Bug Fix List

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[Birder]

Don't worry about getting your money back, because you won't  
The new patch will be sometime in the next weeks, bite it..

In the UK we have a retail law that say "if a product is not fit for purpose you can get your money back", and without doubt this product is not fit for purpose so in the UK we could get our money back.

Also you say "sometime in the next weeks", do you mean sometime next week" or "in the next few weeks"

Could i also ask if thats from Vstep or just a guess?

In the site downloads > Demos it says

Ship Simulator Extremes Demo version
A demo version of Ship Simulator Extremes will be available September 2010

Vstep are certainly not stupid enough to put out a demo with SSE as it is (or are they), if they do, the person who decided that needs to become head of their "Anti-sales Department"

[Aad The Pirate]

I found this one on the German Forum:
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19872.msg281257.html#msg281257

Top pic is from the Bridge view, lower pic is from free walking view.

I could reproduce it on my machine. VERY odd.

[coryt415]

I found this one on the German Forum:
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19872.msg281257.html#msg281257

Top pic is from the Bridge view, lower pic is from free walking view.

I could reproduce it on my machine. VERY odd.

Yes have expirenced it myself..you have better vision from *at the helm* view i think this was already brought up..but better to post and be sure it gets seen 

[Aad The Pirate]

I hate the Coast Guard logo created by Vstep since I am retired from the U.S. Coast Guard

Ahoy jfail,
I don't konw which Authority in the USA is owning the rights of the proper USGC logo, but what I understood from VSTEP-representatives is that those Authorities simple didn't give permission to use that USCG Logo.
So, what kind of Logo would You expect on that Cutter? Something like "Don't Shoot, I'm not a Warship"? 
Kind Regards
Aad the Pirate

[REXXX]

yes I have noticed that to. if you are in helm view you can see everything. but if your go to free walk you can only peripheral vision. if far away

[jfail]

Ahoy jfail,
I don't konw which Authority in the USA is owning the rights of the proper USGC logo, but what I understood from VSTEP-representatives is that those Authorities simple didn't give permission to use that USCG Logo.
So, what kind of Logo would You expect on that Cutter? Something like "Don't Shoot, I'm not a Warship"? 
Kind Regards
Aad the Pirate

No logo is better than the one on the cutter.  I asked Vstep directly and on these forums to let me know who they tried to contact so that I can help.  You are incorrect that authorities did not give permission implying that permission was denied directly to Vstep.  Vstep says they never got an answer.

As for Don't Shoot I am not a warship, I am a Viet Nam combat veteran of the U.S. Coast Guard.  Every one of the major cutters is a "Warship".  The U.S. Coast Guard has fought in every single war the U.S. and it's allies have fought.  Several 83 foot patrol boats of the U.S. Coast Guard saved hundreds of lives at the invasion of Normandy.  Your insinuation that it is not a warship is absurd, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[The Ferry Man]

Hi FM
The pics and comments forwarded to v-step 
                                                                         Eric

OK thanks 

[mvsmith]

On the warship question:
The oceanographic research vessel R/V Argo, on which I did my first expedition with Scripps, was a converted WWII vintage USN ARS. Her original name was Snatch (Ships of her class were named for things in the boson’s locker).
Even though she was operated by Scripps Institution of Oceanography and wore their livery (the color of fog, as one seaman described it), she was still owned by the Navy and considered a warship requiring permission and clearance from foreign governments to enter their ports.
We went into Colombo, Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) shortly after the Pueblo incident and were often asked if we were a spy ship.

[metman]

I have read all the posts on this thread with ever deepening dread and trepidation!!  For reasons that I won't bore you with I have only just managed to carry out part of one campaign, and failed - my fault not the game by the way - but all the stuff written so far on this and other threads makes me wonder if it is worth carrying on.

I cannot believe that VSTEP didn't give a copy of the final pre-production disk to someone and tell them to go and play it and see what happens.  If they had of done then virtually all the bugs mentioned should have been spotted and fixed before production started.  Issuing a patch on the day of issue does not send out the correct signals for being professional.

On a change of subject - re the USCG logo - I have some sympathy with VSTEP there, as I contacted the USCG on something and didn't even get a reply!!

Regards

Metman

[mvsmith]

Just to set the record straight, for the nth time, there was an extensive Beta testing period. VSTEP had to release when it did for contractual reasons. The intention was always to release one or more patches to correct the known bugs. The STEAM debacle, unfortunately, has contributed to the unhappiness.

The alternative would have been to delay the release for a few more months. At least you have that time to become familiar with the game.
I agree that the missions supplied with the game leave a lot to be desired. After the mission and logic editors are released, I think you will see many excellent missions from the experienced creators who have contributed hundreds of missions to SS 2008.

[Birder]

Just to set the record straight, for the nth time, there was an extensive Beta testing period.

Wow then something is seriously wrong with Vstep or its testers.

If what you say is true, then:

If the beta testers found the faults why did Vstep not bother to fix them before release?

or If the testers missed all the bugs then its rather obvious that Vstep needs to change its beta testers.

Either way, its history that only an urgently needed patch can cure

[mvsmith]

If you were able to read my entire post, you would know that VSTEP was committed to releasing on a certain date promised to the publisher.

If you get your jollies by calling the developers or us Beta testers incompetent, that’s OK with me.
I don’t have a dog in that fight. Most of the people on this forum who put in long hours to try to help you with your problems are not VSTEP employees. We are users who volunteer our time.
We do not really appreciate the way some of you substitute abusive language for reason. In the end, it will only earn you a place on the To Be Ignored list.

[jfail]

Seems to me that Vstep should be a lot more worried about it's customer base finding so many problems and the very negative reviews that have been posted on a lot of other sites.

I guess Vstep decided releasing a defective product on time was better than publicly stating the product was not ready and asking for patience from the users.  I for one would have much preferred a delay announcement for a better product rather than (like many others) feeling very disappointed and ripped off. 

As for the beta testing it is very obvious the testing was poorly conducted.

[wiqvist]

Mvsmith, I think you may have missunderstood Birder, and it should be unfair to put him on a "to be ignore list", and you can't put everyone who feel that they have got a little good product on that list.

What I think Birder say is that somewhere have the comunication been lost. Them who test the game I suppose all have repportet what they have seen was not so good in the game. Vstep could have been honest from the begining and most persons would have understood. I for sure think you understand that most persons expect a product of such hight price to work. But now it seems like Vstep let you moderators take most of the turn of this. Vstep could for example have gone out with an official message, about the bugs, and tell when they should be fixed. Now it seems like it has become your moderators work to take the shit about that the game have so many misses and errors. And I suppose none of you volunteerd to do that.

[mvsmith]

Hi wiqvist,

I agree with most of what you say. I was not singling out Birder, but many Beta testers put out a lot of effort in thorough testing of the various builds over many months. To hear that it was not tested rubs me, and others, the wrong way.
 
Software projects that break new ground, in this case an entirely new sea model and the dynamics to allow ships to operate in that sea, along with an entirely new mission system, are an evolutionary process. They require many cycles of testing and revising. It is not possible to know the release date until it is ready to be released. It was released with bugs because there was no other option.
Any user of SS 2008 must have noticed by now that SSE is not an update of that program; it is an entirely new program.

The Moderators stand ready to give all the help they can to people who simply ask for help and state the problem calmly. To rant about things entirely beyond our control is counterproductive to say the least, and can engender a contempt for those rant, and a disincentive to waste time with them.

Regards,
Marty

[jfail]

I don't think anyone is criticizing the beta testers themselves.  They simply did their job and reported bugs as they were encountered during the testing process.  The problem lies directly with Vstep knowingly releasing a problem with multiple bugs.

I am a beta tester for several major corporations and have been for many years.  I owned my own software business producing software for Amateur Radio Operators (Hams) for many years (I am now retired).  I was very careful to be sure that the product that was released was as bug free as possible. I can guarantee you that Hams can be very, very hard on a software product just as SSE users.

Don't take the criticism personally, you simply did your job as a tester.

[Birder]

MVSmith:

Sorry if i hit a nerve, but i was not saying anything against you, just that if Vstep was aware of all the bugs from testing they should have said something before it went out, after all they took the money and the forum was frantic waiting for the release. They should have said something, "Pre-warned is pre-armed" and that would have given people the choice.

As it is new users such as me who never purchased SS08 or from Vstep deserve something from Vstep explaining "WHY?" the game is so poor. We had no idea that the game would be full of bugs or that SS08 was the same on release.

On the other hand if the beta testers did not find these obvious bugs, then they must have done a poor job.

I get the feeling that moderators feel like they are treading on eggshells when dealing with Vstep and they have to support them even when the "PAYING CUSTOMERS" are right.

I dare bet Vstep were well aware of the problems from the beta testers so its Vstep who are at fault.

So could i ask you as a beta tester did you see the bugs during testing and tell Vstep?

Also being commited to a release date is not down to the buyers, or beta testers, we are not at fault, and i doubt you are.

Vstep should hold their hands up, say sorry and get a patch out that fixes some of the problems very quickly, in days rather than weeks

[Aad The Pirate]

As for Don't Shoot I am not a warship, I am a Viet Nam combat veteran of the U.S. Coast Guard.  Every one of the major cutters is a "Warship".  The U.S. Coast Guard has fought in every single war the U.S. and it's allies have fought.  Several 83 foot patrol boats of the U.S. Coast Guard saved hundreds of lives at the invasion of Normandy.  Your insinuation that it is not a warship is absurd, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Ahoy jfail,
First things first: "If I offended You or anybody else by writing that a USCG-Vessel isn't a warship, I dearly apologize. It was never my intention to offend."
From my point of view a warship is only a warship in times of war. Especial for the Coastguard I share Your idea of lifesavers. After all the word GUARD doesn't specific mean a warrior, right?
I believe that the main function of a GUARD is to protect, and, if neccessary, by means of force.
And last but nt least: Not all Coast Guard Vessels, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are armed with cannons, just look for the list of vessels they sail, like tugs, icebreakers etc.  etc.
Again, If I offended You, I apologize.
Kind Regards
Aad

[wiqvist]

Any user of SS 2008 must have noticed by now that SSE is not an update of that program; it is an entirely new program.

MvSmith/Marty, well, I use SS 2008 and still do. Well, most ships and enviroments are the same in both games, the only new thing which almost work is the graphic. But yes, it is an entirely new program, and the newest thing is that the game have less included than the old game. And that thing which mostly shows that it is a new program is that the program is full of errors and bugs.

Then I wonder, when Vstep released Nautis, was that also full of errors and bugs where only some few things worked? And them who payed for that simulator accepted that it did not work? I suppose that did happen, cause in other case so do they treat their customers different.

[jfail]

Ahoy jfail,
First things first: "If I offended You or anybody else by writing that a USCG-Vessel isn't a warship, I dearly apologize. It was never my intention to offend."
From my point of view a warship is only a warship in times of war. Especial for the Coastguard I share Your idea of lifesavers. After all the word GUARD doesn't specific mean a warrior, right?
I believe that the main function of a GUARD is to protect, and, if neccessary, by means of force.
And last but nt least: Not all Coast Guard Vessels, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are armed with cannons, just look for the list of vessels they sail, like tugs, icebreakers etc.  etc.
Again, If I offended You, I apologize.
Kind Regards
Aad

Apology accepted and thank you.

The current fleet of icebreakers and tugs in the Coast Guard do not have deck guns etc. so you are correct about that.  The older ones (the "Wind" class), icebreakers were armed with twin 5"/38 deck guns as well as other armament.  Some of the tugs (Avoyel, Cherokee, Apache etc.) had 3"/50 deck guns.  Those ships are long decommissioned. 

All the best to you, calm winds and following seas.

[metman]

Having read all the above posts it is obvious that VSTEP were told of the bugs - many bugs - by the beta-testers and chose to do nothing about them and instead decided to release a sub-standard game.  It has been stated that VSTEP were contractually obliged to release on the 27th August, but I bet that the wording of the contract would have stated that the 'released game would have been fit for purpose' or someother weasel words!!  It is obvious from the posts on this thread and others that SSE is not.  As variation on a well known TV advert in the UK says "It doesn't do what it says on the tin"!!

From where I am sitting it seems that VSTEP have taken an awful lot of money from an awful lot of people for a sub-standard game.  So there will be further patches - great - but if VSTEP had done there job properly those patches would not be needed.

You can be sure of one thing, if VSTEP had been contracted by Joe Blogs Cruises to provide a 'ship simulator' for use by their captains for ships going into various ports around the world and produced something like SSE then two things would have happened - a. VSTEP would not have been paid, and b. Word would have very quickly spread around the shipping world and would have resulted in no more contracts.

finally, I find it difficult to believe that VSTEP are NOT monitoring the forum for comments having jsut released a new product

Regards

Metman

[dodweb]

SSE is hardly the most bugridden piece of retail software I've ran into - by far. Never ran into any consumer software that was bugfree tbh. Quite sure they were hard pressed by publishers (and forum posters who couldnt wait any longer) to release on date. Many other games have faced the same issues and far more of them; I've previously mentioned Star Wars: Galaxies in 2003 (still being heavily patched, its mostly broken), Vanguard (not sure if its still alive?) and World of Warcraft (hardly playable at launch, something like 12M subscribers now). Windows Vista at launch...?

If you dont like bugs, dont buy consumer software at launch. Simple as that. It applies to many other things too, like foodstuffs, cars, electronics, various services. My old SE W810i couldnt take pictures if they would contain more than 33% green - it crashed and rebooted - until it got patched. After a year or so. Pretty much everything needs a bit of serious field testing that cant be covered by even the best BETA programme before all the kinks are ironed out. Backside of todays complex technology.

[Aad The Pirate]

There must be a reason for this 'bug'.
Or I'm colour blind,
Or it's just a translation glitch
Or something with my Graphic Card is very wrong.
Anyhow, at the very start of the tutorial mission I've been asked to click on the red ball to dis-connect the moore line.
The problem is that there are no red mooring balls, only yellow ones.
See Attachment.
The text is in Dutch, but I can assure you that rode means red in English

[The Ferry Man]

There must be a reason for this 'bug'.
Or I'm colour blind,
Or it's just a translation glitch
Or something with my Graphic Card is very wrong.
Anyhow, at the very start of the tutorial mission I've been asked to click on the red ball to dis-connect the moore line.
The problem is that there are no red mooring balls, only yellow ones.
See Attachment.
The text is in Dutch, but I can assure you that rode means red in English

I had this...

The mission creator must have got confused with SS08...

[Dooberry]

Not sure if this has already been raised but i'm not willing to scroll through 13 pages of bug reports to find out, anyhows the main bug of this game for me is that it was released to early and we were used as paying beta testers for a simulator that graphically seems to be a bit too far behind for this day and age.

The following issues i have noticed while playing the greenpeace campaign:

There seemed to be navigation lights floating in artic region, and also in the same region i managed to collide with an invisible object which looked like a boat as there was a shape in the water.

Regards and hope for the developers sake that you PLEASE improve this simulator as for the money i paid on steam for it was over the odds considering the pre release hype it had!!