Ship Simulator >> Virtual Sailor

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

[Nathan|C]

On the Hangsim forum, i posted requesting the PoR for VS. I also mentioned and posted a picture of the SS08 PoR, when some of them came up with the idea of taking the ShipSim POR and converting it for use in VS..........Surely that would be illegal?

[Agent|Austin]

It would. Ship Simulator files are protected by VSTEP and the EULA. You own a License for the game. You DO NOT own the game. Witch means you DO NOT own the game files. You own a license to use the game.

[IRI5HJ4CK]

It would. Ship Simulator files are protected by VSTEP and the EULA. You own a License for the game. You DO NOT own the game. Witch means you DO NOT own the game files. You own a license to use the game.

So v-step could come around to me house and take away my copy of SS!? haha

[Captain Best]

So v-step could come around to me house and take away my copy of SS!? haha

HAHAHA.

I  dont think they would come.
because you have bought the Game Rights to play it.
 

That was a funny one Jack

[JHB]

Well..they have also found a way to convert vessels from the game Silent Hunter.
There are nobody that controls who makes what or where they got the 3D model from. Virtual Sailor is a game where nobody got control what goes inside the game.

Not surprising that they try to grab ships out of other games or just grab a 3D model from Google 3D Warehouse to put the name on it and announce on the forum: "look what I just made..."

All trough I think they will have to work hard to hack a CGR-file (amateurs...)

[TerryRussell]

Hi Nathan.

You could tell Captain Jammy and others that they are being watched...

Captain Jammy wrote:
That would be copyright infringement I think. Unlike any other games we've taken models from, all the ships on Ship Simulator are modeled by a company, and they would never grant us permission to take their models and convert them for VS.

Capt. Lindemann
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:51 pm

While it may be copywright infringement if you release it to the public, it is not if you do this for yourself and yourself only. I would have to see the EULA to be 100% shure. I hope the thought police do not remove this under the guise I am breaking some internatl. law.......

[Nathan|C]

Hi Nathan.

You could tell Captain Jammy and others that they are being watched...

Ok Terry, i'll let them know.

[TerryRussell]

Thanks.

I don't wear this evil icon for nothing...

[Nathan|C]

All those who have been playing with the idea of converting the Ship Simulator Pride of Rotterdam into Virtual Sailor, word of warning. You are been watched closely by the VSTEP Developers and Forum Moderators.

[IRI5HJ4CK]

Ok Terry, i'll let them know.

I'll let them know as well, i have an account there.

[Captain Best]

Is this the Vs Forum where that silly idea is putted out?

[TerryRussell]

H Nathan.

Yes, I saw the post withn a few moments of you making it. Many thanks. I won't blow my cover...

[Nathan|C]

Terry,

Sorry to bring this back to life but...

http://www.hangsim.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=356&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

He's suggesting they change the VSTEP PoR so it isn't copyright anymore, then put it into Virtual Sailor.   
"MatthewOrangeStarLine" sounds familiar too.

[IRI5HJ4CK]

Not impressed, especially if its who I think it is

Jack.

[Ncena1]

still its not allowed to use / change the file i think!

[TerryRussell]

Thanks Nathan.

I doubt he can simply take a copy and convert it. He could recreate the whole vessel and release his own work. But of course, at that stage the vessel owners might have been alterted. And they have a very sharp legal team... 

In any case, Phil2 is a very honest and decent chap, and I think he may have stepped in a long time before that.

But many thanks for the heads-up. 

[JHB]

They make up their own laws over there, make it sounds like their actions are legal, and barely a few of them ask for permission to use content made by others.

2nd they grab images from the Internet, logos from cruise and transport companies, add them to their models and release it all, not even a credit text that says where they did get the content from, who gave them permission to use it etc.

 I just gave up my work for Virtual Sailor because of one reason: no protection. Even if you release your work under a Creative Commons License (CC-license) or a General Public License (GNU) these kids over there will not understand what work release under a license means and what they are permitted or not permitted to do. Its all a chaotic, lawless mess and the VS developer Ilan Papini is doing nothing, absolutely nothing to control it. Instead they perform personal attacks on people that want to do something about it.

I even read threads over there that some guy know how to convert a Flight Simulator aircraft/plane into a plane for the Micro Flight simulator. He is so clever that he states that he got full permission to do this, but who can control him that he actually is telling the truth? Nobody can...

They say that "we", yes we "over here" or the "Ship Simulator" people hate them. Yeah maybe thats true, or maybe they just says it in lack of a better simulator, in a lack of another lawless simulator where they can extract the content out of it and do whatever they want with the content (the way Virtual Sailor works)?

This is a kid's playground, lawless non-mature playground, no control, no rules, just pure simple "my own world" situation where he actually can do whatever he wants, thats what Virtual Sailor is.

I could go on, but I had my no.  4458th rant on this subject. Nott over my dead body that I will make any new content for that lawless sim.

[Nathan|C]

I agree 100%, people make accurate models of real ships - but we don't think about the copyright. Is that Cunard logo really allowed to be there?

Who knows, no credit is given!

[TerryRussell]

Hi everyone.

It's a bunch of kids that haven't yet been taken to court for copyright theft. Yet... 

Sooner or later the legal beagles of one of the shipping companies will have a quiet day and will be looking for something to do/sue. Many of them are already aware of VS Forum and the ongoing copyright issues.

I have to say that when some of my horn sounds and radio packs were stolen and placed on that site, Phil2  was very good and removed them straight away. He banned the wrong doers as well. So I don't think it's fair to say that the VS Forum owners don't care. At least the Admin/Moderators do and seem to be very honest and decent people.

PS I know exactly who the person is, Jack. He has been strongly warned by me.

[firestar12]

I think, those on VS are following the principle "If nothing has happened - then it's ok to continue. If it'll happen - we'll just remove the logos, etc. & say "Sorry, we didn't knew"
Maybe they also think something like "Who ever among the ship owners or copyright owners would pay attention to this rubbish game!"

Until Someone reports them...

[TerryRussell]

Hi Hudizzle.

Read my post and you'll see that it wasn't just a little bit of copying of a logo. That was downright theft. Some thief took the work that I and Fred has spent many hundreds of hours and quite a bit of money getting together, and then claimed it as their own.

Just let anyone try stealing my work again, and they'll find out that legal is not nonsense. It's a High Court case. 

The work of others on this forum has also been stolen from time to time. The models in the Non-Vstep projects area seem prone to that. I saw Mr Robville's work stolen a couple of times and posted on the VS forums by other people claiming it was their own work.

Once again, I will say that I have always found the VS Moderators/Admins to be decent and honourable people. Some of their forum members less so, but it's not as if Hangsim has much control over that.

[JHB]

@Hudizzle

You will never agree with me and I haven't asked you to do so.
But i looks to me that you find non-commercial content more legal to grab than commercial content?
Well that is false, there is non-commercial content too that is distributed under a license such as creative commons license or GNU license. Those licenses clearly states what you are able to do and not to do.
I have used many commercial and non-commercial PHP scripts for websites, and they are usually released under a GNU license, and I read it.

BTW I'm not going to save your (**) the day someone eventually make a charge at you if you have grab someones work, either commercial work or non-commercial work. And when it comes to ship owners logo or company name they are subjected under trademark and copyright laws. But like someone have stated previously in this long topic: they wont do anything until the day they find it out. So its a gambling game, and you take your own risk by doing it. Now well, I'm not going to warn people. One thing is for sure that when I find my work stolen or used without my permission it will just turn into a hard case for me because I will have to spend money on getting a lawyer or even track up contact details for the one that have used my work. Now that may be a very hard process for a individual person that is not representing a company or have 2 billions at his bank account.

So why I'm so upset when it comes to VS is because it doesn't protect the content in the way Ship Simulator does. Ship Simulator is using CGR files and they cannot be opened or modified, but a pure JPG file, BMP, file or unprotected X-file containing a 3D model can easily be modified or used for other purposes.
So thats the reason why I'm very skeptical to VS, and mostly because it has already happened to me that someone did use my textures that I used hours to make, without asking for my permission or even didn't add a text file with credits to the original author (me).

So I understand now why there is a few talented CG artists  (like you for example) that is making content for this sim and not a lot of them, simply because the kids (yeah they are probably kids) that doesn't have a clue about copyrights at all will likely grab the content and add it to their own pure SU model released in matter of 4 days for VS and not credit anyone for the textures that they have likely found somewhere.

The sound pack that was stolen, well they did know all about it I guess, who made that sound pack and where the files where. But behind that, they took a chance on it (like they knew that someone is not watching them) and took it. They are likely thinking that (hey, I can take this stuff because nobody will watch me or track me).

Yeah someone thinks that Internet is a big playground that is a exception from our real world and that now laws or rules have to be followed to using the Internet. Well, thats not true either, there are laws and rules and if you want to play with them- go ahead (but not come back to me and say "why didn't you tell me" because then it's too late).

And one thing more:

The difference in discussing this subject here than at the VS forum is that the author would be attacked rather than the subject. If you referencing to JHB then you are referencing to my statements and replies and not me personally. That's maybe the reason why a few is attempting to make such topics "over there" because it will likely turn into a world war III.

[kuusuru]

Somebody stealing your own work, that isn't legal nonsense, but somebody getting sued for, say, using the Cunard logo on their own custom non-commercial model, that's legal nonsense..

Why don't you print out on some greaseproof papers a big yellow M on a red background, wrap some homemade burgers in them, then go and hand them out in your local food court/mall/town square?  Preferrably while standing outside an establishment with a similar M on the windows... see what happens next.  You're not doing it for profit, so it should be OK, right?

It's not only about copyright holders trying to stop you making money from their property.  It's also about copyright holders not wanting their reputation damaged by association with your shoddy product (and you said it yourself earlier in the thread, "There are a lot of really low-grade things being made for that game").

Oh well... some of it is subjective... could be looked at different ways.

A statement like that is guaranteed to make the judge frown very unhappily in your direction, the complainant's brief smile, and yours put his head in his hands 

[Mad_Fred]

There's no need for anything to get out of hand if we all just behave! 

And after all, there's no use in debating the law.. the law is the law and must be obeyed. Unless you're a lawmaker, you have little to win in argueing about something illegal.

Who chooses not to, for whatever reason, chooses to risk getting in trouble. No matter how trivial, or how justified one might think one is acting. There are no exceptions, when it comes right down to it.

Fred.

[Hudizzle]

There's no need for anything to get out of hand if we all just behave! 

And after all, there's no use in debating the law.. the law is the law and must be obeyed. Unless you're a lawmaker, you have little to win in argueing about something illegal.

Who chooses not to, for whatever reason, chooses to risk getting in trouble. No matter how trivial, or how justified one might think one is acting. There are no exceptions, when it comes right down to it.

Fred.

Well, people should be able to criticize and debate whatever they want, whoever they are, whether it be a law, rule, belief, system, custom, etc.
Debating law itself isn't illegal. Well maybe in some countries. But sometimes you have to look at the logic behind some laws, and question it.... I mean sure, you have to follow it.. at least until it gets changed... and who gets the lawmaker to change the law? The people who aren't lawmakers. The ones who point out the flaws in the laws, and want them to change, hopefully for the better. Sometimes the lawmaker acts on his/her own, too though. But, I suppose a Ship Sim forum is hardly the place to do it.
Alright. Now I'm done.