Topic: Whaling- good or bad or Just darn stupid (Read 7125 times)

captain qwerty · « **on:** October 28, 2009, 19:10:23 »

what do you rthink about it- post your ideas here

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:12:45 »

Hello

There's an ongoing ~~arguement~~ discussion already at http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,16153.msg211288.html#msg211288

Maybe it's best to join in the fight there.

captain qwerty · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:16:02 »

Cheers

Wave Music · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:16:47 »

Voted for "I am hungry" as the time comes to my dinner.

captain qwerty · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:21:23 »

I am always hungry

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:23:29 »

Quote from: captain qwerty on October 28, 2009, 19:21:23

I am always hungry

Tape worm?

captain qwerty · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:25:34 »

Agent|Austin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:28:07 »

Don't we already have a topic discussing this?

The Japanese are whaling in a whale sanctuary, disregarding international whaling rules.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:29:11 »

You could look it up on google or wikipedia...

It's a little worm that lives in old VHS cassette tapes... very nutritious

Quote from: Agent|Austin on October 28, 2009, 19:28:07

Don't we already have a topic discussing this?

Well spotted AgentA... I can't imagine why I didn't point this out already.

captain qwerty · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:30:35 »

THIS TOPIC IS NOT JUST ABOUT WHALE WARS ( I do support them)

Wave Music · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:32:34 »

Ohhh My ears hurts again!

Agent|Austin · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:33:11 »

Well, no one else whales illegally, so then why is this topic here again?

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:34:27 »

Quote from: captain qwerty on October 28, 2009, 19:30:35

THIS TOPIC IS NOT JUST ABOUT WHALE WARS ( I do support them)

You mean you support whales or support whale wars?

Quote from: Wave Music on October 28, 2009, 19:32:34

Ohhh My ears hurts again!

Shall we all type in large letters to help you

Wave Music · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2009, 19:39:21 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on October 28, 2009, 19:34:27

Shall we all type in large letters to help you

Then I'll have nothing else to do than joining you & type in capitals as well, otherwise I won't be able to hear what I'm saying.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2009, 23:17:52 »

Quote from: Wave Music on October 28, 2009, 19:39:21

Then I'll have nothing else to do than joining you & type in capitals as well, otherwise I won't be able to hear what I'm saying.

Type in capitals?
Like London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Lisbon...

A long way to travel just to print a few posts.

Jammy · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2009, 00:12:24 »

Quote from: Agent|Austin on October 28, 2009, 19:33:11

Well, no one else whales illegally, so then why is this topic here again?

It depends on what you class as illegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Modern_whaling

Agent|Austin · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:59:47 »

Quote from: Jammy on October 30, 2009, 00:12:24

It depends on what you class as illegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Modern_whaling

They don't whale in an whale sanctuary. They also stick to a maximum quota, and don't harvest VERY endangered species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Japan_2

Jammy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2009, 18:22:03 »

Quote from: Agent|Austin on October 30, 2009, 01:59:47

They don't whale in an whale sanctuary. They also stick to a maximum quota, and don't harvest VERY endangered species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Japan_2

I know, but as a fellow Sea Shepherd supporter then you should know that the Japanese aren't the only ones Sea Shepherd class as illegal whalers. They also class Iceland and Norway as using scientific research as a disguise for commercial whaling.

Currently Norway has a hunting quota for 1,052 Minke Whales a year, and Iceland has a very small quota for 30 Minke Whales and 9 Fin Whales.

Sea Shepherd have focused more on the Japanese in recent years over the fact they hunt in a whaling sanctuary, as you rightly said. But they have in the past sunk half the Icelandic whaling fleet and two Norwegian whaling ships.

http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2009, 18:37:23 »

But who, prey tell, has been declared the king of the planet and can tell other sovereign states what they can and can not do in international waters?

I am no whaling fan at all. It is an evil from a bygone era, but that does not mean that I can enforce my opinion on others.

This is like objecting to someone smoking in your house- which is a fair enough complaint and then objecting to them smoking 9 miles away, whilst standing in a field miles from you- or worse case scenario in their own home.

As I said, I am against whale hunting but you need to come up with some very good reasons before you start trying to tell a sovereign state what to do, much less ram its legally operating ships.

Jammy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2009, 18:42:10 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on October 31, 2009, 18:37:23

But who, prey tell, has been declared the king of the planet and can tell other sovereign states what they can and can not do in international waters?

I am no whaling fan at all. It is an evil from a bygone era, but that does not mean that I can enforce my opinion on others.

This is like objecting to someone smoking in your house- which is a fair enough complaint and then objecting to them smoking 9 miles away, whilst standing in a field miles from you- or worse case scenario in their own home.

As I said, I am against whale hunting but you need to come up with some very good reasons before you start trying to tell a sovereign state what to do, much less ram its legally operating ships.

This is their reasoning.

Quote from: http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/

In 1986, the International Whaling Commission (IWC) enacted a moratorium on all commercial whaling. Since then, three nations - Iceland, Norway, and Japan - have brutally slaughtered over 25,000 whales under the guise of scientific research and for commercial purposes. The IWC does not have the capacity to enforce the moratorium. Sea Shepherd, guided by the United Nations World Charter for Nature, is the only organization whose mission is to enforce these international conservation regulations on the high seas.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2009, 18:53:55 »

It is a moratorium- effectively a 'gentlemans agreement'. It is not legally binding.

Just because most countries want something, you can not force it on the rest unless you declare war, which is quite frankly a bit of an overkill.

You can stop them whaling in your own terratorial water and probably make it very difficult near to it (especially if 2 countries nearby agree) but it is a different matter in deep international water.

Let me give you an example. Assuming you are not a vegetarian. I, as a veggymuncher decide unilaterally that you are not to eat meat as it's wrong and so many veggies have signed a moratorium. I then break into your house, steal your dinner, beat you up in the process (sounds harsh, but compare to ramming a ship) and my basis for this is that me and some mates met up in a pub and declared not only meat illegal in our own homes, but in your own home too- and that includes the kebab on Friday night after the pub.

It is laudable that you support the anti-whaling movement, although perhaps not with sea shephard mob. All I ask is that you try to argue your point with the pen rather than support people whom I'd consider as pirates...

Incidentally, am I correct in thinking that under international agreement- the same system as being used to support the anti-hunting mob- that a captain of a ship can use deadly force to prevent piracy? I wonder if purposefully ramming a ship or preventing it going about its business is classed as piracy.

Jammy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2009, 19:36:42 »

Stuart I can see your point, but let me show you mine, and it's a bit more harsh than your vegetable comparison.

Lets compare whale hunting, and the ignorance towards what's going on, with the Holocaust. If both Europe and North America ignored the events going on in concentration camps with thousands (perhaps millions I can't exactly remember) of Jews being murdered, what would our world be like today if the world ignored the holocaust?
Now my point compared to yours is that, if people hadn't taken action to something that wasn't their country's business then more innocent people would've died, so if the world doesn't take action to Japan's business then more innocent whales will die.
Now, after the war the United Nations was formed am I right? And under United Nations laws in which Sea Shepherd crew are part of countries participating in these international laws, and so are Japan. Sea Shepherd are protecting the whales under the United Nations World Charter for Nature, which Japan are obliged to obey to. Nevermind the IWC, that is as you say, just a group that not everyone has to obey to.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2009, 19:45:09 »

Jammy, you make a good point. That's all I wanted- for people to give a reasoned and rational arguement and I have to say, even if I'm not totally convinced of the comparison, that this is a good arguement.

Do you therefore think (and I am asking, not provoking or judging) that in this case what amounts to piracy is acceptabl? I reiterate that I am not judging or provoking you there.

To others: See what can happen with reasoned debate? Two opposing views can come together to a degree of concensus.

Jammy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2009, 19:59:15 »

Well it depends on what you define as piracy, Sea Shepherd don't gain anything out of "harrassing" the whalers, and no whalers are properly harmed in the process. The whalers just lose out of what they want. So it is a protest, because the effects that Sea Shepherd have is slowing down what they are protesting about, nothing else.

What Sea Shepherd have done in the past is piracy, yes I admit that. Scuttling half the Icelandic whaling fleet and two Norwegian whaling ships. But this conflict with the Japanese in the southern ocean isn't piracy from what I've seen so far, the closest being boarding one of the vessels but of course handing a letter to the captain and being tied and beaten up in the process isn't what I would call a pirate do you?
My personal view is that if there's no military action being taken to something illegal by UN law then Sea Shepherd have a right to at least confront and harass the whalers as long as nobody is harmed in the process. I know ramming isn't a good way of going about it, as that breaks Colreg regulations and is therefore illegal (I think) but I wouldn't class it as piracy.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:07:00 »

The wikipedia entry for piracy is

Piracy is a war-like act committed by private parties (not affiliated with any government) that engaged in acts of robbery and/or criminal violence at sea. The term can include acts committed in other major bodies of water or on a shore.

I would add that I wouldn't normally accept an entry from Wiki but in this case, I happen to think it is about right.

Poll

Is whaleing good, bad or just darn stupid ?

Author Topic: Whaling- good or bad or Just darn stupid (Read 7125 times)