Topic: Custom Controllers (Read 7688 times)

ekto · « **on:** January 11, 2011, 07:53:13 »

Hi !

A couple of years back, I was building an azimuth controller to SS08. But because the game settings, there was no way of getting them to work. I didn't complete the build, since I was waiting for a change to those settings. Here's a few pics of the controller:

The idea was that one potentiometer controls the direction and another controls the engine. There would be two of these to simulate the real thing:

Since I don't have the game or access to it, I have some questions:
In the newest Extreme 1.3, what happens if you map a joystick X-axis to the rudder and Y-axis to throttle?

EDIT: It seams that I posted this to the general discussion, instead of the main board. Could a moderator move it one level up?

ekto · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2011, 19:38:09 »

Any change for someone to test a joystick with Bugsier 2? Set the X-axis to rudder and Y-axis to throttle? I would apriciate this.

Captain Spencer · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2011, 19:51:58 »

All moved

Atlantis05 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2011, 21:14:13 »

Hi,

what exactly shall we look out for... as I ve got the shipdriver I did already assign the axis to potis..

best wishes,
Holger

PI48895 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2011, 21:25:31 »

Quote from: ekto on January 12, 2011, 19:38:09

Any change for someone to test a joystick with Bugsier 2? Set the X-axis to rudder and Y-axis to throttle? I would apriciate this.

ekto, this is a very cool idea. It should work once you find a couple Joystick encoder boards to connect to your pots. SSE does a good job of differentiating between controllers. I connected two ShipDriver controllers and was able to assign a rudder control and throttle control from each to a separate azipod in Bugsier 2. SSE identifies them as Joystick 1 and Joystick 2.

I hope that was helpful. Can't wait to see more pics and reports on your project.

ekto · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2011, 08:38:59 »

Thanks for your replies.

So what I want to know is that what happens with bugsier 2, when you have pots or joystick axis defined to rudders and throttle.

With pots, what happens when you turn the potentiometer that is defined as a rudder 1. Does the rudder turn and does the throttle stay still?

Same with joystick, if you define X-axis to rudder one, does moving a joystick sideways turn the rudder, but not affect the throttle?

If above conditions are true, then I can build by controller for SSE.

If moving a joystick to the left, changes the rudder to left and then increases throttle, we can use a different option, which would be a lot easier. We can just remove the spring from the joystick, so that it stays in it position. The pots are usually stiff enough to hold the stick in its position. This is the principle of centering spring:

Could someone test with a joystick, what happens when it's pulled in different directions using bugsier 2?

ekto · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2011, 08:52:34 »

Quote from: PI48895 on January 12, 2011, 21:25:31

It should work once you find a couple Joystick encoder boards to connect to your pots.

I already have the board to do that:

The design model

Testing with the real deal

I have all electric and mechanical parts, such as connectors, circuits, cables and housings, to complete the build. Problem earlier was with the game.

Quote

control and throttle control from each to a separate azipod

If this is true, then I can complete my build. But let's see if the joystick idea would work, since it would be a lot easier...

pigdog · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:49:26 »

Hi ekto, glad to see your getting your build underway again.

The problems we were facing before with the way in which the azimuth controls were implimented in the game have been resolved thankfully, so you can assign the rudder and it will only control the rudder and has no effect on the throttle.
The bugsier 2 now steers as she should, it's 100% better and so much more controllable with custom controllers and the 2nd helm view looking astern is (for me) one of the best improvements.
I am going to do some testing with the 360 degree pots when I get some time but for now I'm using standard ones, I may build a dedicated azimuth controller just for the B2 and use my orginal one for standard vessels, the only problem there is that the game will only recognize 1 controller at a time so you have to come out of the game switch controllers then start the game again which in itself will take the best part of 15 minutes by the time its loaded and your ready to start, this is an annoying thing especially when testing controllers as you have to go all the way back to the main menu to adjust your controller settings then wait for it to load again, my electricity bill is through the roof as I keep making cups of tea and coffee whilst waiting for it to load!

I've tested it with a joystick that is sprung loaded to return to 0 and it works fine BUT! if your thinking of building yours this way so it is sprung loaded you will need to have precission steering enabled and it is nowhere near as responsive and the slightest touch can send it too far in one direction, if it was me I would go with seperate pots 1 for the steering and 1 for throttles it's much more responsive.

Denis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2011, 12:52:44 »

Quote from: pigdog on January 13, 2011, 12:49:26

the only problem there is that the game will only recognize 1 controller at a time so you have to come out of the game switch controllers then start the game again which in itself will take the best part of 15 minutes by the time its loaded and your ready to start, this is an annoying thing especially when testing controllers as you have to go all the way back to the main menu to adjust your controller settings then wait for it to load again, my electricity bill is through the roof as I keep making cups of tea and coffee whilst waiting for it to load!

Hi pigdog,

If I may give you a hint : if you create several user profiles within the game, the control assignment will be saved per user. That way, you can create a user profile for your different hardware profiles, so that you can switch from one profile to another, without needing to reconfigure all your control assignements

pigdog · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2011, 13:24:19 »

Ok thanks Denis, I dont need to reconfigure it for each vessel it works with them all but if I wanted to build a seperate dedicated azimuth controller just for the B2, red jet and cruise ship then wouldn't I still have to return to the main menu to use that controller as it would be in a different USB slot? or with another user profile created will it allow 2 controllers to work at the same time?

Pigdog

Denis · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2011, 13:35:35 »

Well, the different profiles allow you to save different control assignment layouts.

BTW, extremes allows you to use 2 controllers at the same time. I personnally use at the same time a Ship Console plus a Saitek Throttle quadrant (for the thrusters), it works good.

pigdog · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2011, 13:50:34 »

Yes I get you now

, right I've found my problem a loose connection in my logitech joystick and it does indeed allow two controllers to work at the same time, sorry ekto my bad! I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work I thought maybe input 2 was just for keyboard commands

Right in that case then I'll have to dust off the soldering iron and build myself a seperate set of azimuth controls.

Thanks Denis.

Pigdog

ekto · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2011, 14:22:57 »

Thank you bigdog for your response.

I've been doing some research for the joystick idea. It seems that all modern joystick use optical method, not pots, so modifying a normal commercial joystick would not do.

But I found a suitable inexpensive ($30) joystick that works with pots:
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=1016

The board that I'm using supports those pots and can handle enough axis:
http://leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/

I think I could test those out, since the original idea of my control was that it would be inexpensive, so that most users would be able to get it. To make a second set of my controllers with normal prices (no favors from friends), they would cost anywhere from 500 to 1.000 euro.

But now I need to get the game, hope that my new laptop is up to it and order those sticks. Thanks for the responses!

pigdog · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2011, 14:35:44 »

That's what I used the BU0836 works really well I have 2 throttle, 2 steering, 2 360degree pots 2 thrusters and 4 spare buttons all connected a handy bit of kit.

ekto · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2011, 14:41:46 »

pigdog, can you add a center dead point with that software? Since I would not be too interested of making some kind of stops at the rotary shaft, I would not be ableto always set the stick perfectly center. That's why it would be nice to have some dead point.

EDIT:
I just read your earlier post again.
Explain me one more time, what will happen if you have normal joystick. Can it be used so that if you pull left, it would turn the azimuth and increse throttle? And if you pull back, it would turn the azimuth 180 decrees and increse throttle? And when you put the joystick back to center it will stop?

How does the result differ with precicion On or Off?

pigdog · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2011, 16:37:22 »

Ok regarding the centre point of the 360 pots no there is no physical centre point I think I have the same 360's as in your photo got them from Leo, on my original controller I fitted a small plastic idicator & configured the centre point in windows settings for game controllers which corresponded with a mark on the console, seemed to work fine.

With the joystick test I used my logitech standard USB joystick, I set left & right as port & stbd and forwad as throttle increase and pull back as throttle decrease it was nice and smooth for turning left and right and the throttle was smooth, because it is spring loaded to 0 when you take your hand off, throttle and steering return to 0.

With precission steering on you have to physically set it back to 0 but it's not as accurate.
The way in which the azimuth works in SSE is much better than in ss08 getting over the problems we all had before when designing our azimuth controls.

Your original design that you were working on for SS08 should now work fine.

Pigdog.

ekto · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2011, 19:48:36 »

Pigdog,

If I understand right, your joystick tests are done with a conventional ship, that has rudder and propeller. I would like to get some tests done with the Bugsier 2.

Whit Bugsier 2 and a normal joystick that is set to one of the pods. What happens when the joystick is pulled to some direction? Does the joystick movement affect the rudder and the throtlle?

If someone with the newest version could do this test, it would be great.

Denis · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2011, 19:52:47 »

Hi Ekto,

I'm not sure I understand well your question. But, if I've well understood it :

You setup one axis for the rudder (or azipod rotation) and one axis for the thrust.

That means, if you've set up a joystick, with X axis for rotation, and Y axis for thrust :

If you move your joystick X axis full right (with 0 for Y axis), you just turn the pod,
If you move it full ahead (with 0 for X axis), you just set thrust to full ahead (pod at 0Â°).

Is that what you wanted to know ?

ekto · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2011, 19:59:02 »

Quote from: Denis on January 13, 2011, 19:52:47

Hi Ekto,

I'm not sure I understand well your question. But, if I've well understood it :

You setup one axis for the rudder (or azipod rotation) and one axis for the thrust.

That means, if you've set up a joystick, with X axis for rotation, and Y axis for thrust :

If you move your joystick X axis full right (with 0 for Y axis), you just turn the pod,
If you move it full ahead (with 0 for X axis), you just set thrust to full ahead (pod at 0Â°).

Is that what you wanted to know ?

Thanks. Is that what actually happends in the game with bugsier 2?

Denis · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2011, 20:06:51 »

with all azimuth propelled ships

ekto · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2011, 20:29:21 »

Quote from: Denis on January 13, 2011, 20:06:51

with all azimuth propelled ships

Thanks. This then rules out of using a non spring detent joystick for an inexpensive azimuth controller.

But also it confirms that my control design will work in SSE. I'll try to get some progress with it next weekend.

Thanks for all the responses and I look forward of buying the SSE.

pigdog · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2011, 21:08:59 »

No ekto my tests were done on the Bugsier 2, it will not effect the throttle when you turn port or stbd as I sai in my earlier post and all the posts connected to azimuth controls in SS08.

ekto · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2011, 07:02:30 »

If I buy the download version, it's not the steam right? I've read that the steam, whatever it even is, has some problems...

Denis · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2011, 10:13:32 »

Hi ekto,

no, if you download from Shipsim.com, you won't have a steam version. But I don't think the Bugsier is available in the demo version, but I might be wrong.

CptFrontII · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2011, 20:01:28 »

Just wondering if ekto or pigdog have had anymore progress on this topic. I am really interested in seeing if an azipod controller is possible.

Author Topic: Custom Controllers (Read 7688 times)