Basic navigation rules

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[Wolfram_Jenrich]

Dear Admins,
I do appreciate all the stuff you did but :-) I do miss some basic rules.
I'll try some examples.
right before left
incoming before outgoing
Ferrys before motor-cruiser
driving only between the marks

etc.

Do you think it is possible to get those basics implemented?

I'llo love to play the next release
Wolfram

[llamalord]

As you might have not expected this issue has come up many times before.  So normally this topic would have been closed by one of the moderators, but this topic seems different to me.  Most of these kinds of topics go like so: "Why don't ships obey the rules" So maybe this topic will get taken seriosly.

[saltydog]

I wish the AI ships would follow some rules..

[Capt. Le Velle]

AI ships need to go to school to get more intelligent

[mvsmith]

An attempt was made in recent updates to make AI obey COLREGS in crossing situations, with mixed results. “Stand on” AI vessels would stop, as well as the “Give way” vessels.
The added computational burden in the AI logic led to reduced frame rates and greater possibility of QV aborts in missions with excessive—or badly constructed—AI.

The problem of AI ships straying outside of marked channels is simply a matter of poor mission construction. That same problem with player vessels can be solved by making the completion of certain EX waypoints optional as a requirement for mission completion. Specifically: The damage_engine trigger could be used to punish straying outside of marked channels.
Marty

[mvsmith]

AI ships need to go to school to get more intelligent

The same could be said for many forum members.

[Capt. Le Velle]

so very true

[saltydog]

I was just kidding a bit how even the smallest AI boat is a potential torpedo
But I agree, if there is more than one person in multiplayer (.), the rules should be clear..

[Wolfram_Jenrich]

All,
thanks for your comments, I'm pretty sure the developers will try their best.

PS: I just tried to moor a Container, is there a rule of which rope goes first?

Wolfram

[llamalord]

For small ships the rule is what ever you need to do.

For my boat,

Coming in:  I start coming in with the dock to my left and the bow pointed to the dock at 20^o and through the bow line and then I use that as a spring line to pull the stern in.

Going out: I cast off the stern line push off and then I drive forward to loosen the bowline.  Then half-reverse to exit the docking area.

Probobly not too helpful for a container ship.

[Wolfram_Jenrich]

Hi llamalord,

thought simmilar way but as soon as I connect the aft-line the spring does not help anymore.
Container just turns by its middle axis and the bug is turned out of the mark.
I even tried for-spring, for-line, and a second spring, no way
:-(

[Capt. Le Velle]

on me boat i just come in at a 45 degree angle when the bow gets close to the dock somebody hops of the bow onto the dock ties the rope off and keeps the boat off the dock.  For the stern i just turn all the way right and throttle up a little and the stern comes in even with the bow

[mvsmith]

Hi Wolf,
It depends, of course, in how you have to approach the dock—what other ships might be moored close by. If possible, one usually tries to kick the stern in first, because you can then use the bow thruster to get the bow in. On a clear approach, you can slide in diagonally with hard rudder and bow thruster.

Specifically, in missions: The waypoint notes often tell you which end to moor first. In that case it is nice if you also know from which direction to approach!
Lines are sometimes like rubber bands, and won’t hold the stern as the bow thruster tends to rotate the ship. So far as mission completion is concerned, once the stern waypoint completes, you don’t need to keep the stern in — you can even let go. Remember that to complete a mooring waypoint you must tie up to the specific bollard on which the waypoint is built. This is usually the one in the center of the circle, but sometimes the circle is offset. The type 7 — a line of bollards — is an exception; any one will do.
Marty

[TerryRussell]

In all of the missions I've created, I have done my best to make the AI vessels obey general shipping rules (e.g. on the Starboard side of channels etc).

But, there are many logistical reasons why this sometimes gets sacrificed.

Consider that if the Creator lays down two AI tracks. The vessles in them look like a procession (ducks lined up), not at all like "real" shipping. So the Creator makes one AI track take a port-side channel and the other goes straight ahead. He may make them tack around a bit as well.

But now, the vessels are only going in one direction, which still looks too simplistic. So, the Creator lays two more tracks, one each alongside of the existing tracks, but in the opposite direction.

Instant problem. The new AI tracks must cross over the existing ones if the rule of "starboard side" is to be followed. But that causes PCs to crash and missions to fail and worlds to collide.

So, the Creator is forced to make the two pairs of AIs not cross, with the result that some traffic is now on the wrong side and someone who is ignorant of these limitations will complain (see above).

And that is just with two sets of bi-directional tracks. Even then, it is a pretty unconvincing set of scenery.

Many of us do our best by implementing "small vessel channels" e.g. Portsmouth & Southampton. We place static vessels facing in the appropriate direction to give th eillusion of correctness, but the game has limitations.

PS I presume by "driving between the marks" you mean in the buoyed channels? That's not what they're there for. It is perfectly acceptable for vessels to go either side, provided they have the appropriate draft. For example, going up Southampton water, the buoys are for the guidance of very large vessels. In any case, with a 15 foot+ tidal range, it can be plenty deep enough for large vessels to go either side at the appropriate state of the tides.

Ferries don't always have priority. In many harbours there is an independent small ships channel, so motor boats (to use your description) and Ferries don't interact.

[Person264]

When you say small vessel channels does that include the southampton ferries? Cos when I was on a ship a while ago the Red Jets (make lots of smoke when moving off) and the red eagles were going out of the markers to get past. Then we had to stop for a while cos the Queen Victoria hit the side (an azipod failed) but that's off the subject sorry 

[Wolfram_Jenrich]

Terry,

thanks a lot for the insider bit.
Indeed I meant the  buoyes and your explination is OK with me.
As the other requests seam to be challanging, what about geting the daylight from the computers watch (as a default) ... and the weather conditions may be ;-)

[TerryRussell]

When you say small vessel channels does that include the southampton ferries? Cos when I was on a ship a while ago the Red Jets (make lots of smoke when moving off) and the red eagles were going out of the markers to get past. Then we had to stop for a while cos the Queen Victoria hit the side (an azipod failed) but that's off the subject sorry 

In Southampton Waters, smaller vessels should stay outside of the buoyed channel (but that's not an absolute law. Circumstances may dictate otherwise). I quit eoften go up there, but I'm usually on the Hamble side of the channel. But not if I'm coming in from the West. I'll keep close in at Calshott and then move across when I get nearer to Hythe.

[TerryRussell]

As the other requests seam to be challanging, what about geting the daylight from the computers watch (as a default) ... and the weather conditions may be ;-)

Sorry, not sure what you mean here. Please give me some more details and I'll see what I can do.

Have you played any of my missions yet? There are quite a few in the downladable in-game menu, and many many more on the Creators Forum.

[Wolfram_Jenrich]

Hi Terry,
If you do look onto my profile you will see that I'm playing quite oft3en.
Well what I meant by "daylight..." is it possible to adapt the clock of the simulator to the watch of the PC. e.g. on Wednesday 03.September 2008 at 20:00 it was already dark and all of the missions have sunshine  or rain but it is daylight.
Second, the weathe at that time on the north sea was reining and windy, I would have expected those conditions by default if I'm entering an online-mission in Hamburg.

Hope it is more clear now.

Thanks for your answer in advance

Wolfram

[mvsmith]

Hi Wolf,

In missions, the time and date is set for each environment by the creator, and is independent of the computer time. That this should be so is pretty obvious when you consider that the creator intends that a mission take place at, say, dusk regardless of the time of day when it is run.
Time does pass during a mission; the sun moves through the sky and sets, the stars come out. Nav lights on vessels come on, etc. This is driven by the computer clock, but the offset from local time is fixed in the mission.
In Titanic 2 Replica… for instance, there are five environments; each is run during a different watch in 2012.
Terry can explain certain anomalies to consider when setting times in missions.
Regards,
Marty

[TerryRussell]

Yes, there is an anomoly.

If I as a Mission Creator set the starting time to say midday, but I write the mission now - when my PC is on daylight saving time (British Summer Time), when you run it, you will see the time start at 11 am. That is the time in GMT (Greenwich Mean Time).

[Wolfram_Jenrich]

Marty and Terry,

Missions where clear to me; I thought about online playing with no mission but environment only.

Even so I enjoi the time I'm able to play after a long day of work.

Wolfram