Dover-Calais WILL be in SSE!

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[The Ferry Man]

Is it just me, or is the point of this thread, in the first post even, to advertise for another thread on the forum?

I believe you would be correct

[mvsmith]

"If you bothered to read my post..."  (hmm... where, prey tell, have I heard that phrase lately... Marty, any ideas?)

Indeed I did read and understand the intent of your topic. That was just my way of hinting ever so subtly that I thought it was dumb; accurate, though, it most probably is.

[Master Captain]

i'll pass, probally going to chew up to much resources to have all that in 1 environment

[mvsmith]

I should think that the question of whether there will be a single environment encompassing both Dover and Calais could be settled simply by asking MMMMMM to ask Frank_VSTEP.

If such an environment will be in Extremes, it would make little sense to keep it a secret, given that VSTEP is desperate to maintain interest in, and desire for, Extremes until it finally is released.

On the other hand, if such an environment is not to be in Extremes, allowing speculation to raise expectations will, inevitably, lead to bitter disappointment and recriminations.

I, personally, see no pressing need to have both in the same environment if it leads to compromises such as lowered detail in the ports, longer initialization time, lower frame rates, greater demand on available memory, or a foreshortened distance between the ports.

[Master Captain]

i'm with you on that mvsmith, all that in one environment would take too much resources to run, people would then complain that its slow and it doesn't work after wanting dover and calais together. As you said things would have to loose detail to keep it managable. People really need to think about that

[RMS Gigantic]

Oh, wow, imagine trying to get Titanic to so much as LOAD in this "superenviromnent"!

Also, I have been having email conversations with Frank recently over permissions for the SS Nomadic to sail her way into Ship Sim. We are all hopeful; we just need a response from the vessel's owner, which is currently...

A department in the Northern Irish government

[mvsmith]

This is what a Dover-Calais environment would look like.
25 x 10 miles of channel, with the ports occupying a tiny area in the corners.

Ocean environments in SS 2008 are only 15 nm in diameter.

[Ballast]

That would look something like this on an electronic chart 

I should add rule no. 10 TSS at the COLREG topic 

[Kevinmcg_ships]

This is what a Dover-Calais environment would look like.
25 x 10 miles of channel, with the ports occupying a tiny area in the corners.

Ocean environments in SS 2008 are only 15 nm in diameter.

I don't want to upset the DCITSE camp, but that does not look attractive to me, from a gameplay view of point. That's a big expanse of the sea & very little left to explore the coastline, ports etc.

[The Ferry Man]

I don't want to upset the DCITSE camp, but that does not look attractive to me, from a gameplay view of point. That's a big expanse of the sea & very little left to explore the coastline, ports etc.

Still more then in the Oceans...

Maybe we should get mmmmmmm or Stu to E-Mail VSTEP, and see what response we get...

[Ballast]

I don't want to upset the DCITSE camp, but that does not look attractive to me, from a gameplay view of point. That's a big expanse of the sea & very little left to explore the coastline, ports etc.

You forgot to mention it's the busiest strait in the world with a large variety of ships. Nah indeed, it's not attractive to cross both lanes, stay sharp and maintain your total situational awareness   

[Master Captain]

no one is going to want to sit there to cross the whole channel, thats boring Not in real life but for a game it gets boring. Its just a waist of space too all that open ocean just for 2 little tiny harbors in the corner, makes sense to have them seperate

[Ballast]

I'm not sure what takes longer, sailing from Dover to Calais or from the Brienenoord bridge to Maascenter in the Rotterdam environment. People actually to the latter in the game.

[mvsmith]

You forgot to mention it's the busiest strait in the world with a large variety of ships. Nah indeed, it's not attractive to cross both lanes, stay sharp and maintain your total situational awareness   

That’s a good point Ballast,
Any meaningful missions would need a lot of AI to make it worthwhile. SS 2008 does not handle excessive AI well, and I’ve no reason to expect that Extremes will do better if the same architecture with QV is used.
Regards,
Marty

[Ballast]

That’s a good point Ballast,
Any meaningful missions would need a lot of AI to make it worthwhile. SS 2008 does not handle excessive AI well, and I’ve no reason to expect that Extremes will do better if the same architecture with QV is used.
Regards,
Marty

Well from my point of view ( i have the programming knowledge of a 3 yr old  ), isnt SS exceeding the capabilities of QV sooner or later?

[mvsmith]

The length of the Rotterdam environment is similar to the distance from Dover to Calais, but the scenery and the navigation (sans AI) is more interesting.

Missions such as T2 that require holding a steady course over open water for as little as 5 nm bring complaints of boredom. Doing it for 20 nm would get old fast for most players. Most likely they would do it once to see what it was like, and then lose interest.

The three-environment approach would allow the ports to be modeled in greater extent with less demand on resources, especially if memory management is improved in Extremes (something that is long overdue).

[Stuart2007]

With the greatest of respect to MVSMITH, you are familiar with the Dover Straits then are you? Forget what you think you can read from a chart. 'holding a course for 5NM... IF you're lucky. As for quickly losing interest- you mean like Southampton - Cowes, which is a similar amount of time and involves maybe 5/6 turns? Have people lost interest in it? I don't know. Why don't you ask instead of assuming.

I realise you would probably like another US port, just like people from Austria or Switserland or even Lichenstein would like their primary harboUrs. Everyone has their favourites they would like to see in it.

Instead of moping around here telling us our campaign is doomed, why don't you try and do something positive, such as campaign for whatever port you would like to see.

Whether or not you like it, or whether or not the campaign actually succeeds- it has got people TALKING about it (or POSTING, to be precise) so all I can say is, if you don't like it.... there are other topics to post in.

Have a nice day.

[Stuart2007]

The length of the Rotterdam environment is similar to the distance from Dover to Calais, but the scenery and the navigation (sans AI) is more interesting.

Sorry for the double post, but the last one was getting to big...

So are you saying that DCITSE won't overload the computer; your above post would suggest that... Or is it the boredom factor, which is your opinion- and you are entitled to it, obviously.

EDIT: I forgot to mention (as Ballast points out)... Go to many NM in a straight like and you will likely lose your keel as it's only a shallow puddle and there are 'one or two' sandbanks in the way.

[mvsmith]

Stuart seems to be somewhat confused. The discussion is not about the difficulties in navigating the real Dover strait, but the strait as it would be presented in the game. Stu seems ready to grasp at any straw, no matter how thin, for an excuse to sound off.

I have not been thumping for any US ports as an alternative. Beyond helping Canadian neighbors bring the Puget Sound/Strait of Georgia area and one of the world’s largest ferry systems to the attention of the rest of the world, I try not to contribute to the plethora of such demands. I understand the realities involved in environment selection and creation.

Speaking of those realities, I’m surprised that it has not occurred to him that launching his campaign so late in the day implies that he believes the task of creating that environment is so trivial that, if it has not already been underway, it could be completed by Q4, let alone the optimistic estimate of April.

[The Ferry Man]

Speaking of those realities, I’m surprised that it has not occurred to him that launching his campaign so late in the day implies that he believes the task of creating that environment is so trivial that, if it has not already been underway, it could be completed by Q4, let alone the optimistic estimate of April.

The original 'Campaign' started in August

[Stuart2007]

Stuart seems to be somewhat confused. The discussion is not about the difficulties in navigating the real Dover strait, but the strait as it would be presented in the game. Stu seems ready to grasp at any straw, no matter how thin, for an excuse to sound off.

Mr Smith. I may be critical of your posts but I have not personally attacked you or your character (at least not on a public board). Please refrain from attacking me personally, except by private message. By all means attack the point I am making, but not me personally.

Now that's out the way. Would the gentleman care to refrain from deflecting from the points raised in my previous post. I AM confused by your apparent contradictions. You must be objecting on one of the following points:

A)It is technically too restrictive on PC hardware
See your earlier contradictory posts
B)It will be boring
Maybe. Maybe not. Have you looked at the number of posts or viewed the 'whos viewing what page'
C)You think there are other more worthy campaigns
Then stop being so damned negative and come up with some better ideas

Ultimately, I don't know what criteria Vstep has for new scenarios. It was started as a bit of a joke and I never expected more than a couple of replies with the usual 'lol that's a good idea. rotflol' but there HAS been a response; a very significant response. OBJECTIVE commercial suggestions have been put on the campaign. You also seem to have forgotten in your attack, that there already exists a Calais area in pro.

Vstep will, I'm sure, add any scenario that they think will ultimately make them profit. If they can be convinced of this campaign, it MAY go in. If they can't then it won't it is so VERY simple... It needs to be.

[Stuart2007]

The original 'Campaign' started in August

Thanks for pointing that out, Deputy Chairman.


BTW Marty,

QUOTE from the first post...
This is meant as a light hearted topic to see if we can achieve the impossible and actually get anyone to pay attention to anything anyone ever says.

Note the phrase light hearted...The following URL gives a fairly good approximation as to the meaning of light hearted.

http://www.answers.com/topic/lighthearted

[mvsmith]

I have not posted these comments in your topic advocating that environment. Instead, I’ve posted in a topic that you started stating the premise that Dover-Calais would not  (http://not) be in Extremes.
I think my opinions as to why that is very likely to be, or should be, the case are certainly on topic.

[Stuart2007]

I notice you still haven't answered the points though...

Your posts are as welcome here as mine, I know that. All I ask is that we keep our personal opinions of each other out of the public domain. As long as you agree to that then I have no problem with your opinions of my facts.

[mvsmith]

Stu, I see no reason to choose among points of your own devising.

I will add that the existence of a Calais environment is irrelevant to the question of whether it is feasible, or even a sensible idea, to try to combine it with the Dover environment and a much larger channel environment into one very large environment.