EE Extreme - Ocean Star control graphic error

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[gihanjay]

Hi Guy,

Just wanted to say that I love the SS Extreme and spent most of the day playing the sim. I noticed something weird about the Ocean Star Passenger Line. The keyboard commands work great BUT the graphics representing the turn cordinates display the opposite. When I am turning rught for example, I press the right arrow keys but the graphic displays it as turning left. The ship goes as intended but the graphics are a bit messed up.  Everything else works well.

Gihan

[2000]

The azipods on the ship turn the opposite way you push the key. Example, if you push the right arrow key you go left.

[gihanjay]

Thank you so much for the info. Now it make sense as these are pod based propullsion systems.

Gihan

[gihanjay]

I have tried various ships that has the same propullsion system and all others work well except the Ocean Star, the control displays are opposite. They display the wrong side on the display. I have a video and I will post it soon.

Gihan

[matt5674]

The Orient Star has Azimuth Pods that face in the opposite direction. While on the Bugsier 2, they are facing outward, like propellers and a rudder. Orient Star's are facing the ship so the controls are reversed but not Throttle.

[mvsmith]

Gentlemen,

A preliminary monograph on operating Azimuth Drives can be downloaded here:

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19793.0.html (http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19793.0.html)

Regards,
Marty

[Denis]

I suppose VSTEP made this choice because lots of users of Ship Sim 2008 never understood why the Ocean Star was turning RIGHT when they used the LEFT arrrow key.

Now, the ship turns right when you hit the right key, but indeed the azipod levers turn left, because it's like they should work (on a ship with the azipod located at the aft of the ship, you have to turn them to the left to make the ship turn to the right).

[LucAtC]

As an illustration, not quite off-topic, for manual steering, the helmsman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUcQNxwcPtA) uses a wheel just the same way as for any other ship, with the same conventions, limited rudder angles and pivoting speeds. See also vampire's interesting post (http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,9156.0.html) about it, particularly the steering response delays.
The manual azimuthing remote controls, just in front of the supposed OOW in the first picture, are used for manoeuvring in any direction by rotation of the base. The main electric AC motor rotates a fixed pitch propeller in either direction, and is controlled by the lever.

Regards,
Luc

[Alex Brown]

It does seem odd that it's been changed - previously it was 'real' whereas now it's not if you get what I mean  
Regardless of whether you're on the tractor tug, or liner, the levers should point in the direction of power really... I took out the RoRo at Dover because of this issue earlier today.
I'd also like to see the azimuth steering option back in controls as per the manual too, since the pods on both the B2 and the liner currently go to 180 and then you must go all the way around the otherside to get the equiv of 185 degrees.... this is a serious bind while running astern on the B2.

-Alex

[LucAtC]

Hello Alex Brown,
Except that the controls no longer look like Aquamaster, they turn for both ships in the same directions as the propulsion units themselves do, clockwise for instance if the pod pivots clockwise, and the levers do point in the direction of the power.
You are right about B2, and the 180° limit is a known issue, and the limit switches will be shortly removed.
Regards,
Luc

I had a closer look at the controls, I missed indeed the fact that the display bars of the rudder angle should be flipped and reflect that green is steering to starboard.

[Björn Holm]

I agree on the odd thing with the Orient Star manouvers, It was quite a challange to go longside with the keys working the wrong way :-)

[TNeves]

The fact that azipods act differently is easily explained. If you put a pen in front of you, and you move its rear end to the left, now the head of the pen points to the right, and the opposite happens the same way. This is the way that Ocean Star works, because the pods are positioned in the stern of the ship.

The Bugsier 2 has the pods positioned forward of the centre, near the aft I think, so when we turn the handle to port, the ship turns to port, just like in the pen

[Björn Holm]

If you shall turn to stbd with a pod, you move the handle to port, but in Orient Star you have to push arrow to starboard, wich is quite unrealistic for a simulator

[Denis]

I do not agree, Björn !

what has changed are the key you hit to turn the ocean star pods levers left or right, not in which direction you have to turn the pods to make the ship turn. Turning a ship with a keyboard is anyhow not realistic, it's a transposition of the real life. The transposition has changed, not the behaviour of the pods, which remains realistic.

The point is, as Alex Brown mentionned it, you can't turn the pods more than 180°, that's really a problem, but a LucAtc wrote it, this has already been reported and will quickly be improved.

[Björn Holm]

Hello

When you learn it, it is not a problem, as the 180 deg lock on the POD is, but when you are used of IRL manouvre like the old Ocean Star, it gets confusing 

[Alex Brown]

what has changed are the key you hit to turn the ocean star pods levers left or right, not in which direction you have to turn the pods to make the ship turn. Turning a ship with a keyboard is anyhow not realistic, it's a transposition of the real life. The transposition has changed, not the behaviour of the pods, which remains realistic.

Hello Denis,

If we compare it with Ocean Star, the keys are now completely backwards. If you used right arrow on Ocean Star previously, you'd get a turn to port as expected, since the pods themselves are turning clockwise just as you'd expect..... I recall there was much argument over this at the time on SS08 when the Ocean Star first came out and it was always left as it was due to it being accurate.
It is puzzling now that it would be changed in this manner - I don't have a controller and always use the keyboard, but if this is the case, I must now re-map my keys each time I just use Ocean Star so they are backward to get the accurate turning of the pods to match the keys. I always found previously that using the keys was about as good as you'd get certainly with the B2, since it would take about the same amount of time for the pod to come about as in real life. Now, this isn't an issue since vstep have fixed this with a display to tell you where exactly the pod is just as you'd get in real life - which I think personally is a brilliant move and has prevented many 'mishaps' while berthing
I realise this steering issue is probably not going to be resolved on Ocean Star and we'll have to get used to it, but do look forward to having the limits adjusted on the pods though as Luc said yesterday.

Thanks,

-Alex

[mvsmith]

I think that the choice of a more intuitive key behavior when steering OS was made partly in response to complaints and confusion in ’08.
There is a monograph on operating AZ drives for those who care to learn.

SSE is a new game, with new paradigms. If it stuck to the old, familiar, it would be stuck with many of the old faults.

There is a decided shift from emphasis on skill in navigation, ship handling, and seamanship in favor of a more arcade type of play, especially evident in missions where many events are beyond the player’s control. He is sometimes more like a passenger on a rollercoaster. I assume that this is an attempt to serve the perceived broader market.

[Azipod]

Did they add rudders to the Azipod system for SSE?   Or do you still have to apply power to the pods to turn the ship?

[TNeves]

Did they add rudders to the Azipod system for SSE?   Or do you still have to apply power to the pods to turn the ship?

Yes, you still have to apply power to the pods, and turn the pods to turn the ship, is not the way it works?

[LucAtC]

Yes and no, Azipod. Orient Star Azipods simulate 17.6 MW ABB propulsion units, powered by reversible electric motors inside the pods, with the screw propeller transmitting the thrust through slim legs having also the size and the function of rudders, effective down to 2.5 knots when the propellers are stopped.
Regards,
Luc

[TNeves]

Yes and no, Azipod. Orient Star Azipods simulate 17.6 MW ABB propulsion units, powered by reversible electric motors inside the pods, with the screw propeller transmitting the thrust through slim legs having also the size and the function of rudders, effective down to 2.5 knots when the propellers are stopped.
Regards,
Luc

I was talking about moving it with thrust.

With the propellers stopped we can steer the ship, using the "rudder design" of the pods, just like a ship without pods? Just to be sure that I understood what you said.

[LucAtC]

Yes, it is indeed so, and the size of the legs was chosen on purpose, it helps in keeping moderate steering angles too, as rudders don't have the same response as pivoting thrust.
Regards,
Luc

[cptdave1958]

According to Maritine Law, when steering, the way you turn the wheel or stick is the way the ship is suppose to turn. This is true in the real world so why not in the SSE

[LucAtC]

It is indeed an IMO requirement, but the azimuthing controls are intended for manoeuvring, like ABB azipod controls, not so for manual control of the steering. A regular wheel will be inserted as soon as it becomes possible.
Regards,
Luc