Topic: Sea Charts (Read 1968 times)

Jammy · « **on:** February 25, 2010, 00:10:19 »

Does anybody know best place/way to purchase ocean charts? I went looking on Amazon and could only find one chart for the Antarctic but it wasn't the area I wanted and they had no others. I already have one of the Mediterranean and would like one that matches the style.

And yes it is signed by the Captain of P&O's Oceana.

bsm2003 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2010, 00:29:22 »

http://www.tidesend.com/

Jammy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2010, 00:45:05 »

Thanks, but do you have anything better?
That site is too expensive, confusing and I would prefer something with GDP.

bsm2003 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2010, 04:15:37 »

http://www.ukho.gov.uk/ProductsandServices/Pages/Home.aspx

madmex · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2010, 05:35:06 »

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/enc/download_agreement.htm
http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/OnLineViewer.html
http://xpda.com/nauticalcharts/

google and you find your way

Jack

McGherkin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:42:07 »

Thank God for charts. An electronic one is all well and good, but if it isn't zoomed in enough, it takes away some of the detail, and occasionally some navigational hazards :-S

For example I've heard stories of a yacht being driven into a well charted rock, for precisely that reason.

IRI5HJ4CK · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:44:49 »

Hi Jammy,

Before you buy, just bear in mind that the up to date charts are really expensive (And chances are you'll still need to correct some, though they release pamphlets that give you the lat/long of new hazards. Chandlers usually show their corrections at the bottom)But anyway, the site I would use is the UK Hyrdographic office, they sell quite an abundance of charts, and of course, they're a government site.

http://www.ukho.gov.uk/ProductsandServices/Pages/Home.aspx

Also, if you're actually wanting to do some chart work...http://www.force4.co.uk/ - I bought some of my stuff off there.

Hope that helps!

Jack.
p.s. MCG, in that case, you'll be horrified to hear that there's currently a big on-going discussing about passing a law saying ships do not have to carry paper charts, instead, electronic charts. Apparently the Gov want them eradicated by the next 20 years!

McGherkin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:52:14 »

Quote from: IRI5HJ4CK on February 25, 2010, 08:44:49

p.s. MCG, in that case, you'll be horrified to hear that there's currently a big on-going discussing about passing a law saying ships do not have to carry paper charts, instead, electronic charts. Apparently the Gov want them eradicated by the next 20 years!

What an infernally STUPID idea. Not only are proper charts a safer way of navigating, but they provide a physical record of where the vessel ha been (assuming the crew regularly plotted their course as they are supposed to), which could be crucial if the crew fall overboard and the ship is recovered.

IRI5HJ4CK · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:55:34 »

I agree totally; however, in fact, I believe it would be better if they still used both, and both were a requirement. Using your example there, of a crew member falling overboard, the GPS can record that position, which then in turn is plotted on the electronic chart. As well as that, the electronic can give a continuous record of where the ship has been (in sync with the GPS). As oppose to having to plot a position every 30 minutes on a paper chart.

But, on the other hand, I agree with you when you say paper charts are better. I certainly don't fancy doing all my work on a screen. However, I'm sure mariners will still keep the paper charts aboard - It just won't be a legal requirement. (even though I still think it should be).

Jack.

The Ferry Man · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2010, 09:43:16 »

That does seem silly - if you lose power, you lose your charts... $:-\$

McGherkin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:32:25 »

Quote from: IRI5HJ4CK on February 25, 2010, 08:55:34

I agree totally; however, in fact, I believe it would be better if they still used both, and both were a requirement. Using your example there, of a crew member falling overboard, the GPS can record that position, which then in turn is plotted on the electronic chart. As well as that, the electronic can give a continuous record of where the ship has been (in sync with the GPS). As oppose to having to plot a position every 30 minutes on a paper chart.

But, on the other hand, I agree with you when you say paper charts are better. I certainly don't fancy doing all my work on a screen. However, I'm sure mariners will still keep the paper charts aboard - It just won't be a legal requirement. (even though I still think it should be).

Jack.

I agree that ECDIS has its advantages, but encouraging everyone to fit one will make some more amateur sailors think they don't need charts, and then where will they be?

I think the main problem is that they (Charts) cost so much. If they were cheaper then it would be easier for skippers to use both.

clanky · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:44:47 »

Electronic charts are already the primary means of navigation for many UK flagged ships.

Advantages:

- They are easy to use

- They can be integrated with all the other electronic navigation aids on the bridge

- they electronically store a record of the vessels exact position (GPS)

- They have built in redundancy

- All electronic navigation systems are both fed from the emrgency generator and also from a UPS so they will continue to work during a short total blackout and if for any reason the ship is running on emergency power for an extended period of time.

Disadvantages:

- They encourage laziness in navigation, many ships now simply follow a red line produced on the chart and transferred to the radar, rather than accurately fixing the ship's position and checking it against the chart.

- The use of electronic navigation systems and the laziness above has encouraged the idea that tradition navigational skills are no longer needed, the linchpin of the whole thing is the GPS system, if that system ever failed 90% of ships simply could not navigate safely.

MokMok · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2010, 19:01:22 »

@Clanky:

Quote

- The use of electronic navigation systems and the laziness above has encouraged the idea that tradition navigational skills are no longer needed, the linchpin of the whole thing is the GPS system, if that system ever failed 90% of ships simply could not navigate safely.

That is a very real danger when using electronic navigation systems. In case of a power black-out on board, or a disruption of the GPS-system, you can't rely onto the electronic navigation systems, but you have to navigate manually. Navigating manually is a very important skill you must be able to do it accurately when you are a seaman.

Jammy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2010, 19:08:20 »

Thanks for all the links guys, this will help me in my decision when I eventually get money to afford a new sea chart.
And I agree with all your points, electronic charts should in no way replace paper charts. Have both yes, but not just one as plotting your course on a paper chart is way too fun, make everything too electronical and you're bound to get bored.

Ballast · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2010, 20:16:03 »

In 2012 it becomes mandatory to have an ECDIS on board a tanker. For our company it would be great. It really saves a lot of time for the 2nd officer who is in charge of the voyage planning. Having 6 hrs on/6 hrs off watches in the short sea shipping, doesn't leave much time for things like that unfortunately

Sam · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2010, 20:18:04 »

I have been on a ship wich only relies on ECDIS so you shouldn't have paper charts on board (if your ECDIS meets the demands).
That was the Balticborg, with sistrship Botniaborg.

@McGerkhin
Does that allso happen with vectorcharts?
I can beleive that such a incident happens with a charplotter but not with a ecdis system.

Ballast · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2010, 20:23:44 »

The equipment is only as good as the guy that is operating it! There are also accidents known where vessels crashed into an island, because the navigator assumed the echo on his radar was a rainstorm instead of an island...

clanky · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2010, 09:14:01 »

Quote from: MokMok on February 25, 2010, 19:01:22

@Clanky:
That is a very real danger when using electronic navigation systems. In case of a power black-out on board, or a disruption of the GPS-system, you can't rely onto the electronic navigation systems, but you have to navigate manually. Navigating manually is a very important skill you must be able to do it accurately when you are a seaman.

The disruption of the GPS system is a very real danger, however a blackout onboard should not affect the electronic chart system, all electronic navigation aids should be supplied from a battery back -up which in turn is fed from the emergency switchboard.

As such the bridge should continue to be able to know exactly where they are drifting helplessly throughout a blackout.

Ballast · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2010, 23:32:42 »

I got a bunch of cancelled but used BA charts from the Med. sea and some of the UK coast. Anyone interested?

IRI5HJ4CK · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2010, 10:56:10 »

I'd love some of the UK, at the moment I only have my one from the RYA Day Skipper course. Considered getting others, but they're too expensive!!

Jack

Ballast · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2010, 16:50:36 »

I'll check if we have some nice ones of that part of the UK Jack. If so, i'll send them to you

Although you cant use them for navigation purposes anymore, they still look nice as decoration!

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2010, 18:32:04 »

Any seaside chandlery should be able to sell you all the charts you will ever need.

Author Topic: Sea Charts (Read 1968 times)