Telegraphs on Titanic

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[kev600]

Is it just my computer or does everyone notice that when you move the the telegraph's from let's say ahead half to ahead full there is suppost to be a noise when you ring not just when the engine room applies more speed! it only rings on mine when the engine room does this??? is this made in the game or does this happen for everyone!!!!

[Orinoco]

Happens for me too.

Did you also notice that the Telegraph for the Port Engine is backwards?

[jason210]

Yup. It needs fixing.

[sonarman]

I used to work aboard the PS Waverley and she still uses original brass chadburn telegraphs. As far as I remember when the bridge officer rings the telegraph on the bridge there are in fact no bells heard there. Bells are heard only in a response from the engine room, as in fact simulated in the game at the moment. 

[Orinoco]

I used to work aboard the PS Waverley and she still uses original brass chadburn telegraphs. As far as I remember when the bridge officer rings the telegraph on the bridge there are in fact no bells heard there. Bells are heard only in a response from the engine room, as in fact simulated in the game at the moment. 

Aye, but what about the ones on Titanic? They ring bells in the films too, so there must be some truth to it.

[groennegaard]

They ring bells in the films too, so there must be some truth to it.

The film is no guarantee for any fact!  The film was produced to entertain... it is not a documentary. Why should the bell ring on the bridge? The bell signal used for getting the attention of the engineers - it will have no fuction on the bridge...

Regards
groennegaard

[kev600]

i pretty sure that they did ring on titanic but it is a huge dissapointement to me. I play this game for the telegraphs alone and titanic. I know this is a bit fussy but the sounds are also very bad in this game. In "a night to remember" and james cameron's "Titanic" the telegraphs sounds are much better and more realistic of what i've heard. Thats snother request lads

[Orinoco]

A Night to Remember is classic! 

[kev600]

Hi everyone,

I got the Post a few days ago and as a few of you know that i am really only interested in Titanic. The Problems are stil there just to let you know.

Titanic Still moves at STAND-BY. There is one. There is no noise off the telegrpah when it's turned and last and still most important sort of to do with the stand by is that. When you open up the controls at the bottom left of the screen it's not a telegraph there fore that's being moved when i ahve it at Stand-by so it put power into the engines. Also there is multiple speeds at each station as you can move it to say 22% ahead and then go to 35% ahead and it will still be at Slow. It should all be the same speed!!!

SORRY TO ANNOY YOU LADS

[kev600]

any chance of an update on the above

[titanic-fan]

mines always seems to ring minutes after i have changed the speed!!!???

[mvsmith]

The engine room telegraph might not have rung on the bridge when set by the bridge officer, but it would have rung on the bridge when acknowledged by the engine room.

As Sonarman pointed out early in this topic, and you can see by looking at the engine order Chadburns at either end of the bridge, there is a small pointer in addition to the handle. That small pointer is set by the Chadburn in the engine room to acknowledge that the order has been recieved and executed. That definitely does ring a bell on the bridge.

If you look through the binoculars at the port telegraph, you can move the handle and see that the pointer follows it after an apropriate delay. The bell rings at each step that the pointer takes.

It is amusing how quick some are to fault VSTEP without paying close attention to what is actually happening, and, in many cases, without any real knowledge of the subject.

Before some expert asks why I call them Chadburns when the Titanic's are by J.W. Ray, William Chadburn is the inventor. His first parent was issued in 1870.
Mauretania and Lusitania used Chadburn instruments.
There is a museum in Liverpool dealing with Chadburn history.




 

[R.Cain]

Hi,

Just to add a little to what MVSmith just posted, if you're wondering what you'd hear when you ran the telegraph through forward, then back to the setting you're calling for, the best example I can think of offhand is and old automatic transmission that's not too smooth anymore.  Run your shift all the forward and back and that's about it.  (Please, don't!)   ..and the bells in wheel-house were so the captain could hear the engine room's answer to his command, whether he was on the bridge, or in either the port or starboard Docking Bridge, where he'd be calling his orders while in harbour or at the dock.

Yours,
 

[Saphire]

Will there be any way to change it.

[mvsmith]

Change what?
VSTEP has been quite meticulous in emulating the engine order telegraph.
Citing a motion picture as an authority in such matters is ludicrous.
There are exceptions, of course:
Ridley Scott’s depiction of Nostromo’s bridge is dead-bang accurate, and to my knowledge has never been successfully challenged.

[Fredriksen]

On Titanic there might have been a bell inside the engine order telegraph that rung when the handle where moved by the bridge officer. This to give attention to everyone on the bridge that a new order was sent to the engine room. See this picture: http://titanic.marconigraph.com/telegraph18.jpg (http://titanic.marconigraph.com/telegraph18.jpg)

How to give a new order to the engine room:

1. The bridge officer had to overshoot the handle to ring the bell in the engine rom.
2. The handle is then set to the correct order.
3. In the engine room the officer overshoot the handle to ring the bell at the bridge.
4. The handle is then set to the new order.

In SS08:
if the engine order telegraph is set from STOP to FULL AHEAD, you will hear the bell ring 5 times (it should be 1), this is unrealistic, because this means there is 5 overshoots from the engine room, when there only should be 1.

To understand what I mean with overshoot, read this: http://titanic.marconigraph.com/mgy_eotelegraphs1a.html (http://titanic.marconigraph.com/mgy_eotelegraphs1a.html)

Hope you understand my english..
 

[mvsmith]

Fredriksen,
Thanks for joining the discussion, and for the pictures.
A couple of points:
Your statement, that the answering bell should ring only once in going from Stop to Ahead Full, is contradicted by your drawing of the pawl and clapper. Clearly the bell rings at each step of the answering pointer, as it does in the sim.

This has nothing to do with the practice of overshooting, which was just that: a practice observed on some, but by no means all, ships in order to ensure that an incoming order was noticed above the din of a reciprocating steam engine, and perhaps to signal urgency (like maybe an iceberg).

Motion pictures are generally about drama, and directors are not above adding a few extra ringy-dingys or frantic twitching of the handles to that end.

Individual players, of course, are free to adopt the practice of overshooting when driving Titanic from the bridge, but I doubt that many are quite so fanatical in their demand for realism.

Marty

[Fredriksen]

Thanks Marty 

I think you have a point.
But what do they mean with: "overshoot to ring the bell"? Is that a EOT with no pawl and clapper?
I realy love Titanic and want to know as mutch as possible about her, and I have got more and more interested in the engine order telegraphs. I realy want to know how they work. 

[mvsmith]

Fredriksen,
I’ll try to find more sources for you.
Remember, there were many other manufacturers of telegraphs, either licensed by Chadburn, or after his original patent expired. You can expect to find some variation in the way they worked.
Try this link:
http://www.chadburntelegraphs.com/ (http://www.chadburntelegraphs.com/)

Med hilsen
Marty

[LucAtC]

Hello,
A very interesting and recent document about the slip of the screws of Titanic
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/speed_v_revolutions.html
citing also J.W. Ray & Co as apparently makers of the telegraphs of Titanic
Regards,
Luc

edit: also telegraphs howto
http://titanic.marconigraph.com/mgy_eotelegraphs1.html

[sonarman]

On "overshooting"

Whilst working on Waverley I found that "overshooting" was largely a matter of preference for whichever captain was in command. An old merchant navy handbook states that it is bad practice to overshoot as it causes delays in order response. I think some skippers preffered to do it as it could be easy to miss a single bell "ding" in the noise of an engine room. I am also sure that the bell rings on each step

Interestingly on Waverley in the engine room two seperate distinct bell tones can be heard I think the spring tension on the bell hammers is set slightly differently for the astern and ahead zones for the telegraph pointer.

You can hear how Waverley's telegraph sounds in "overshoot" mode here  (http://www.waverleyexcursions.co.uk/steamengine.htm)
And see a video of her engine with telegraph sounds here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=W6EbJudRiYQ&mode=related&search=)

I used to love watching the engine at night when all of the passengers had gone ashore and half the lights were out, very dramatic.

[mvsmith]

Thanks for those two good links, Luc.
On R/V Argo, a 1940 Navy ARS, Snatch, later an AGOR, the intercom was routinely used for communicating with the engine room. The bridge would ask for “turns for 12 knots” and the engineer would refer to the equivalent of a slip table to set the RPM on the motors.
Argo was diesel-electric drive with four Fairbanks-Morse engine/generators feeding motors on the twin screws. (More or less the same parts used on S-boats of the 30’s)
Marty

[sonarman]

The bridge would ask for “turns for 12 knots” and the engineer would refer to the equivalent of a slip table

Yes I think that was quite often the case, also some telegraphs actually were marked in rpm rather than the usual "full ahead" etc. In addition to the common bridge to engine room telegraphs larger ships also often had engine room to boiler room telegraphs and some ships like Waverley had docking telegraphs to tell the seaman when to haul in /let-go/ make fast ropes & anchors etc

[sonarman]

Looks like the "popup" style telegraph will make a reappearance in the forthcoming addon

link (http://www.tugspotters.com/internationaal.htm)

[R.Cain]

Hi,

Good show!     For some vessels, it would be more accurate and appropriate.