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Author Topic: San Fransisco Shallow Water  (Read 6048 times)

mariner01

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San Fransisco Shallow Water
« on: December 02, 2008, 22:44:10 »

I am trying to put the large container vessel by the container berths in San Fransisco (south east of Bay Bridge and opposite airfield) - the ship should float there in real life but it grounds in the middle of the channel.
Any advise please.
Thanks  ???
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TerryRussell

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 01:20:06 »

This isn't a technical support issue. I'll move it to General discussions, where you're more likely to get an answer.

Please check the posting guidelines (Top of the Ship Simulator 2008 area) before you make any further posts.
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MMMMMM

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 03:25:21 »

Yes i noticed that to im a san franciscan and Not right :-\ /LOl
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mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 10:12:26 »

This isn't a technical support issue. I'll move it to General discussions, where you're more likely to get an answer.

Please check the posting guidelines (Top of the Ship Simulator 2008 area) before you make any further posts.

Thanks - sorry about that!  :-X
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mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 10:19:05 »

Yes i noticed that to im a san franciscan and Not right :-\ /LOl

The strange thing is the first time it worked ok as an A1 routed vessel - when I retried it no go!
There must be a way round eing able to change the draft on a routed vessel or even the depth of water.  If it is a container berth area then it should be deep enough!

Regards
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Bottman

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 12:07:28 »

This is a very often discussed problem! And your are right, of course! The developers decided to use the lowest tide for every environment which causes problems almost everywhere. Some small changes have been made after a few rumors, but it is still insufficient. :-\
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Bottman

Navigare necesse est!
Look at www.elbdampfer-hamburg.de

mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 14:56:31 »

This is a very often discussed problem! And your are right, of course! The developers decided to use the lowest tide for every environment which causes problems almost everywhere. Some small changes have been made after a few rumors, but it is still insufficient. :-\
I wonder if they use the same concept for their Professional Simulator - one hopes NOT!
Having been involved in the professional simulator world for some time I am VERY surprised that they don't think of these things before publishing - only causes frustration amongst users besides losing some credibility!
Regards  :'(
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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 15:02:57 »

Hi Mariner01,

You have to remember, this was the first try for V-STEP. And I'd guess that the main reason for this not being sorted out is that, V-STEP have been working on Ship Simulator Professional. And vessels for Ship Simulator 2008, and Ship Simulator 2009/2010. And many other things, too.

Jack :)
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Kind Regards,
Jack.

LucAtC

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 16:00:18 »

Hello,
This is quite right, but the draught of Vermaas is 50 ft, and the Oakland Inner Harbour was not yet 46 ft deep (channel and berths) when the game was designed.
Also, the tide height of the latest low tide yesterday evening was about 1", such big ships seemingly don't reach the harbour fully loaded indeed. That is why a small change has been made to the container ship, a version with a smaller draught, after a few rumors like Michael said.
Regards,
Luc
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TerryRussell

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 19:31:34 »

In Vstep's defence, the depths aren't wrong. They are simply modelled on the lowest possible tides. They had to select some state of the tide and they chose the chart datum depths. That may be inconveient, but it isn't wrong. It does present some logistical challenges, of course.

Also, not all the harbours are incorect. For instance, Padstow is correctly modelled, but on about 2/3 tide. The charts correctly show CD depths and the vessels then have several metres more water, which is entirely appropriate.

New York has a problem, but that is a matter of being too deep. The charts used by Vstep showed the depth in feet, but it was believed that it was shown in metres. Having seen the charts, I can understand the confusion.

I am currently working with them on Portsmouth, Southampton and other Solent areas. The changes are not a five minute job, unfortunately.



If you want versions of ships that have reduced drafts, that can access most harbours, you can download them from Creators Forum (click on the link on my signature).
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Bottman

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 19:51:03 »

Well, nobody says that VSTEP did something wrong. But they have denied our very early request to choose at the least the mide tide. And by the way, the quays are all shown at high tide (more or less)!!! That's why we mission creators have made a few missions with wrong conditions in advance, because the tidal influenced ports are looking definetely not like being in the lowest tide situation! That caused many frustration on both sides, the players and the creators. :-[
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Bottman

Navigare necesse est!
Look at www.elbdampfer-hamburg.de

TerryRussell

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 20:07:19 »

I know... You have my sympathies.

The land is shown at high tide, while the water is shown at low tide. Someone has stolen 12-15 feet of mud in the middle!  ;D

Vstep are very much aware of the problems now. 2010 will be so much better!
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mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 00:14:54 »

I think this is a GREAT simulator with GREAT potential ...
However, am I missing something -
When running a mission the chart shows buoys, depths etc but not on the mission editor chart.  Wouldn't it help to show the depths to help planning where to put the ships and A1 routeing?
There is the loaded container ship Vermaas, is there discharged Vermaas that may help the draft situation?
Regards  ???
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TerryRussell

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 01:11:10 »

You can get the reduced draft Vermaas from Creators Forum (link is in my signature, below)
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Bottman

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 07:17:17 »

I think this is a GREAT simulator with GREAT potential ...
However, am I missing something -
When running a mission the chart shows buoys, depths etc but not on the mission editor chart.  Wouldn't it help to show the depths to help planning where to put the ships and A1 routeing?

They idea was to show in red letters, that the area is too shallow. But this is quite not a perfect solution, because we now have several (deep sea!) areas, where this hint occurs and at other places, where it is really too shallow, the warning doesn't pop up. As mentioned before, we will see it in a better way in the future! Hopefully...;-)

Regards
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Bottman

Navigare necesse est!
Look at www.elbdampfer-hamburg.de

mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 10:32:35 »

You can get the reduced draft Vermaas from Creators Forum (link is in my signature, below)
Thanks for that Terry -
I specialise in port work (real world) hence my interest in drafts/depths etc.
Appreciate all replies sent since my original posting - all very interesting and constructive which is what tyhis Forum should be about.
Best Regards
Terry H.
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mariner01

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Re: San Fransisco Shallow Water
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 10:33:57 »

They idea was to show in red letters, that the area is too shallow. But this is quite not a perfect solution, because we now have several (deep sea!) areas, where this hint occurs and at other places, where it is really too shallow, the warning doesn't pop up. As mentioned before, we will see it in a better way in the future! Hopefully...;-)

Regards
Thanks for that Bottman
I specialise in port work (real world) hence my interest in drafts/depths etc.
Appreciate all replies sent since my original posting - all very interesting and constructive which is what tyhis Forum should be about.
Best Regards
Terry H.  :)
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