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Author Topic: Realistic?  (Read 30272 times)

LucAtC

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2007, 20:56:18 »

Hello Clanky,
You are of course right, hydrodynamics of any ship is extremely complex, and one can thank or congratulate VStep for the work they did until now and the pleasure the sim gives us.
Also, to answer the objection of J3nsen, I shall try to stay brief on this thread started in May. It was indeed not the first one on the subject.
From a different point of view, flight aerodynamics are as complex as ship hydrodynamics, and there are ship simulations/games with very credible handling characteristics, as e.g. the Virtual Skipper series. Big or small, from hydrodynamics point of view, it makes no difference. Certainly, pc's are today able to simulate the motions of any ship in any situation.
Proof of that, is that (with the sim as it is now) all movements of the ships are mocked up now, although not realistically, and it means equations of movements exist and are implemented, mostly correctly. The wind forces are not simulated as yet, nor the field of streams and stream gradient derived forces.
Second proof is the Polaris bridge (Kongsberg) simulator (I have no idea of the graphics rendering) http://www.simrad.com/KS/WEB/NOKBG0397.nsf/AllWeb/E8B9781F14BE35D4C125711F004821A2/$file/Release_5_0.pdf?OpenElement.
Apart from that, propeller thrust, rudder forces, ship static and dynamic parameters are simulated, computed and rendered. Also, there are more than enough nautical and maritime references in the NL to be sure the developers know which equations they would have to use to simulate the behavior of a ship in any circumstance, and to check if the sim is correct with professional 2D programs. 
So, why is it not yet realistic enough, so as to puzzle even people who have less experience, although competent beta-testers try to help?
The answer must be lying in the physics engine, capable of simulating any object undergoing any kind of forces, but ignoring hydrodynamic ones. The problem is how to incorporate smoothly and credibly these forces and the reactions of the ship. It is not that the developers tried to simplify ship manoeuvring, it is an ongoing development of the game.
Of course, handling a big ship without causing damage is an art necessitating much training. That is also why realistic simulations are needed. There are on our rivers many young men/women skippers of (?) not so small ships, even sometimes up to 110 m and 2300 to 3000 ton, who didnt quite qualify in Maritime Academies, and nevertheless manoeuvre their ship in narrow canals, rivers and harbors, crossing 10 locks a day, having gained the skills mostly through experience.
Also, dont you think mooring a VLCC could be enjoyable for 3 or 4 players, in multiplayer?
Of course, it is only an opinion about fun...?
Regards,
Luc
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clanky

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2007, 21:05:21 »

Just one thing, the last time that i was on a professional ship simulator, the guy was doing the introduction talk and he turned the weather effects on to show what could be done and then carried on describing ll the various nav aids on the bridge.  After about 5 minutes I had to ask him to turn the weather effects off because I was starting to feel a bit seasick.

So be careful what you wish for, you just might get it :D
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LucAtC

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2007, 21:14:32 »

Thanks, never mind, I have the privilege of never being seasick (sometimes a disadvantage).
Also, have a pleasant voyage with nice sunsets and warm water,
Regards
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clanky

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2007, 21:16:36 »

Thanks Stuart, i wish i could say the same thing about sea sickness, as a professional seafarer it tends to be a bit of a pain in the ass :D

EDIT: just realised this was supposed to be for luc, not Stuart :o

Kinda stressful time :D
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 06:31:12 by clanky »
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Stuart2007

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2007, 21:34:54 »

Thanks for your important contribution...  ::)
If you don't have time to follow this discussion, then simply don't follow it.  ;)
And here was me thinking sarcasm was a British invention ;)

Stu
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Sam

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2007, 19:58:54 »

Ive manouverd a p&o ferry once with the Polaris bridge simulator in the national maritime museum in Londen.

Now that was realistic! I took me ages to stop the ship and to let it turn.
Even  just moving the rudder took a long time.
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R.Cain

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2007, 07:21:00 »

Hi,

Luc, and all, thanks for your input.  Cheers!

 :)
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Bottman

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2007, 07:23:52 »

Even  just moving the rudder took a long time.

That's what we even told VSTEP!
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Bottman

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JHB

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2007, 07:37:48 »

Ive manouverd a p&o ferry once with the Polaris bridge simulator in the national maritime museum in Londen.

Now that was realistic! I took me ages to stop the ship and to let it turn.
Even  just moving the rudder took a long time.

Sounds realistic. I have tried the Polaris bridge simulator too which is something totally different than Ship Simulator that's for sure. ;D
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Stuart2007

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2007, 10:55:35 »

Yes, but I suspect Polaris doesn't sell their simulator for £24.99

Next you will be comparing MSFS an a professional/commercial flight simulator  :o

Stu
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blake172005

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2009, 09:51:24 »

Quote
The answer must be lying in the physics engine, capable of simulating any object undergoing any kind of forces, but ignoring hydrodynamic ones. The problem is how to incorporate smoothly and credibly these forces and the reactions of the ship.

hear is an interesting physics engine that could do some good in ship simulation.

hydroengine
Up until now, water in games has been just a background effect. Smoke and mirrors have been employed to give the impression of surface ripples and waves, but the water itself has been static.
HydroEngine is the first fluid dynamics engine for games, developed over several years by Blade's R&D team to do one thing: bring water to games which looks and behaves exactly like the real thing.
HydroEngine Features:
·   Water flows from one area to another
·   Objects get carried realistically by the flow
·   Surfaces and characters become wet when touched by the water, and dry out over time
·   Emergent effects such as eddies and underwater currents occur just like real water
·   Spray and splashes are generated dynamically according to forces acting on the water
·   Surface foam and infinite underwater particles follow the flow
·   Dynamic caustic lights cause walls and floor to shimmer as water passes through
·   Water can apply forces to objects, walls, windows and doors, causing them to buckle under the
             pressure
check out hydroengin at youtube

if properly implemented this could do wonders for a game like this.
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JHB

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2009, 10:20:30 »

hear is an interesting physics engine that could do some good in ship simulation.

hydroengine
Up until now, water in games has been just a background effect. Smoke and mirrors have been employed to give the impression of surface ripples and waves, but the water itself has been static.
HydroEngine is the first fluid dynamics engine for games, developed over several years by Blade's R&D team to do one thing: bring water to games which looks and behaves exactly like the real thing.
HydroEngine Features:
·   Water flows from one area to another
·   Objects get carried realistically by the flow
·   Surfaces and characters become wet when touched by the water, and dry out over time
·   Emergent effects such as eddies and underwater currents occur just like real water
·   Spray and splashes are generated dynamically according to forces acting on the water
·   Surface foam and infinite underwater particles follow the flow
·   Dynamic caustic lights cause walls and floor to shimmer as water passes through
·   Water can apply forces to objects, walls, windows and doors, causing them to buckle under the
             pressure
check out hydroengin at youtube

if properly implemented this could do wonders for a game like this.

I doubt it, I feel like I know VSTEP already ::)
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woah

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2009, 17:35:12 »

The ships are very realistic :2thumbs:, i've been on many and experienced the waves :captain:.
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firestar12

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2009, 21:31:36 »

This topic is almost 6 months old, please don't raise old topics. ;)
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Capt. Matt

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2009, 21:45:38 »

Hehe why's everyone looking at me :doh:
Yes terry gave me the trophe of old topic raiser I was bored and hit pg 103 saw something interesting and posted in it lol.
I thought that terry would give me a jar of marmite :doh: but it was a slap in the face with a smoked herring  :thumbdown:  :lol:
So ill let old topics  :sleepy:
Maybe...
Matt
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Capt. Matt

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2009, 21:54:31 »

Hehe already won the slap in the face but I thought that terry would give me a jar of Marmite :evil: :doh:
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Capt. Matt

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2009, 22:03:36 »

I saw that I was going to post in it but no point to post in that I saw a post what would you do if you died  :doh: One of the choices is blame the Mexicans I think :doh:
Matt
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firestar12

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2009, 22:04:27 »

I saw that I was going to post in it but no point to post in that I saw a post what would you do if you died  :doh: One of the choices is blame the Mexicans I think :doh:
Matt
I am sure if I was a Mexican, I would find that very offensive. That was not a very good thing to say just then...
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Capt. Matt

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Re: Realistic?
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2009, 22:35:17 »

I dont know :lol:
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