Please add hardware check before activating license

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[hauke]

Dear coders,

I just purchased and installed SSE on my Thinkpad P60 (Intel T2600 Dual Core, 2.16 GHz, 3GB of RAM, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, Windows 7). Though this is undoublty not the most recent hardware, SS2008 1.4.2 ran fine (except from annoying unpredictable crashes) even using more demanding graphical settings. SSE, however, only creates some abstract art images (some lines and triangles) while the menu options are coming up slow as ... well .. hell. When I start a mission (which takes about 3 minutes to do so), I can see the controls after another minute, but the rest of the screen still is some abstract art. Of course, I installed the most current updates for both SSE and Windows 7.

Well, after going through some posts in this forum I found out that my good ol' mobility radeon X1400 is not even listed here

  http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,21444.0.html

and is obvously far away from scoring 6000 points which are mentioned as minimum requirement.

You will undoubtly understand that loosing 40 euros does not brighten my day. To avoid future (possible) customers from making the same unsatisfying experience, maybe you could provide a downloadable tool that checks the hardware-requirements _before_ one decides to finally purchase the software.

Regards,

Hauke

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[mvsmith]

Demo.

[Captain Spencer]

Hi Hauke,

What my colleague is trying to say is that there is a demo which uses the same settings as the full game which should allow you to see if the game will run no your system.

You must also understand that most onboard graphics cards (and especially laptop graphics adapters) will not play many intensive 3d games and not just SSE.

I'm sorry your laptop does not run SSE, but the demo is now available which would in turn act as a program to test your hardware

Regards,
Adam

[hauke]

Hi mvsmith, hi Adam,

A demo's main goal is to create interest in the product, demonstrating what the software is capable of (that's why it's called 'demo', right?). I already knew that I liked the idea of ship simulating and "played" SS2008 before, so there was no need to convince me to actually _want_ SSE. Honestly, why should I want to download a 600MB demo version of a software from which I already knew I wanted it?

Additionally, the demo does not tell me at all, whether my current problem is a result of inappropriate hardware or if it's caused by one of the (too) many bugs that SSE comes with, which is why so many users are waiting for the next update.

I grudgingly have to accept the fact that I should have known better after my SS2008 experience. But you (better: VStep in general) could also think about providing a small tool that allows users to simply check if their hardware is sufficient to run SSE at all, especially when you (VStep) use paying customers as beta testers. That would just be fair.

To make it clear: I'm not asking for a refund (though I would appreciate it ...). I'm instead telling you what happened to me and what I think could help avoiding others to make the same annoying experience. If you understand the demo version as a hardware test, then _please_ add a big red warning sign to the shopping cart _before_ somebody buys the software.

Regards,

Hauke

p.s.: @Adam: Thanx for the translation of mvsmith's post. Helped me to calm down a little...

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[Captain Spencer]

Hi Hauke,

I can understand your frustration as you were looking forward to playing the game only to be dissapointed.

However, VSTEP published the minimum system requirements for the game to run on a system, which are there to help people determine if their computer can play the game. This of course should be checked before buying any game, to avoid such dissapointment in the future.

I do sympathise with you and others in a similar situation, and I do agree that a tool to check the users system requirements would be a good idea. There is a problem though...

Tools like that would most likely take a long time to develop, and even if such a tool was created it would probably not provide an accurate result, which would spark even more frustration as customers could then aruge that VSTEP is wrong in publishing a tool that promised them to be able to run the game, yet they were not able to.

As I said, I do understand your situation as I am unable to play the game well enough to enjoy it, but we shall see what the patch can do for people

Regards,
Adam

[mvsmith]

Hi  hauke,

The demo is the tool that you requested for checking the ability of your system to handle the simulator. It is, In fact, an abridged version of the actual simulator.
 
You say that you have run SS 2008 on your system, yet you have only recently joined this forum, and not as a 2008 registered user.
There has been much information here on the actual requirements, and many examples of systems that are below minimum requirements. Had you done some reading on this forum, you might have saved some money.

Regards,
Marty

[markoz]

On the SSE home page there is a section that says System requirements.

Are they the minimum OR recommended system requirements? If they are the minimum system requirements, then changing the heading to say that they are the minimum system requirements, could help with the choice to buy SSE.

Just a thought.

Mark

[hauke]

Hi @all

@Marty
> The demo is the tool that you requested for checking ...
As I said: Maybe, not every user would expect the demo to be the tool for checking the hardware. Instead, some might think that the demo is the bait to make one buy the software. Second thing is: SS2008 (even the 1.4.2 version) as well as SSE are buggy, so how can I know that the hardware is the problem and not the software (which could perhaps be fixed by patching)? How do I now, if the demo is actually the current version (including the patches) that should work? There are just too many degrees of freedom to make a positive decision.

> You say that you have run SS 2008 on your system, yet you have only recently joined this forum, and not as a 2008 registered user.
I did not see any need to register in the forum, because SS2008 1.4.2 actually ran on my machine. The problems coming from the buggy QuestViewer where already mentioned by a lot of other users, so I did not feel the need to post another comment on that. Additionally, my ShipSim username that I used to get the activiation key (bought a boxed version in a local store) is not "hauke", but some random alphanumeric, since I did not expect to need it later and just wanted the activation key and the update.

@Adam
> Tools like that would most likely take a long time to develop, ...
How about some of the existing 3D-benchmarks?

Please consider inserting some highly visible "check your hardware with the demo before you buy!" sign in the shop system. And Mark's thought about changing "system requirements" to "minimum system requirements" also seems a good idea to me. As I said: It's not so much about _my_ frustration, instead it's about avoiding this situation for other users, which are _your_ (future) customers.

Regards,

Hauke

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[saltydog]

Please consider inserting some highly visible "check your hardware with the demo before you buy!" sign in the shop system.
 

I can't remember ever seeing such a message on a game..

Also, "requirements" are by definition minimum..

[Mad_Fred]

Hi Gents,

Well logically, when there's no additional set of recommended specifications posted anywhere, the only list of specs that is there, would be the minimum system requirements.

The hint is in the word requirements. This is what is required to make the game work.

Why would a developer post ONE set of requirements only, and then make those the recommended ones? If you think logically, you'd realise that the one set, is the minimum requirements set. Anything else makes no sense, sorry.

Between the end user being aware of his/her own hardware and these requirements, and with the demo as the proofing tool if needs be, the 'what do I need to run this game' area is pretty much covered.

As the saying goes, let the buyer beware. It's not like it's uncommon that this is done like it has been. Lots of games I own only have one set of requirements on the box. And I have personally never used a hardware checker for any game. I did use demos for that, cause that's what they are for too, they're not just an interactive advert.

If you base your purchase on 'SS08 ran fine too!' then that's just the wrong way of doing it. And all the info you needed to come to the conclusion that you might not be able to run it, was posted on the main website, all sites where you could buy the game, the forum and on the box itself, for those that come across is in the shops. Just like normal. Additionally, on many occasions on the forum, benchmark scores for comparison were given. Although that is also not a very reliable way of assessing things, all the time. Some people that score over 6000 have problems, some that get a score below it, do not.

Plus, it's not just down to hardware. It's down to software use and pc maintenance and personal use (or abuse) of your system aswell. I guess that's why you don't see many games offer a hardware check. It might just give a false positive.. or negative..  And that's one more thing people then can 'feel tricked' with, perhaps.

Had you really wanted to check beforehand, you would have had plenty of indication that your card wasn't supported, perhaps. But if you don't check it out and find out later that you didn't do your homework and made a purchase you can't run, then it's of course easier to say that the developer fell short in informing you and tricked you somehow.

Alas, that's not what happened. The way the requirements are presented are perfectly normal and it's up to the individual user to make sure his system is adequate.

Regards,
Fred

[saltydog]

Here's an idea: a warning sticker to put on books..

"Warning..!   If you cannot read this sticker, you probably will not be able to read this book ! "   

[hauke]

Hi @all

> "Warning..!   If you cannot read this sticker, you probably will not be able to read this book ! "   
 

Seems I'm fighting a loosing battle here. Still wonder, why a visible warning sign/note in the purchasing process should be such a problem, though... It doesn't hurt and if it helps some of your customers - why not?

Just to make it clear: You mods are doing a fine job here and I do not think it's your or anybode else's fault that I bought SSE without prior testing.

Regards,

Hauke

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[saltydog]

Just pulling your leg hauke..    I'm not patenting the sticker idea just yet, it still has some flaws..

[hauke]

Hi saltydog,

> Just pulling your leg hauke.. Wink
  Didn't know the phrase "pulling your leg" before. Nice one, hope, I remember it.

> I'm not patenting the sticker idea just yet, it still has some flaws.. Wink
Call it features, not flaws - then you're fine .

Seems about time for a new Desktop-PC anyway, so let's get the wishlist ready for Santa.

Regards,

Hauke

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[PoRL]

With a lot of software, there are indeed two sets of system configurations published.This is true for both professional, and "leisure" software.

The first set are the minimum requirements you'd need to get the thing operating with all settings turned to "low".

The second set are the recommended requirements which, in the manufacturers opinion, are those that will give the user an acceptable level of performance from the software. Note that there are rarely maximum requirements that will enable users to get peak performance with all settings maxed out - for FSX (for instance), such a computer hasn't been invented yet!

[Captain Spencer]

Ohh trust me, computers are far more advanced than you could ever imagine

[vin_sun]

Seems about time for a new Desktop-PC anyway, so let's get the wishlist ready for Santa.

Regards,

Hauke

****************************************

Hi Hauke...

That you are now considering a new desktop, I suppose you could checkout a post that I had started (maybe you already have). Its called "Share your PC config"

There are plenty of responses to that thread and you will certainly get a broad idea of the kind of configuration that would suit you in terms of economy and usage (and of course SSE). The spectrum is very interesting and it gives an insight to the kind of machines people from all over the world have. It ranges from those with "SSE basic requirements" rigs, mid range ones and the high performance "beasts".

[Pssst....... maybe you should get Santa to read this post !!!!]

[hauke]

Hi vin_sun,

found the thread, thanks for the hint. I'll go get the link sent to North-Pole immediately ;-)

Regards,

Hauke

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[markoz]

PoRL.

Like you, I find two sets of system specifications, like you mention in your post, on most of the games/software that I own. This was the main reason for me to suggest it might be better to rename it minimum system requirements. It will leave no doubt that if a PC doesn't equal or surpass any of these specifications, it simply can't run the game.

Mark

[TNeves]

PoRL.

Like you, I find two sets of system specifications, like you mention in your post, on most of the games/software that I own. This was the main reason for me to suggest it might be better to rename it minimum system requirements. It will leave no doubt that if a PC doesn't equal or surpass any of these specifications, it simply can't run the game.

Mark

Maybe not. You can run the game with a slower graphic card, so that requirements are not the minimum, but the recommended ones to play the game without too many problems. However, I would recommend a bit more powerful CPU, because slower CPUs can create a bootleneck to high performance graphic cards.

[mvsmith]

On the SSE home page there is a section that says System requirements.

Are they the minimum OR recommended system requirements? If they are the minimum system requirements, then changing the heading to say that they are the minimum system requirements, could help with the choice to buy SSE.

Just a thought.

Mark

When only one set of requirements is given, it is always meant to be the minimum requirements. Otherwise, why post them? “Requirement” means that it is required.
The SSE manual states that they are the minimum, and that no support is available for systems that don’t meet those requirements.
Technically, no system with a CPU speed less than 3 GHz meets the requirement no matter how many cores it has, because SSE apparently does not use more than one core.

[TNeves]

When only one set of requirements is given, it is always meant to be the minimum requirements. Otherwise, why post them? “Requirement” means that it is required.
The SSE manual states that they are the minimum, and that no support is available for systems that don’t meet those requirements.
Technically, no system with a CPU speed less than 3 GHz meets the requirement no matter how many cores it has, because SSE apparently does not use more than one core.

About the last part, I don't agree  . A newer CPU under 3.0GHz e far better than a P4 single core with more GHz. Many things are different, and even CPU cache and architecture makes a lot of difference.

[mvsmith]

I said “Technically” because the CPU speed requirement is stated as 3 GHz. If VSTEP wanted to be stubborn, it would be up to the user to prove that his system was equivalent.
I agree that the requirements as stated are ambiguous, and that more information from VSTEP about the use of multiple cores, etc. would be more useful.
I do maintain, to get back on topic, that the demo is probably the best way to determine what performance to expect. That was one of the stated reasons for getting it released as soon as possible.
I think that anyone who took the trouble to look on the forum before buying SSE would have known if his system was well below the minimum.

[TNeves]

I said “Technically” because the CPU speed requirement is stated as 3 GHz. If VSTEP wanted to be stubborn, it would be up to the user to prove that his system was equivalent.
I agree that the requirements as stated are ambiguous, and that more information from VSTEP about the use of multiple cores, etc. would be more useful.
I do maintain, to get back on topic, that the demo is probably the best way to determine what performance to expect. That was one of the stated reasons for getting it released as soon as possible.
I think that anyone who took the trouble to look on the forum before buying SSE would have known if his system was well below the minimum.

Completely agree with you. People must understand that the Demo uses the same 3D Game engine, so it is the best way to test the performance. In this specific game, we know that stability is not very high, but that doesn't mean that the Demo is not the same as the game.

[markoz]

Technically, no system with a CPU speed less than 3 GHz meets the requirement no matter how many cores it has, because SSE apparently does not use more than one core.

Ok. Thanks for that mvsmith. It's nice to know that "technically" my i7 870 @ 2.93 GHz (it's never been overclocked yet) doesn't meet the "miniumum" requirements for the game and so I shouldn't have bought it. BUT. I did buy it and it performs at great framerates on my system. Go figure.

Mark

NOTE: No matter what you put as the "minimum" system specifications for a game. Many people won't even look at it. They will say "That looks like a great game. I'll buy it!" so they do and it won't work and they'll complain.