Staten Island Ferry mission

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[jeffmorris]

I tried to create the Staten Island Ferry mission using the Red Eagle ferry boat but I got confused by its controls. I tried the Red Jet 4 ferry boat and it took the boat about 8 minutes to go from Staten Island to Manhattan. The real Staten Island Ferry boats take about 25 minutes per trip. After searching this forum for messages related to the Red Eagle ferry boat, I found out how the controls are supposed to work and found out that if you want to turn the boat left, you have to turn the wheels on top of the console right. I have a steering wheel/pedal set usually used for driving/racing games. Will it work with the Red Eagle ferry boat? If I wish to go back to Staten Island, how do I drive the boat in the other direction?

[mvsmith]

I tried to create the Staten Island Ferry mission using the Red Eagle ferry boat but I got confused by its controls.
If I wish to go back to Staten Island, how do I drive the boat in the other direction?

Take the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.
Seriously, we need a proper New York style Staten Island ferry.
If it’s not already in that long list, perhaps using the early spelling “Staaten Eylandt” might get more attention from our Dutch friends.
We could also use a Moran or McAllister tug of the Little Toot style.

[Wout]

It's not the Dutch people who prevent the ferry from being introduced in the game, it's the ferry company. We tried to get the ferry in the game, as well as the NY water taxi, but didn't get permission. If you could arrange that however...

[Captain Davies]

I tried to create the Staten Island Ferry mission using the Red Eagle ferry boat but I got confused by its controls. I tried the Red Jet 4 ferry boat and it took the boat about 8 minutes to go from Staten Island to Manhattan. The real Staten Island Ferry boats take about 25 minutes per trip. After searching this forum for messages related to the Red Eagle ferry boat, I found out how the controls are supposed to work and found out that if you want to turn the boat left, you have to turn the wheels on top of the console right. I have a steering wheel/pedal set usually used for driving/racing games. Will it work with the Red Eagle ferry boat? If I wish to go back to Staten Island, how do I drive the boat in the other direction?

I don't think it will because you're steering wheel will always return to the neutral position after you've truned it, and so will the Red Eagle controls.

[mvsmith]

It's not the Dutch people who prevent the ferry from being introduced in the game,

Sorry I left off the smiley, Wout. I was pointing out, perhaps ineptly, that you guys once owned the place.
I understand your difficulty in obtaining permission to use trademarks or copyrighted logos. I don’t understand the attitude of those who deny it.
New York was one of the birthplaces of towing and ship-assist, so it would be nice to see it developed further—especially in tugs and barges of various eras going back to the side-wheel steam towboats.
 
Marty

[mvsmith]

how do I drive the boat in the other direction?

Driving the Red Eagle sternward from the bridge:
Usually the bow is the pointy end of the boat, but for ferries it can get real complicated.
Simple solution: camera two is at the bow control station.
To operate from the stern station, use camera 3. The stern controls look like the bow controls except for the engine switches.
There are two sets of controls. The nearer set with the larger wheel is for the stern VSP, which is now in front of you and is like a bow thruster.
The farther set with the smaller wheel is for the bow VSP, which is now behind you and is your rudder, or stern thruster.
The wheels on the side are the respective RPM controls. You may need to shift right, with the right arrow key, in order to turn them.
The white needles point in the direction of thrust.
Normal steering—like with a rudder—is done with the smaller wheel (the bow VSP which is now behind you). NOTE that wheel movement is counterintuitive. You turn the wheel left (counterclockwise) to turn the ship to starboard (“right rudder”).
Because helm orders, at least on US ships, must be given as Right Rudder or Left Rudder instead of colorful but ambiguous “Port your helm”, there should be big arrows to show the helmsman what’s right and left. (as there are in most US wheelhouses)

You can steer with the larger wheel, which is intuitive. The ship turns in the same direction as the wheel.
Remember, however, that you are steering with the “bow thruster”.

Stopping and backing present a special problem unless you can spin both wheels together.
As you turn one thruster 180 degrees, you will also kick the bow or stern as you go through 90 degrees.
You might want to reduce RPM to 0 while you reverse.
A cheat available at the stern station is to double-click the center of the wheel. This centers the wheel at 0 degrees, which is backing for you.

[mvsmith]

We tried to get the ferry in the game, as well as the NY water taxi, but didn't get permission.

I hope you won’t have to re-negotiate rights to show the Fairmount ships now that they are owned by the French firm Louis Dreyfus Armateurs.

With all the eagerness expressed in the forums to see ships sink, I’m not surprised that firms are reluctant to see their logos disappear beneath the waves.

[jeffmorris]

I drove the Red Eagle ferry boat from Staten Island to Manhattan following mvsmith's instructions. The boat arrived at the terminal a minute late (26 minutes). I think that the ferry companies in NYC won't give VSTEP permission to use their boats in SS2008 because they're afraid that bad people will learn how to take over the controls of the boats and crash them. When Microsoft released Train Simulator several years ago, UP RR won't give Microsoft permission to use their trains in MSTS and threatened to sue anyone who create trains owned by UP RR for MSTS because they're afraid that bad people will learn how to take over the controls of the trains and crash them. Some people thought that terrorists used MSFS to learn how to fly airplanes and crash them into buildings.

[Captain Davies]

They did use MSFS to learn, or at least brush up on it.

[mvsmith]

Jeff, I think UP’s refusal to let MS and Auran use their logo has more to do with protecting corporate image and copyright than guarding against terrorism. After all, there are more than a few EMD diesels in the Middle East—some owned by the Bin Laden family. Iraq has a substantial rail network. Terrorists needn’t rely on imperfect simulations to learn how to drive a loco.
If terrorists did indeed use MSFS to crash into the WTC, they must have been as disappointed with the result as many forum members are with sinking. The things they needed to get from US flight schools were not covered in the sim.
The Staten Island Ferry doesn’t have to rely on outside help from terrorists to crash their boats. Their own skipper has recently demonstrated his capability to do that.
Companies don’t want their vessels or any products portrayed in bad ways. If they watch the forums, they might get the impression that the main objective of simmers is to do just that.
If you ran a cruise line, would you like to find, on the internet, a video of your Princess of the Whatever sinking?

[jeffmorris]

A few years ago, the pilot fainted before docking the SI Ferry boat because he was taking medication for his medical problems that he didn't tell the ferry company or the Coast Guard about. There is a rule saying that at least two persons must be in the pilot house and that rule was broken.

[mvsmith]

Jeff, I added this to a post in another topic.
I’m repeating it here in case you miss the other.
The main way in which the sim departs from the actual VSP control system is as follows:
On the control stand that is depicted, the side wheels control the thrust from 0 to the maximum established for the vessel (100%).
The indication of the thrust on the HUD is labeled RPM, and goes from 0 to 500 (100%).
This is because that’s a one-size-fits-all HUD.
The control stand shown does represent the type that is fitted on double-ended installations.
Remember that the VSP is driven at a constant speed, and only in one direction.
One of the big advantages of the VSP is that it can be driven by a high speed non-reversing diesel engine.
This eliminates the lag in going astern if the diesel has to stop and reverse, and the lag in reversing the direction of any massive rotating device.
It’s a big advantage for the Bridge, because they don’t have to talk to those guys in the engine room.

I’ll write a detailed explanation of how the VSP works, when I get a round tuit.

Jeff, if VSTEP ever got permission, one SI ferry to model would be the Andrew J. Barbery built 1977.
She has a capacity of 6,000 passengers—no vehicles.
She has VSPs and three decks.

[jeffmorris]

I think that retired SI ferry boats can be used in SS2008.

[mvsmith]

I would think so, but SIF may be more concerned with their name than with a specific boat. We might have a better chance with ferries from an earlier time—nice wooden firetraps.

[jeffmorris]

Tugboats007's SI Ferry mission is good but I had problems docking the boat at the terminal thanks to VSP control system. I rather have regular control system.

[Voics]

...SIF may be more concerned with their name than with a specific boat.

OK how about branding them differently, like 'Gotham City Ferry' and 'Gotham Water Taxi'? To be on the safe side change the models a bit, block out a couple of windows... is that a possibility?

[alazose]

I agree.  How about using “generic” ferries whenever permission for the genuine article is withheld?  Case in point:  Our own “Ocean Star” could be perceived as being any current luxury liner.  The same should apply to New York ferries.    Why not start with a current ferry, change the lines, colors, and other features enough to satisfy the legalities, slap on a phony logo, and you’re home free.  After all, this is a computer simulation.  Let’s be realistic about being too realistic.