Topic: Costa Allegra on fire (Read 4406 times)

The Ferry Man · « **on:** February 27, 2012, 18:00:19 »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107175/Costa-Allegra-Concordias-sister-ship-adrift-Indian-Ocean-Seychelles.html?ITO=1490

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17183134

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/27/costa-concordia-sister-ship-adrift

Reports coming in that there has been a fire onboard the Costa Allegra, and that she has lost power

Not a good year for Costa Cruises :/

*Pretty sure that she is NOT a sister of the Concordia, despite the reports by the Mail that she is...

larsdehaan · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2012, 20:10:06 »

nope she is NOT a sistership of but sad to hear, things are going bad with my favorite cruise line..

Rbsanford · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2012, 22:32:57 »

is there news about whether she will sail again? she's so beutiful...

danny · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2012, 23:59:35 »

From what I've been told, the fire has been extingwished aboard, and the engineers are now working to restore power and restart the main engine.
Various rescue assets from the seychells are also en-route, including salvage tugs.

Captain007 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:30:28 »

Yes, the fire is luckely out

She is now being towed to the next island by a French fishing boat.
I find it really weird that there is no tug!

2012 is for Costa no lucky year

I hope this was the last incident

clanky · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2012, 10:16:51 »

Apparently there are tugs on the way, however, I can't imagine the fishing boat allowing them anywhere near the ship, that's a hell of a big salvage claim.

If the ship is towed to port then the salvage claim (regardless of who claims) will be another huge financial burden on Costa's insurers and eventually on the company itself. Apart from the financial implications, you have to wonder how many hits one brand can take. If I were mr. Costa I would be out there myself repainting the funnels in any colour apart from yellow.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2012, 18:56:44 »

Apparently there's very little difference in the booking figures for costa-lot-money.

The reason for this, as far as I can see, is costa is cheap compared to other similar spec shipping operators.

Still you get what you pay for.

Incidentally, although there is this argument as to whether the ship is 20 year old or 43 as when its keel was laid, they did seem to do quite a bad job in converting this ship from its previous life as a freighter... Even the Fantasia and Fiesta at Dover were converted more sympathetically to asthetics and they were 'only' ferries.

RYAN123 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2012, 22:10:58 »

My grandad's reaction was "Costa should be used to fires When i was on HMS Londonderry We had to tow Bianca C out of harbour because it was on fire...."

My reaction: oh, that sucks...

danny · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2012, 23:17:17 »

Interestingly, I have been told by a friend of mine that costa doesn't actually have insurance, insted, each vessel is registered as its own LLC, and costa simply move enough capital around to (in theory) cover the cost of any minor muck-ups that may occur...

clanky · « **Reply #9 on:** February 29, 2012, 07:22:36 »

Marine insurance is incredibly complicated, but there are some insurances which are statutary requirements, so Costa will have insurance.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2012, 03:51:38 »

Quote from: RYAN123 on February 28, 2012, 22:10:58

My grandad's reaction was "Costa should be used to fires When i was on HMS Londonderry We had to tow Bianca C out of harbour because it was on fire...."

My reaction: oh, that sucks...

Sucks??? What has negative pressure got to do with it. Stop these silly words will you please? The English language is a fine and varied language; use it properly please!!!

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2012, 03:55:27 »

Quote from: clanky on February 29, 2012, 07:22:36

Marine insurance is incredibly complicated, but there are some insurances which are statutary requirements, so Costa will have insurance.

Does it include breakdown cover and windscreen repair without affecting your no claims discount?

Gab · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:21:56 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on March 01, 2012, 03:51:38

Sucks??? What has negative pressure got to do with it. Stop these silly words will you please? The English language is a fine and varied language; use it properly please!!!

Eheh, you just made my day! Shame it ends in less than 2 hours though...

Quote from: danny on February 28, 2012, 23:17:17

Interestingly, I have been told by a friend of mine that costa doesn't actually have insurance, insted, each vessel is registered as its own LLC, and costa simply move enough capital around to (in theory) cover the cost of any minor muck-ups that may occur...

Fortunately for them, this is not how it works, otherwise they would be in deep troubles! But I think there are few organizations that companies are invited to join. That kind of companies work on the principle you stated: everyone give his share and then when an accident occurs, the money is spent to protect the company that got the accident. This is how I understood it, P&I Club being an example.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2012, 17:28:47 »

Gab

I think what he actually means is compartmentalisation of a large company into lots of smaller companies- such as carnival have done with peeandohno, cunard, costa... if, for example, costa fails, po will buy the ships of costa (those that are left!) but any debts dies with the costa and does not affect the finances of the other subsidiaries.

I've done the same with my company. In fact, I think I have more companies split than my accountant has brain cells; but that's not hard.

danny · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2012, 17:47:01 »

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Costa+Allegra+passengers+leave+crippled+cruise+ship/6234133/story.html
The costa allegra has finally reached port, and the passengers have disembarked.

Stuart is correct, Costa have basically split there company up into lots of little ones, or "LLC's" (so there not proper companies). I belive other shipping companies use the same practise.

clanky · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2012, 19:12:25 »

What many companies do is to have a separate owning company for each individual ship and then the parent company will manage the ships on behalf of the owning companies, this limits the parent companies liability to some extent, but ultimately they will still take a massive hit on something like this.

As for insurance the 2 main types of insurance on a ship are P&I insurance which covers damage to cargo and crew as well as unexpected costs and hull and machinery insurance which covers physical damage to the structure of the ship and it's machinery. There are many more insurance policies applicable to ships, but those are the main ones.

For the Allegra incident the damage caused by the fire will be covered by H&M, any claims arising out of the inconvenience to the cargo and (what was hopefully) the towage contract to bring the vessel back to port will be covered by P&I.

P&I is a form of mutual insurance where everyone pays a premium which goes into a big pot and is used to pay claims, if one company claims against the P&I club then their premiums are simply increased over the next few years to cover the cost so that other members of the club do not end up paying for each others losses.

H&M works on a slightly different basis.

I certainly wouldn't want to be try to ensure anything with a yellow funnel at the moment.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2012, 03:29:46 »

Quote from: clanky on March 01, 2012, 19:12:25

I certainly wouldn't want to be try to ensure anything with a yellow funnel at the moment.

Well that's the po cruises fleet scuppered then!

Gab · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2012, 05:06:23 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on March 01, 2012, 17:28:47

Gab

I think what he actually means is compartmentalisation of a large company into lots of smaller companies- such as carnival have done with peeandohno, cunard, costa... if, for example, costa fails, po will buy the ships of costa (those that are left!) but any debts dies with the costa and does not affect the finances of the other subsidiaries.

Oh ok, sorry I misunderstood then. Thanks !

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2012, 19:07:26 »

Quote from: Gab on March 02, 2012, 05:06:23

Oh ok, sorry I misunderstood then. Thanks !

Oh no, you didn't misunderstand. I think you are probably closer to Clankys point than either I or Danny (and Clanky should know a bit about it!)

Danny, I think you are right in principle- that is the companies are split into sub companies- with carnival as parent, and costa as child- but your version would have each ship as effectively grandchild companies; I'm not sure that is correct, but it certainly can't be ruled out- the Italians will have a version of British companies house (you can see for example pee and ohno! have split the company into many different ones, but not split by ship- but it's not to say costa haven't.)

Gab · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2012, 21:30:33 »

Yes Clanky knows a lot about this, a lot more than me!

Quote from: danny on February 28, 2012, 23:17:17

[...] each vessel is registered as its own LLC, and costa simply move enough capital around to (in theory) cover the cost of any minor muck-ups that may occur...

That is the part I didn't understand/consider in my post.

clanky · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2012, 06:52:19 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2012, 03:29:46

Well that's the po cruises fleet scuppered then!

I await that day with pleasure and anticipation.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2012, 18:13:52 »

Quote from: clanky on March 05, 2012, 06:52:19

I await that day with pleasure and anticipation.

Ah, Mr Clanky is not a big fan of pee and ohno!???

clanky · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2012, 19:38:01 »

Mr Clanky used to work for P&O / Princess Cruises and, as such, retains a deep seated hatred for the company.

As for the point about each ship being split into seperate companies, I'm not sure how Costa do it, but it is quite normal for each ship in a fleet to be owned by a separate holding company, this company can either be wholly or partly owned by the parent company who effectively charter and manage the ship or it can even be owned by an investment group.

In this way if the ship were to sink then mv Bathtub Ltd. would go bankrupt, whereas Dodgy Cruising Limited would simply continue to manage the other ships which they chartered from mv Rustbucket Ltd and mv Barely floating Ltd. and the only company liable for damages would be mv Bathtub limited and their insurers.

Dodgy Cruises limited would continue to trade, albeit with higher insurance premiums for all of their managed vessels and a slightly tarnished reputation, but without being exposed to any debts left behind by mv Bathtub Ltd.

Hope that clarifies it a bit.

michael_taal · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2012, 21:32:21 »

the costa allegra will not return into service she will/is sold to a scrapyard the prices to repare are to high and it is an very old ship (she was a containership first)

On March 9, Costa Crociere announced that the "Costa Allegra" would not return to service with Costa. The vessel, which needs costly repairs, will be sold or scrapped. It is one of the oldest and smallest ships in the Costa fleet, and it had been for sale for some time before the much-publicized fire in one of its engine rooms Feb. 27.

The company has completely written down the value of the ship on its books. Costa was redeploying a similar-size vessel, the "Costa Voyager", to take the "Costa Allegra"'s place in coming months on European itineraries. Previously scheduled sailings in the Red Sea on the "Costa Voyager" were, in turn, canceled.

danny · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2012, 23:08:38 »

The Allegra has been up for sale on a well known site for the past 4, maybe even 5 years!
Last time I checked they wanted something like 50 million for her... I doubt they will be asking for that much now

Author Topic: Costa Allegra on fire (Read 4406 times)

larsdehaan