tug, with two Aquamaster US 305 Twin-Screw Rudder-Propeller in Kort nozzles as propulsion.
But the controls of the modified versions of the tugs have been adapted to reflect the Voith Schneider or standard propulsions.
For VSP, the driving pitch controls are represented by twin sliding controls, the rudder pitch by a wheel for both VSPs.

Regards,
Luc
Ah, that clarifies. Thank you. I will try to get the modification installed as you described above.
Just wondering whether it will give me an additional ship or if I would overwrite the existing Bugsier 2?
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LucAtC

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Re: Voith Schneider Controls - Real Life
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2016, 01:33:49 »

The various CP1.2 versions of Cratus and Bugsier2 tugs simply overwrite the ongoing/actual version. Power and handling characteristics are different, but not so much that they wouldn't be able to conduct any assigned missions, at least up to now. At any rate, switching between the versions is very easy

Regards,
Luc
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