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Author Topic: Open-Source the code for building ships!  (Read 4778 times)

asuastrophysics

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Open-Source the code for building ships!
« on: August 09, 2009, 20:39:37 »

I don't understand why V-Step doesn't release source code for building ships to third parties. Flight Simulator X does it, as well as every Microsoft Flight Simulator game ever made. I just don't understand why I have to *buy* ships from V-step's "proprietary" shipyard.

Anyone else here feel the same way? I already paid $25 for their game, I shouldn't have to pay more for better function. If they released a development kit for ships, more people might actually buy the game.

Take this thread for example: http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,15043.0.html

We shouldn't have to put things on a "wish list" for them to develop and then charge us for.

Vstep, remember the Betamax player? Any of this ringing a bell?

Ship Sim 2008 is a great game but in retrospect I think my $$ would've been better spent on virtual sailor...
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Agent|Austin

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 20:41:22 »

^ I agree... Some people will say that ship building is complicated and such... But FSX devs seem to do it just fine even with 3D cockpits, and VS is doing good too.
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asuastrophysics

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 20:55:37 »

^ Shipbuilding is complicated, but i bet there are some really smart people out here on these forums who could make some cool models.

Some people already have, but nobody can put there models in the game without first sending their model to Vstep... ???
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firestar12

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 20:58:31 »

If you want to do that, get VS. This is ShipSim, and is meant for serious play.
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asuastrophysics

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2009, 21:04:20 »

^ it's designed for serious *expensive* play. think about how many more copies of ship sim could be sold if it wasn't so closed off to development.

i don't see why open-sourcing ships isn't a great idea. V-step, you design the program and then let us design a whole fleet of ships, custom scenery, ship behaviour, weather, etc

the possibilities would be endless...
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Wave Music

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 21:05:04 »

This (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,14552.msg180463.html#msg180463) presentation will help you to understand what is actually involved in making a ship for SS.  
Of course, if you're an advanced modeler - no one is holding, go take that 3DS Max or Blender, etc. & make your own ship, the ship of the desired kind & type.  But the quality of modeling should be somewhere near around to that (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,49.0.html).
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keep it gnarly

firestar12

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 21:12:10 »

Exactly, and ships for VS are no where near good enough when it comes to dynamics and all that. Many try to make them good enough for SS, but so far, few have proved themselves.
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asuastrophysics

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 21:17:35 »

that presentation mentions that there are 47 "discrete" steps in making a ship in SS 2008, but it only shows 26 of them. from slides 31 to 36, some program is being used that looks to be owned exclusively by vstep.

NOTE: I've modeled gmax planes for Flight Simulator X, so I do have a fairly good idea as to what's involved in the process.
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Captain Darling

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 21:19:38 »

This is what I feel about this subject.

If you want some cheap solution for your ship simulation whereby you want custom ships yet with no proper or realistic dynamics, go for Virtual Sailor.

If you want, the most realistic ship simulation possible, go for Ship Simulator (By VSTEP).
Why? It's long and time consuming proccess to get ships into Ship Simulator because of the realistic dynamics and other details that you don't have on Virtual Sailor.

If VSTEP gave out a tool to get ships into Ship Simulator, you'd find that alot of bad sketchup ships will be distributed, with no realistic dynamics. That's improper, this Sim is reknowned for it's realism, and if you allow just anyone to create content then that realism disapears.
Some people rather have the realism than the improper custom content, I think the sim is better off as it is now.


So if you want this or that, now you have the option.
In my opinion, VSTEP shouldn't change this and I don't think there is any sign of it being changed for Extremes either.


that presentation mentions that there are 47 "discrete" steps in making a ship in SS 2008, but it only shows 26 of them. from slides 31 to 36, some program is being used that looks to be owned exclusively by vstep.

NOTE: I've modeled gmax planes for Flight Simulator X, so I do have a fairly good idea as to what's involved in the process.
Well, some steps are exclusive and can only be done by VSTEP, but I could be wrong.

Getting content into SS is far different than any other, there are many different tools, object editor, dynamics editor e.t.c
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Regards,
James

Wave Music

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 21:25:08 »

+ don't forget about permission from the ship owner. 
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 23:34:08 »

And don't forget.. Everyone that can build a suited ship for the game, can work together with Vstep to get it in, so it's not like there is a need for any open source code stuff to begin with. And Vstep will provide the tools and even assistance where needed. And indeed, some steps in the process are done by VStep themselves.

The fact that not many people actually deliver suitable models, that's not Vstep's fault, obviously. And if you see where an open structure like VS leads to, in terms of the quality of the addons our there.. well.. Open source isn't everything either. And don't forget aswell that the flightsimming addon scene didn't just pop up right when Flightsim started out. And keep in mind how many models in simulators lack proper dynamics. Just because you can model, does't mean you're a marine engineer too, knowing how to make the ship behave realistically. I have had many many sims, and TONS of addons in all sorts shapes and sizes, and I find that only a VERY small percentage of user made addons is of a professional enough standard to truly simulate a realistic situation in a game where realism is paramount. As said above...if you want a huge fleet of average ships that perform unrealistically, there are other games out there.

It's all apples and oranges mostly, if you compare it one on one. Vstep just decided to keep the quality in control. And I know more than enough games that have no addons whatsoever, 3rd party ór official. You get what you pay for, and you know what you get beforehand. There's nothing that the developer "owes you" in terms of free new goodies, after you have bought the full game. Many developers sell their addons, that's nothing new at all, so paying for new content seems reasonable enough, it's just that gamers are spoiled by all the free 3rd party stuff out there for so many games, that they expect free bonus material with everything, these days.

We shouldn't have to put things on a "wish list" for them to develop and then charge us for.

We should be able to just tell them what we want and then get it for free?  I rest my case.

Doesn't work like that. It takes a lot of time, effort and money to create these addons, people do that for a living, they have to feed their family, giving it away is bad business. ;)


^ it's designed for serious *expensive* play. think about how many more copies of ship sim could be sold if it wasn't so closed off to development.

Ship Simulator is the leading title in the non-combat nautical simulation genre with half a million copies sold, not counting the addons. Go ask on the VS forum, how many they sold. Just compare forum members to begin with.  ;)

Fred.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 23:44:30 by Mad_Fred »
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Wave Music

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2009, 23:37:42 »

Fred knows best. :P
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2009, 23:38:53 »

No I don't, don't you know me by now?   :P
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Open-Source the code for building ships!
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2009, 23:46:27 »

NOTE: I've modeled gmax planes for Flight Simulator X, so I do have a fairly good idea as to what's involved in the process.

If you are interested in creating something or getting an idea of the exact guidelines, I have attached the list of requirements for creating addon vessels;


Regards,
Fred

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