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Author Topic: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.  (Read 20300 times)

UTSIRA

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Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« on: November 02, 2010, 21:43:26 »

My friend asked if this was a sim or a game, while lining up the Pride of Rotterdam RoRo ferry on linkspan 9 Dover UK., The one P&O get to use most of the time..( Only for some reason there was no linkspan 9 as such but there were two marked number 8 ). Cast off and out to sea, he got as far as the outer breakwater before I replied ‘If it’s a game get down on your hands and knees and rejoice, that Dover and Calais are on the same map. If it’s a sim then stay there and start preying …….’  I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubbles but the average 12 year old Naval Cadet knows more about maritime practice then what is going on here, for our beautiful ship is nowhere near SOLAS compliant. It’s the reason why there are no crew, mostly because no crew would sign up to work on a ship run like this…. Even ‘Sim’s ‘ are not that stupid.

Rewind ……… Lets look for the sea door indicator panel, before we cast off, so we can close the water tight doors / bulkhead doors ……… I couldn’t find any to close mostly because there were no water tight sea doors / bulkhead doors to close, no stern ramps to lift, no warning alarms, no bow visor to shut. That there were no door indicator lights, no ballast function to trim the ferry, no fuel gauge, no fuel supply, just no fuel, a ferry this size would have multiple fuel tanks and probably a mixture of oil and diesel as well as bunker fuel. There would be an engine control room full of gauges and switches and a main switch that allows the ship to be controlled from the bridge or from that control room and the ships engineers would monitor important things like fuel pumps, oil leaks, exhaust gas temperatures and be able to start and stop engines, deploy stabilizers and check for engine faults etc, etc .

And then there is the routine stuff of life on most ships like getting the crew to practice fire or lifeboat drills and emergency helicopter landings, checking the hull / bilge for cracks, help load and unload the vehicles and maintain a safe load spread, sign off the cargo / passenger manifest, secure clearance from customs / immigration / port heath authority and anyone else who might require some kind of permission. Remove waste and grey water, dirty laundry and replace with clean goods. Also restock the galleys with food and the duty free shop with goods and clean the ship. Most of that list is done for real but I guess it would be a very abstract in a simulator especially the day to day crew tasks but what can be simulated and what is so obvious is that I was on a ship that was effectively going to sea with no ship to shore or ship-to-ship communication, that I wouldn’t be able to inform Calais of my ETA and Calais wouldn’t be able to tell me if they had closed their port. ( For strikes, weather or security reasons ) I was now entering into the busies shipping lanes in the world and I couldn’t contact Dover Coast Guard to tell them, I couldn’t contact Dover Port to say that I was actually leaving and I couldn’t contact the company to inform them that yes today we did have an on time departure. I’m sure someone would want to know where their ships are at any given time, company agent, Government official or anyone  …………. And I couldn’t contact my deck officer on the two way radio to check if the stern lines had been cast-off before I ordered the ship to sea ……. Oh, I forgot he never signed on ..Yeak ! Even I from the comfort of my own computer can check where ships are for real by going to http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ . Go check the number of ships parked outside Rotterdam and just how many transit the Dover Straits / Pas de Calais its amazing……….. Now imagine .. No communication … ???

Equally the sim passengers on board the vessel the same ones that I was supposedly in charge of as the Captain of the ship had somehow all blindly followed each other on board and quite happily parked their vehicles,( How many are on board is just a mystery ) then I presume that they all make their way top sides totally unaided with out any messages, greetings or announcements either in French or English and all were equally happy to go off to sea with out even a rudimentary safety message. I’m sure the Health and Safety Department at the EU headquarters in Brussels would be overjoyed.

 Am I expecting to much …?? I didn’t check to see about navigation, charts, buoys, tides, wind speeds etc, etc I’m guessing that they aren’t there…. I’m guessing when the average truck sim has more working gauges and switches then this; I didn’t think there was any need to.

Having said all of the above I would actually be overjoyed to buy this package as a ‘ Game ‘ I would be very disappointed if I was buying it as a simulation.

Now where’s that helmsman wander off to ….

My friend still thinks he’s operating a sim as in ‘ As Real As It Gets ‘. That is why I am posting these words, as I know he reads this forum.  As for me I have just installed ship sim 2008 mostly because there is no way that my computer could power ‘Extremes’ and yes I am happy with what I have got. I will say that the ships are graphically modelled to a good standard and that the scenery is way, way better then comparable games and the whole thing is very passable to the average RoRo passenger or person in the computer store, in their guess of how things work on these ships.  In that sense V-Step have done a good job and should be congratulated, after all my friend is convinced. Unfortunately to anyone who knows anything about ships, unless one is prepared to overlook all of the above and more then this game isn’t going to fore fill many expectations………
The makers should probably drop the word simulator from the title and add extremely powerful computer required in bigger then big letters starting with Warning …………….. and then a list on their website as to what not to expect.

 SOLACE Compliant …   Sorry it is not. ………..Calling this a Ship Simulator is being a bit disingenuous .. It is loosely sort of simulating a basic ship / ferry package where by ones imagination has to fill in the gaps and it will work fine as long as ones expectations do not run riot ( having to stream it from a Cd is another issue as there is no mention of this when the CD is purchased .. tut. ). Calling it a credible game .. Yes it’s probably fair to say that it is. Could it be used as a commercial or naval training tool… Well look at it like this, you would put a big smile on the recruiting officers face and his staff would be falling over themselves laughing in the back office if you told them that you actually trained up using this programme and they would probably point to the park rowing pool as an alternative occupation. On the other hand it’s the closes that I will ever get to being a captain of a RoRo ferry. Its kind of Catch 22. Its probably the best product on the market only it falls way to short of being a simulation.   

For anyone who is interested in what SOLAS is follow link below.
( http://www.imo.org/conventions/contents.asp?topic_id=257&doc_id=647 )

Advice : Get an extremely powerful computer and rain in the expectations.
Footnote: The POR probably wouldn’t fit the Dover linkspans and the cars would be stuck on the mid vehicle deck as Dover has no side loading car ramps and the foot passengers would have to leave via the tail ramp in Greek island style as Dover doesn’t have any side gangways either   â€¦â€¦â€¦..

Conclusion: I hope that V-Step push on with the project and I do wish them well in that regard. Adding mission, scenery and ship programme editors would help enormously to create a longer lasting community and extended the product. At least a repaint programme to repaint some generic AI ships, as there’s nothing worse then entering a harbour only to find the same vessel that you are piloting also arriving and departing. What’s the chance of that happening for real and besides isn’t there a maritime law that no two ships can be registered with the same name at the same time, something to do with insurance. Perhaps there should be layers of realism so that the customer can choose which best suits their requirements. Lets face it some people have more free time then others, ramping up a sim to as real as it gets can also eat up a lot of time on a single mission, but the customer should at least have that choice and that way perhaps the sim / game would then for fill more peoples requirements.  As for me I will just have to wait until I obtain a computer that can actually move this power hungry monster. ………Who knows what will evolve in the meantime. So I return to a newly installed Ship Sim 2008 and wait 5 years ……… Laters then  .. 

Oh hello everyone  :thumbs:
PS: and to my mate, if your reading this. Just remember that you are going to need more then this to become a real RoRo ferry captain .. :doh:
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Matthew Brown

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 22:29:38 »

I can understand your point, but that's definitely asking far too much of the game  :doh:
The Professional version of the game (NAUTIS) is very advanced but don't think it has even all of those things!
VSTEP as a small company are pushing the limits of their technology and over time it is getting better.
But hey ho, for the moment we will just have to illegally sail the seven seas kicking SOLAS aside  :P.
But for the moment it sure is the most realistic simulation.
Am I right or am I right?
Virtual Sailor doesn't offer the same experience as this game, with the same quality of graphics.
Even though they may have aimed a weeny bit too high in their objectives!
Unfortunately lots of those things may never come into the game, as they even didnt include the bouyage system becuase they wanted people to spend thousands of euros just for the 'real' simulation.
As a fear that big companies would buy the cheaper game version.  ::)

I'm sure your friend will get more experience out of this game rather than playing plastic ships on his bedroom floor  :doh:

Kind Regards

Matthew
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Traddles

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 22:59:33 »

I take it then UTSIRA, that you are a fully qualified seafarer with many years of practical experience. ::)
Just one small point, driving ships round a computer screen is for entertainment and pleasure. The real stuff can ONLY be learnt on a real ship.
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UTSIRA

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 23:27:35 »

I thought it might be something like that so it’s a good job that I left the technical stuff out. .. I did question myself when I said ‘ Was I expecting to much…??’ Only its just that is what a lot of people are actually expecting ……… If that comes as a bit of a shock then you know what can I say. That is what a lot of your customers are actually expecting from this game but to my credit I did also mention ‘ rain in the expectations ‘

 As for my friend he believes that this is all there is to it so I was trying to tell him that there was more, like a lot more only he wouldn’t believe me so I said that I would write something on the forum and then he just might ……….

I am not in any way disparaging the product just pointing out what could actually make it a better product and I think that V-Step have done a credible job .. I did say so and I also said that its probably the best product on the market and it is the closest that most people will get to actually being in charge of a Ro Ro ferry.

I don’t think SOLAS should be totally kicked to one side as it is the core of modern day maritime practice. See its that word ‘ simulator ‘ that is slightly misleading. Only you cannot run modern day ships with out SOLAS …………..

I wouldn’t speak badly about Virtual Sailor as it is a separate product and there is no one to speak up for it on this forum. I would say that the two games have many similarities and both have their good and bad points. More or less both products can do the same thing, only Ship Sim is better on the graphics and scenery side and overall usability but Virtual Sailor has the ship editing programmes.

 I don’t think that any company big or small would use the game version as a training tool as it just wouldn’t be accepted as credible in the maritime industry. SOLAS is a big thing in the maritime world and as you readily kick it to one side then no credible maritime training company big or small would us this. The larger version for sure but not the game version.

 I never said that my friend plays plastic toys on his bedroom floor..just that he might be slightly deluded into what a RoRo ferry Captain actually does ……  but he is also very much a big fan of this game. Well that was until you suggested that he plays with plastic ships on his bedroom floor.. 
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TerryRussell († 2012)

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 23:46:04 »

Angus wins, with four aces.

 :evil:   ;D

Even with its shortcomings, there are quite a few maritime agencies that use this game/simulator (or the 2008 or even the 2006 versions) for training purposes. And quite a good number put their hands in their pockets and purchase the PRO version (Nautis).


There are NO simulators on the market that can model every aspect of every type of ship. All of them concentrate on various aspects of it. Some concentrate on an extremely limited number. "Radar simulator" is one such. There is just a radar screen and the operator learns to handle that and provide information to the person pretending to handle the navigation.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 23:53:13 by The Ghost of Terry »
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UTSIRA

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 00:20:31 »

For sure you can learn the basics on a computer but you have to go to sea to do the real stuff. Computer simulations are used of course they are but I don’t think that many actually compare to real tides and winds or sea state conditions ……… That is why there is years and years of learning and sea experience before one can get to be in charge of any half decent ship.

I’m not in a position to say who buys what and who uses what. May be I am but I am not going to, be that as it may those training companies would have to upgrade to the
 PRO version to retain any credibility. No student is going to wander into any maritime college knowing that the game version is all they have to train on. So what’s the worry about slightly enhancing the game product. If the game product is outstanding then the PRO version, it would follow would be even more so im sure any enhancements could only make the PRO version better and therefore become an even better training programme that these companies would want to buy. I’m sure a lot of British Airways pilots have used Microsoft Flight sim but they wouldn’t use that computer model to pass their final exams on or for advanced training.

For sure every computer game is a matter of balancing what is workable and what is reasonable within the limits of the actual computer programme to what is affordable and to what is likely to sell.
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sydmichel

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 07:11:53 »

SOLAS...Okay, I give up.  What is SOLAS? Never heard of it.  Is it some sort of computer virus that will prevent me having fun driving ships and completing missions around the world?

It might  be nice if acronyms are defined before use so that idiots like me could understand what people are on about, especially if they are used in the post heading.  I know there was a link near the end of your post to some sort of reference, but by then my eyes had started to glaze over.
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We're all buddies in boats

sadsid († 2016)

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 07:16:23 »

International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS)

hope that helps
                              Eric
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Vige

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 10:28:28 »

Did the box for the game when you bought it, say "SOLAS compliant"?

If not, I can't see why you couldn't have changed your angle from "I'm incredibly dissapointed" to "could you consider these changes to make it SOLAS compliant" and then list them.

That would've been way more productive  ;D



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mvsmith

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 11:40:39 »

That’s a very good point Vige.
The use of the word “simulator” in the title of a game, or on the box, does not imply anything about the accuracy, realism, or degree of details. It is, by itself, a vague term for something that mimics, to some degree, the behavior of some object or system.
For that reason, the argument implied in the topic title is silly.
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Traddles

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 11:54:30 »

http://www.vstep.nl/news/20101026/vstep_delivers_nautis_software_for_270degree_class_a_simulator

This is an example of what Vstep produce for the professional market. That is a very nice view of Buenos Aires harbour there, very realistic I think. Unless I am sadly mistaken SS Extremes is marketed as a PC game, not a professional simulator. There is somewhat of a difference, both in price AND content. ::)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 17:59:37 by Traddles »
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Sunseekeringo

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 12:47:38 »

SOLAS compliant? Do you expect a fully detailled simulator for that price? I would say the life at say on SSE is absolutely SOLAS compliant because you can every time switch the computer off or restart the mission and everyone is healthy again...hey, that´s cool, I wish the was also possible on the Titanic accident or the tanker Erika accident...

I also agree that there could be some things more realistic or added. As I flew many years the flight simulator and saw the developments within the years there I compare it a bit to that. And even the flight simulator also startet as a realy simple game, 20 years ago there were not the technically possibilities to make a better game. But today they are there. So some things could really be made more realistic regardless if it is a game or a simulator. In a game for more fun and more settings and in a simulation for the realistic. At the moment I think the SSE it is more neither a game or a simulator than both of it.

I fortunately first tested the SSE before I bought it and knew what I had to expect. Otherwise I also could have been a bit disappointed. But I bought it and I am really happy with it becaues it is the only sim/game for that reasonable price (oh I would love it to have a real VSTEP simulator in my cellar!!!!)

best regards
Ingo
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Tinchu

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 20:26:58 »

The problem with this simulator, Utsira, is not if we have all those things you mention in your extensive post. I`m basically agree with you. Maybe we must admit it would be a huge work along years...

The problem is what kind of development want`s VStep for this simulator. It passed five years since the first edition and the comments in the software magazines examining this simulator, repeat the same word: "lifeless". "A simple clinic exercise to go from point A to point B".

We can understand the physics and dynamics not be like a professional simulator of thousands of Euros. A simulations is always a reality simplification. And we have personal computers between 1000 and 1500 Euros generally.

However, it would be time to introduce some other aspects related with the ships and the ports. There's no rules in the ports in the simulator. Acoustic signals, lighting signals, division traffic lines.¡¡¡ For God blessed, there's no lighthouses in the simulator!!!; the most popular and known maritime facility. This simulator need some of the strategy:" Captain, you must arrive on time to catch the favorable tide. You need put your ship on adequate draft. Do you think unballast on your trip or in your anchorage. It would be interesting this simulator had a time compression to do that; very typical performance in this kind of software.  Is only a little supposition among the many of them.  All of us, I think we are dreaming awake.

Well friends I thik I`m embroiling myself. Greeting
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UTSIRA

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 02:50:27 »

A Reply to Tinchu

Hello Friend

I only came on this forum to point out to a somewhat misguided friend that there was more, a lot more to being in charge of a Ro Ro ferry then what is currently found with in Extremes. I apologise if it was slightly tongue in cheek in places but it was what was required trust me he really needed to get his feet back on the ground and people have thanked me at this end.

I am new to all this and I don’t normally sign onto forums mostly because I do not have that much spare time. Im not really on here to lead a major charge into trying to get more content into the whole thing it is very evident that only V –Step will provide what they actually want to provide. That is fine by me it is after all their game. I sign into it or I buy it if I think it is good enough. Its an open question if I purchase any further product all depending upon its content. ( I don’t think that I would want to buy into a stream unknowingly ) I doubt that anything that I wrote about SOLAS will actually be introduced having said that, Yes I agree with you that it would be a huge work to place all or some of what I wrote into the game.

 I do think that V- Step had missed a few simple tricks in not providing extra switches to flick, buttons to press, that make the required sound and activate something for that added sense of realism and interaction. I would have thought that there would have been a greater interaction with port authorities built into the whole thing. There is much to be gained by putting the human element into any sim / game. What I also noticed with the rest of the game is how little any of it related to the real commercial world. All those freighters, cargo and container ships are run as on time operations only in this game there doesn’t appear to be anything to indicate if a ship can stay in harbour one hour or five years. Well it is one direction to go. Yes I totally understand a company not wanting to produce an excellent package that can be purchased for a cheaper price and used to do basic training. Only I am sure adding things like fuel and ballast systems and factor in some reason to gain on time arrivals and departures would enhance the game without damaging the Pro version. In the real world captains get it in the neck ( told off by the company ) if they are late without having a good enough reason that is why ships are driven through storms. Its not what many captains would elect to do, only commercial pressure demands that they have to.

But like I said perhaps there should be levels of realism ……. Talking of which …. Lighthouses .. I never even noticed .. Such a basic thing . I haven’t been running the game that often so I am sure there are loads more things missing. I did notice that there are no building lights at night in the New York harbour.  Manhattan the most lit up area in the world sits as a dark zone on my computer. It’s also a shame that there is no Staten Island Ferry terminal or Staten Island Ferry’s surely the centrepiece of any activity at Battery Park, that and the small ferry that takes passengers to visit the Statute of Liberty.

I am sure that you could add a list as long as my own as to what is missing, Traffic Flow Control, harbour management, speeds etc, etc and in a way it would be interesting to see what you come up with but I don’t think it will make much difference to the current game. I don’t know what to really think. I know that in the real world P&O can use up to 7 car ferries on the Dover – Calais route and each one makes 5 cross Channel return journeys over a 24 hour period I’m not to sure what Sea France does but they probably have a similar amount of tonnage dashing back and forth. Only I no longer expect this game to ever come close to achieving that I guess that I am now passive about the whole thing as people on here have already mentioned. This is a game and not a simulator and it is likely to remain that way for many years to come. I now see it and relate to it as a game and not a simulation.

I wish you and everyone on here well and I wish V – Step every success with both this product and the Pro version and any future products.
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KiwiSailor

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 04:22:55 »

SOLAS compliant? Do you expect a fully detailled simulator for that price?


I believe that this is possible. You only have to look at Microsoft's Fight Sim X. It is a full Simulator to the point where it is used by Airlines and approved by Aviation Authorities as a base for flight training. I think it is even cheaper than Ship sim extremes.
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UTSIRA

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 18:55:20 »

Reply to KiwiSailor

 Hello Mate.

I also think that it is possible to put together a fully working and comprehensible maritime / ship simulation with in a basic PC package for roughly the same sales price as Microsoft’s Flight sim programmes.

Only this is not going to be that computer game / model and I doubt that it will ever get close to meeting the expectations of the many, many people out there who would like to see a half decent comprehensible ship simulator.

Its quite obvious in reading back a few pages in this forum that the makers have a set agenda and that the moderators fall into line on the company policy. This is Ok it is their game and it is the line that they choose to follow. It is almost as if they are living in fear of their own product. I already know that it is pure nonsense about using this PC game as a training tool, the game is so limited in scope that beyond the basics it would rapidly become useless after a few hours in any professional maritime college.

Besides the last ship I was on I spent more time operating the ships systems on a computer screen then actually looking out of the window even the ships course was operated via the computer system once out to sea and we didn’t need a helmsman until we picked up a pilot at our destination port. Oh for sure we had look outs using the old Mk 1 eyeball, only like some aspects of this game boredom was their biggest chore, mostly because we had rapid response radar that would monitor every ship within a 50 mile radius big or small and automatically track any collision courses there was also a very expensive real time GPS system and we knew exactly where we were to with in 50 meters night and day any where in the world. All the cargo was constantly monitored via a different computer and the computer even guided the container crane to pick up the required sea containers automatically without the need for a crane operator. I could go on but you get the point.

Ship sim extremes cannot do any of that and it probably never will. It is a very basic package that masquerades as something more. It covers the requirements of the average shop / store computer gaming buying public as to what they probably guess is going on but as with most guesses they are so wide of the mark it is funny.

 Also it says on the tin; sail ships around the world. Only Norway and Denmark are not even on the map two great nations with very strong nautical roots and proud sea traditions ( I know for sure that a certain Danish company moves a huge number of sea containers across the world on a daily basis) . So I wouldn’t hold out to much to see your native New Zealand in this game series for quite awhile yet.

The problem for this game is that there aren’t any editing programmes or construction programmes with tutorials so that third party ships and scenery could be added or scenery modified. Ok for sure V – Step is running a construction competition. Only that is like supporting a football team. One hopes that the new content will meet with the required needs, only as most fans know with any football team you will never get a say as to who picks the team or how it operates…. But as I said it is their game we are mere operators we can choose to operate or watch TV. From reading many of the back pages on this forum I suspect that a lot of former customers are actually watching TV or have simply moved on to some other past time like Bus sim or Truck sim or they take out their frustrations by doing some special forces missions etc, etc  Unlike most … I have a third option.. I can actually go off and do this for real …………  The reason why I haven’t got a powerful PC is that I was never at home to use it. The reason why I looked at the package is that I wanted to see what it was like to be on the bridge of a big RoRo ferry .. Just curious I guess ……….

I would say that this is still a good quality ship game and probably the best that is out there at this moment in time ( That’s if you can get it to work ) Only one has to bear in mind that its operable in a limited fashion with very limited controls, workable opportunities or human inter actions and you are probably looking at a 1980’s technology spec for the ship operating system, with a 1940’s radar and a 18th Century communications system . ( Morse code is more advanced then any communications system found with in the game and no one uses Morse code any more that’s how old the games communication system is ……….. )

Anyways, good luck in trying to get anything extra installed.

Oh and V- Step thank you for the Jumbo Javelin it is a beautiful model.
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KiwiSailor

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 20:05:36 »

Utsira.

I totally agree with you.  I have worked on 60m plus Fishing vessels around New Zealand and have had the pleasure in going to the Antarctic fishing as well. I have been to Norway and completed a delivery Voyage of a New Trawler from Kristensund to Nelson New Zealand over a 43 day voyage. I guess I would have the same qualifications as an advanced Able Seaman. I have work for Maritime training schools as a tutor and assessor and still currently do some training. I was thinking this game would be just like Flight Sim X and be a simulation so I could get my students to learn from it. I was thinking rules of the road, buoys and beacons, and basic maneuvering would be good subjects to teach. Lets hope that this game can over time be upgraded to Sim status with little quirks that vessels have being added.

Sail safe.
Nick.
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thyro

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 11:46:24 »

So where I can buy NAUTIS for my PC? and does the bridge comes included on the price? btw need to know its size of the bridge to see if it can fit in my living room ;)
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Vige

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 13:46:56 »

I find it funny that both of you refer to FSX as a flightsim, with it's crappy physics and damage model, and laughable weather modelling. Even IL-2 Sturmovik in it's earliest forms was more pure than FSX.

If you're really that unhappy with SSE, take it back to where you bought it from and exchange or ask for a refund.

Never for a moment did I expect that this game/sim/whatever you want to call it be so rich in detail that I would be aghast with awe. You pay 40-50 euro for a game like this and expect it to be SOLAS compliant? That's unrealistic.  

And a "half decent comprehensible ship simulator"? How many half decent comprehensible ship simulators are out there mate? Did it ever occur to you that development is equal to time + resources + money and not to mention a captive audience? How many people buy ship sims? This genre is a niche product, like FSX but with a lesser following. I do think over time that VSTEP will make this product designed for the non-trained merchant sailor palatable, but others will never be happy with it. C'est la vie...  

I really think your expections are at the moment beyond what SSE can provide you Ultsira. I'm no expert but I think you need to look at a product that's going to match your training - if you can pay for it  ;)  

Better still - form a software development company, build a team of coders and make it happen  :thumbs:  
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 13:49:30 by Vige »
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mvsmith

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 14:16:42 »

Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty
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Traddles

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  • Posts: 5934
Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 15:02:23 »

I have a strong feeling that many folks have got the wrong idea of what Ship Simulator is all about. Perhaps if it were named "Ship Handling Simulator" the concept would be more understandable. It matters little how much fancy modern equipment there is on the bridge of a modern vessel, when it comes down to handling the vessel it is down to old fashioned seamanship and hard learned experience. The very extensive equipment provided on a ship has very little, if anything, to do with coming alongside a berth, physically avoiding collisions, and generally manoeuvring without damage to the vessel. Even an ultra modern Cruise liner which has azipod drives and bow thrusters still relies on her masters' ship handling ability to enter and berth without the use of tugs. A classic example of this could be seen when Queen Mary 2 entered the river Mersey recently. Whilst there were tugs standing by, in case of need, the ship made a 1800 turn and laid alongside the floating pier without them. Seamanship of first class by the pilot and master of the ship, not down to fancy equipment at all.
I would describe that sort of thing as what Marty calls intelligent life. ::)
Regards,
Angus.
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JHB

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  • Posts: 1457
Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 15:54:50 »

Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty

:D :D
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JHB

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 1457
Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 15:56:12 »

I have a strong feeling that many folks have got the wrong idea of what Ship Simulator is all about. Perhaps if it were named "Ship Handling Simulator" the concept would be more understandable. It matters little how much fancy modern equipment there is on the bridge of a modern vessel, when it comes down to handling the vessel it is down to old fashioned seamanship and hard learned experience. The very extensive equipment provided on a ship has very little, if anything, to do with coming alongside a berth, physically avoiding collisions, and generally manoeuvring without damage to the vessel. Even an ultra modern Cruise liner which has azipod drives and bow thrusters still relies on her masters' ship handling ability to enter and berth without the use of tugs. A classic example of this could be seen when Queen Mary 2 entered the river Mersey recently. Whilst there were tugs standing by, in case of need, the ship made a 1800 turn and laid alongside the floating pier without them. Seamanship of first class by the pilot and master of the ship, not down to fancy equipment at all.
I would describe that sort of thing as what Marty calls intelligent life. ::)
Regards,
Angus.

Nah, not "Ship Handling Simulator. A better title would be "Ships for Kids" ::) :P ;)
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Traddles

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 17:12:36 »

Suit yourself. :-*
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KiwiSailor

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Re: Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant.
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2010, 08:11:33 »

I find it funny that both of you refer to FSX as a flightsim, with it's crappy physics and damage model, and laughable weather modelling. Even IL-2 Sturmovik in it's earliest forms was more pure than FSX.

If you're really that unhappy with SSE, take it back to where you bought it from and exchange or ask for a refund.
I understand what you are saying here. Yes FSX was a bit of dog when it came out. I have said in another post that Ship sim has the potential to be a great simulator with a lot more work. I can see the developer adding seas and ports and ships to the sim as they go and charging a suitable fee, which will make this a better product. As I have said in another post I have spent about $1000 upgrading FSX with new Aircraft with better flight modelling and also a new weather programme, which in my Flying experience is very realistic. I work for one of the worlds leading airlines and several of my pilot friends have used my simulator and say it is pretty true to life.  I can not take Ship sim back for a refund as it was downloaded from the site.  I am willing to wait until the patches come out to see where the sim goes. Who knows other companies may invest in this product and create addons as well.

Cheers.
 8)
 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:14:15 by KiwiSailor »
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