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Author Topic: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0  (Read 8928 times)

djdan

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which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« on: September 09, 2007, 10:46:39 »

i dont know which 1 to get i love boats went on 3 while i was in spain and loved every minute of it i want to know what is better
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Shipaddict

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2007, 10:53:28 »

Shipsim! ;D
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djdan

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 10:59:22 »

can we import the ships from virtual sailer in to ship sim because they seem to have alot of addon ships
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Jazz

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2007, 11:08:50 »

Viritua Sailer is a bit more... free and open, as you can add your own ships.

But other than that, Ship Sim pwns 455. ;D
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djdan

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2007, 11:13:35 »

ok thanks for that info i think you need to make a topic where all the addons are and the people that make them can add them in there and members can download and make them into catagories like big ship small ship etc. so then people know where to get the addons
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Timbo

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2007, 11:24:26 »

can we import the ships from virtual sailer in to ship sim because they seem to have alot of addon ships

Hi,
   First you cannot import ships fro virtual sailor to any shipship sorry,but on a good note.

There will be a ADD ON for shipsim 2008 with a lot of ships
including a cruise liner.

Also they are going to do a subscription service as in the following thread.

http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,1071.0.html

Also the graphics are a lot better than virtual sailor and looks a lot better more like the real world.

Also you can make your own missions and upload them into the shipsim 2008 forum,at the moment
there are quite a few in there,also there is the missoin editor which is coming out wednesday.

Cheers Timbo  :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 11:46:29 by Timbo »
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djdan

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2007, 11:38:31 »

can i just buy a key for this game i need a cd key
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Timbo

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2007, 11:57:10 »

can i just buy a key for this game i need a cd key

Hi djdan,
           Sorry having looked at the webpage looks like you have to download it
or buy the box version to get the cd key,you need this to use a few more forums
on the 2008 forum page.

But on a good note i bought mine from these as follows -

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/3335729/Ship-Simulator-2008/Product.html

Cheers Timbo  :) :) :)
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sniperonthehill

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 07:08:20 »

Ship sim, But Virtual sailor has alot more ships and a cool underwater view which id love shipsim to have!  Will vstep add some Virtual sailor features to shipsim?
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Captain Kool

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2007, 09:01:47 »

I would like to know what is the size of Virtual Sailor in MB to download (not demo)?
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Shipaddict

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 09:17:14 »

When I got it it was 15MB.
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JHB

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2007, 12:57:00 »

Graphics Virtual Sailor

The graphics in Virtual Sailor is much more controlled by the player or the add-on developer. As default you will only find two scenarios that follow Virtual Sailor and some boats. So if you want better graphics in Virtual Sailor then you have to look for add-ons that use computer graphics of high level. I bet your eye and brain will find out which is “high level” or “low level”. Some add-on developers prefer to make simple add-ons which are made within a week or a month. Others prefer more challenging projects where you focus on the details and the overall look of the graphics and where you add all kinds of graphics that you can use in Virtual Sailor. Of course your system will also have important meaning when it comes to the computer graphics in Virtual Sailor. Some add-ons can be a major challenge for a system to render without lagging or low FPS (frames per seconds).
The graphics in Virtual Sailor depends on what add-ons you are using and what kind of add-ons that is available. I don’t think that you will yet find a Titanic model for Virtual Sailor that got the same level of details as the Titanic for Ship Simulator. You must be pretty “mad” if you are going to make something close to this. I have been told that I’m crazy when it comes to my ship model projects for this game so it probably says a lot about what kind of expeditions I got when it comes to the graphics in Virtual Sailor. After all there is a major work to design add-ons with a high level of graphics for this game and it depends on tools, knowledge and time and those three factors will decide what you will end up with.

Graphics Ship Simulator

Ship Simulator is using more modern and common computer graphics which you can find in many popular computer games today. After all the graphics isn’t made by an add-on developer. It’s made by the game developer himself and where you get a more preset (pre-fabricated) game ready to use and you don’t have to download a huge amount of add-ons. The scenes are also made ready and where you have a mission to complete. In Virtual Sailor you need to make your own mission and you may even have to make your own scene or scenario environment to simulate something.

Adjusting the graphics

In Virtual Sailor you can adjust the color of the water. You can modify the clouds and add other cloud models (which you find at the sky), change the color of the sky for any time of the day and even modify the overall look of the environment in the game like the landscape (seasons for example). You can change almost anything in Virtual Sailor.
In Ship Simulator you can… yeah… adjust the level of graphics in some way but you cannot change the landscape or the water color. The game doesn’t give you so many opportunities to change it the way you like the graphics to be.

Weather

In Ship Simulator you can change the weather and sea conditions but you got a limit on the wave high. In Virtual Sailor you can use wave height up to 55 feet and even the strength of the wind and the direction. You can also change the tide, current and the speed of the current. You also got some preset weather profiles just like Ship Simulator.

Traffic

In Virtual Sailor you have to setup your own traffic ships and where they are going to be in the scene. You can place them directly on the map and set the speed and direction. Unfortunately this doesn’t work as well as it should. They can follow a track but it may happen that they get out of this track and is sailing without control. I don’t think that the traffic ships in Virtual Sailor are as intelligent as you find them in Ship Simulator since they will probably not follow the rules of the sea.
In Ship Simulator you can see the ship traffic in a mission and you don’t necessary need to add it. Still I don’t think that these ships follow the rules of the sea or blow they horn if they want to pass by.

Add-ons

As an add-on developer I will clearly say that Virtual Sailor gives a lot more opportunities than Ship Simulator simply because you can just add your 3D model straight into the game without asking for permission first or to send it to the game developer himself. Ship Simulator have a lot to learn from Virtual Sailor when it comes to add-ons. There is no doubt that the popularity of Ship Simulator will grow the day this game supports add-ons made by individual developers, teams or even commercial companies.

Missions

For Virtual Sailor you need to make your own missions or scenes where you are going to perform something, like towing another ship from A to B. You will also have to add mission objects (which you may have to design yourself in a 3D application) or look for add-ons which you can use for your mission. You will also have to learn how to place 3D objects into a scenario and even how to get them into Virtual Sailor.
In Ship Simulator you have sets of mission objects and you can set their behavior etc.  But you cannot customize them like changing the shape, the size or customize them in any way.
Scenery developers have these possibilities when it comes to Virtual Sailor:

1.   He can add sea marks, light houses or any other objects made for navigation at any place in the scenario
2.   He can make the landscape out of real global terrain data or even make a 3D terrain just for one mission
3.   He can make the traffic ships used in the mission and set their behavior, location, route etc.
4.   He can add harbors, quays or other facilities like buildings, cities etc

So it’s possible to make a mission for Virtual Sailor but it may end up like a major project if you are going to customize and design it all.

Free roaming

In Ship Simulator you have just a couple of scenes which you can explore. In Virtual Sailor you can download scenes made by add-on developers and explore them. But of course these scenes can be very detailed and realistic but also very weak and simple. I’m sure that the scenes you find for Ship Simulator is a lot better.

The ships and boats

For Virtual Sailor you can find all kinds of ships and boats. They are usually developed by add-on developers where he is the one that decide the look of the ship, details and how the graphics is going to be. So it’s more an individual taste if you like the boat in a detailed version or in a very simple version, intense graphics or simple graphics.
For Virtual Sailor I think you will find more simple boats than large boats. The reason is that small boats can be much easier to design than a large detailed ship which may take up to one year just to complete for the one that design it. It all depends on who the add-on developer is and how much work he adds into it.

Simulation

Simulation is an important subject when it comes to both games. In Virtual Sailor you will have a greater possibility to setup and customize a simulation than in Ship Simulator. You can also adjust the behavior of the ship in water and simulate all kinds of weather.
For both games there is one thing that they both are missing and that is the subject that is called ship stability.
In Virtual Sailor you cannot load cargo or add weights that will have an influence on the stability of the ship. You can load cargo in Ship Simulator but do you see the effect of it? I don’t think you will. I’m now going to list up a couple of lines which is related to ship stability. I’m sitting with one book called “Ship Stability – Mate/Masters” by Seamanship International.

-   Tonnes per centimeter immersion (TPC)
-   Load lines (heard about the Plimsoll mark?)
-   Center of gravity and buoyancy
-   Single weight problems (what will happen if you place a bunch of containers at the front of the ship?)
-   Transverse statical stability
-   Neutral, stable, unstable conditions
-   Free surface effect
-   GZ curves
-   List
-   Trim
-   Suspended weights
-   Hydrostatic data
-   Bilging
-   Wind heeling, ice and rolling

Maneuvering a ship

Common for both games is that it’s really simple to maneuver a ship especially on open sea.  The command bridges are very simple and the controls and panels are simplified versions of what they would really be like in the real world.  An ARPA radar system is not only a screen, it’s a lot more really. You got several options you can use to make sure that your ship has a safe course. On a huge command bridge you may find instruments/control panels like:

-   Steering system
-   Rudder control
-   Throttle control
-   Propulsion control
-   Engine telegraph
-   Thruster control
-   Azimuth control
-   Combinator control
-   Hydraulic winch control
-   Anchor control
-   RPM, start and air indicators
-   Economy indicator/trim control
-   Gyro/steering gear control
-   Watch responsibility/engine control
-   Control for navigation lights
-   Control for signal lights
-   Control for deck lights
-   Searchlight control
-   Sound signals (and there are many of them)
-   DGPS
-   Loran C
-   NavTex
-   Echo sounder
-   Doppler Log
-   Log/distance/time
-   VHF
-   VHF DSC
-   MF/HF
-   Engine alarms
-   Fire indicator
-   Overhead console
-   Engine power indicator
(…and that’s probably not all of them)


Both games have some of these in the list above but in a very simplified version. You don’t have to read manuals for using them really and you will understand very fast how to use these. And the other things is if they will help you or if they will work at all or are they only static instruments that you cannot adjust? I think the simulation will become more real when the instrument panels are getting more advanced.
If these games get closer to the real life and they get more challenging then the popularity will grow with them. Learning can be fun. Just look at the MS Flight Simulator where some players end up like real pilots because the simulation was so real and challenging and they wanted to explore and learn to fly a B737-400 and ended up like real pilots because the game inspired them.
I think that Ship Simulator inspire some people to become real captains someday if this game continue to build up on reality related to the job  each sailor live trough every day. Which game is closest to reality is hard to say, but both games have a lot of stuff that is yet not included. For a simulation game you buy it to explore and learn unlike other games where you buy it to kill terrorists in Iraq (which only gives you action… bang bang!).

None of these games are close to the education that you have to go trough to become an officer onboard a ship today. In this game you learn how to steer a ship and use simple navigation and to complete missions, but you do not learn how to calculate the stability of a container vessel before you leave the port, or to adjust the radar screen, or to use the SMCP when you communicate with others trough VHF.
Compare graphics isn’t usually the first thing to do when you compare two computer games which claim to be “simulators”. The simulation is as said before very simple, but not close to a real simulator for educational purpose. Anyway it’s a good idea to pay the price for these games since they will offer us more interesting stuff in the future and hopefully give us a lot of fun which you probably would have to spend years on getting in the real world (a license to maneuver a 59 925 GT passenger ship like Pride of Hull for example).

Some kind of review by JHB ;D

« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 12:59:25 by JHB »
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Shipaddict

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2007, 13:23:55 »

Longest post in history more like! :D
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Captain Kool

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2007, 23:29:22 »

Do you want to see a long post? Lobman? I think, his post went for over 1500 words! It was a post about a 'Port Tycoon'
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mporter

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2007, 01:16:22 »

I agree entirely with JHB, and his (admittedly but necessarily long) post sets out quite clearly the differences between the two.  Since I am more interested in realistic vessel movement than realistic graphics, I have moved to VS, but that is a personal opinion.  YMMV

Cheers,
Michael
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sniperonthehill

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 07:12:06 »

Quote removed (total repeat of JHB' post http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2238.msg26994.html#msg26994). If nessesary you can read JHB's fine post by scrolling up a bit...  ;) - groennegaard

Thanks JHB, I never realised how different the two were! I dont care how long posts are aslong as they have good information about the topic. This ones bang on  ;D
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 08:15:51 by groennegaard »
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Stuart2007

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 12:13:37 »

If you look at the rail sim industry you have msts which is quite basic and then trainz* which seems to have more functionality in it.

Put this way, I can see ship sim over time addidng the features of VS, but I'm not convinced that VS will ever catch shipsim on graphics. Before any VS people start on me, I'm not knocking it and I think it has some good points, which would be nice to see in ship sim one day.

<irritated>*Can anyone tell me what the fascination is with deliberate mis-spelling. Would it have hurt them to spell trainz as trains?</irritated>

Stu
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shipfan55

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2007, 02:32:06 »

Just say it,VS and SS are different. :)
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Stuart2007

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2007, 18:49:28 »

Just say it,VS and SS are different. :)
Ok. Thanks for that piece of enlightenment. :s

Stu
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Ship Sim

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2007, 21:00:26 »

Only problem with VS is you can turn a 500ft ship the same way you can a 16ft boat. ;)
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Shipaddict

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2007, 21:48:03 »

I feel that SS has more benefits and is generally more realistic. like shipsim sais the ships turn to easy. I don't like VS much but that's my humble opinion ::)
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Stuart2007

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2007, 23:34:40 »

Only problem with VS is you can turn a 500ft ship the same way you can a 16ft boat. ;)

Says it all really. Too keen filling it with loads of features but none of them really quite work...

Stu
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Ship Sim

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 02:56:09 »

Also the ship motions in waves are fake as U know what. A giant ship acts like a boat. ;)
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Stuart2007

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 23:37:37 »

Also the ship motions in waves are fake as U know what. A giant ship acts like a boat. ;)

What precisely do you expect a giant ship to act like :o ? A pogo stick? :P

Stu
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Ship Sim

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Re: which is better ship sim 2008 or virtual sailer 7.0
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2007, 00:02:37 »

What precisely do you expect a giant ship to act like :o ? A pogo stick? :P

Stu

Kind of like if you turn the waves on 55 feet the ships fly outt the other side and they want to stay above the water. Like the whole middle of the will  be out of the water. ;) But on the other hand it has sub marines. :) ;)
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