New Vessel in the game,classic sailvessel.What do you think?

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[mvsmith]

That question was asked and answered on page 1:
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,18315.msg246817.html#msg246817 (http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,18315.msg246817.html#msg246817)

[Wave Music]

May i also ask about the speed of the Flying Cloud? When i study her details, it said that her speed is 22 knots (maximum), but when i play her in the game she was traveling at a approximately 15 knots. Am i missing something about this vessel?

You may want to compare also other info of the model (L = 22 m, B = 6 m, D = 1 m) to the real ship (L = 71.6 m, B = 12.4 m, D = 6.5 m) ?

Of course, you can always ask for your money back.   Wait, but it was a free present, so?  

[Wave Music]

Please read the following important information before continuing.


1) A NEW PLAYABLE VESSEL - FLYING CLOUD

The classic ship, Flying Cloud, has been restored for charter as a pleasure vessel.

No longer sailing, this vessel is equipped with a single inboard diesel engine and appropriate controls.

Specifications:

Gross tonnage: 2,500 Tonnes
Top speed 15kts
Draft: 2.5 metres
Type: Restored classic sailing ship (motorised only)

Made playable by Terry Russell
Creators Forum: www.iso9000.co.uk/cgi-bin/creators/entry.pl

NOTE: Due to the limitations of the implementation of the 3D model,
There are a few minor issues:

 - no wash/splashes
 - no walkthrough mode
 

[mvsmith]

Why can't the model be changed?
Regards,
Adam

Because the work is done by volunteer users, not the developers. They do not have access to the original 3D model. They have to work with the static model as it exists in the game. Ships that were originally in the game only as static ships with no player counterpart are of lower detail for performance reasons.

It is puzzling to me why this concept is so hard to understand, especially by those who pretend to be modelers.

Try this exercise:
Start the Mission Editor.
Place a static ship.
Add some detail to the ship.
Incorporate it into a mission.
Post the result for us to admire.

[Captain Spencer]

Marty,

There is no need to be like that 

 You are failing to understand what I am trying to say to you. I DO understand what is involved by producing a model, but I was unaware that the models were only edited by people who do not have access to the models source files ect. I just think that VSTEP should not have agreed to release the packs with unfinished player vessels.

Oh and for the record, I do create 3D models, and I DO NOT 'pretend' to be a modeller. So please don't accuse me of pretending.

Regards,
Adam

[mvsmith]

Adam,
I don’t see how you could have been unaware that the pack crew cannot edit the models. It was mentioned frequently here and elsewhere. In fact it was mentioned in the post directly above your question that they had to work with the static ship as it existed in the game.
Marty

[hhdawrs]

It seems that VSTEP just cannot win - damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Like as the others have said, the Super Packs are free and you do not have to download them. If you see something you don't like on TV, you just either change channels or switch it off. It's as simple as that.

I would like to show my support for all who were involved in the Super Pack, and I really appreciate their efforts, their free time and enthusiasm to make the Super Packs possible. For us to enjoy while we wait for SSE to come out. So please give them credit.

That's me off the soapbox!!!

Oops..blank post; sorry.

But if VS cannot do what users/creators/buyers want, doesn't it doom itself?  Why create and then ask for opinions when you get so much flack for things you have no control over?

If you create for the love of creating, good for you.  If you ask for opinions, you will get them.  If you build and submit things made with dull tools for approval often enough and those things do not meet expected standards, people will stop visiting.

If new VS vessels are as poorly received as this one, the email announcements should not give the eye-candy impression that they are realistic or complete.

As for turning off the TV comparison, that is why shows disappear.

[Esprit350]

Just thought I'd stick my two-penneth in!

I think the packs are good entertainment while we wait for SSE.  Thanks to those who are making them. 

There are some "speelling mistooks"   but they are not all developed by people whose mother tongue is english.
 
I did find that when I took Flying Cloud into Padstow in the pack mission, it said turn to port after lifting the anchor and the way to Padstow and the next WP was in fact to starboard!  I had arrived at anchor in the right direction and had not turned around!  Perhaps someone meant to say "to head towards the port (Padstow)" rather than turn to port?? .....
But ...whatever as the kids of today say.... the packs still provide more missions to keep us busy until SSE arrives - I can't wait for it myself.

It's the vessels and missions in SSE as provided at the point of purchase that have to be good, accurate and well tested, so let the people who do this, get it right.  There were a few issues with the original included missions on SS06 & 08 that had to have updates or just did not work.  I know because I got slated by people for daring to mention that the s/w, as sold, should work and it didn't all work as it should!!!!  People thought I was talking about missions added later by users.....anyway... come on SSE, the date keeps going backwards, I hope this is because of extensive testing.

Perhaps it is good that it is called SSE not SS2010 as it may arrive nearer 2011. (JOKE)   

[hhdawrs]

Hi, Esprit350.

Your points are well-taken.  I now understand that these creations are time-fillers until the biggies are ready.

I still suggest that an occasional meaningful word of progress from the gurus is very important.  The "I'm sure they are working on something" mantras start to sound like cries of desperation after awhile.

Thanks for your insight.

[mvsmith]

Oops..blank post; sorry.

But if VS cannot do what users/creators/buyers want, doesn't it doom itself?  Why create and then ask for opinions when you get so much flack for things you have no control over?

If you create for the love of creating, good for you.  If you ask for opinions, you will get them.  If you build and submit things made with dull tools for approval often enough and those things do not meet expected standards, people will stop visiting.

If new VS vessels are as poorly received as this one, the email announcements should not give the eye-candy impression that they are realistic or complete.

As for turning off the TV comparison, that is why shows disappear.

First of all, it is VSTEP, not VS. On this forum it does make a big difference.

It was a mistake to call the ships “new”, which none of them was. Most were actual player ships with enhancements. For the most part, those were well done although you can’t please everybody when it comes to the size of controls, or their personal opinions on how the dynamics should be.

Attempting to make player ships out of static ships was partly in response to requests from users, and was fraught with potential problems. Perhaps the biggest problem was the lack of understanding by the complainers as to what was actually being done and by whom.

[hhdawrs]

First of all, it is VSTEP, not VS. On this forum it does make a big difference.

It was a mistake to call the ships “new”, which none of them was. Most were actual player ships with enhancements. For the most part, those were well done although you can’t please everybody when it comes to the size of controls, or their personal opinions on how the dynamics should be.

Attempting to make player ships out of static ships was partly in response to requests from users, and was fraught with potential problems. Perhaps the biggest problem was the lack of understanding by the complainers as to what was actually being done and by whom.

OK.  VSTEP it is.  Enlighten me on the "big difference".

I certainly have large understanding gaps.  Your help and that of others is wanted. 

"Complainers" sounds harsh if it applies to the responses in this thread.  After all, "What do you think" seems to invite all kinds of comments.

Thank you,

[mvsmith]

On this forum VS means Virtual Sailor.

[hhdawrs]

Thanks.  I don't know why I shortened it to begin with.

<self, I gotta lotta catching up>

[Third Mate]

Hey Third Mate, i remember that ship. I see her in the Port of Spain Harbor most of the times. She was a former windjammer cruise sailing vessel I believe. I didn't even know that they was going to put her in a Trinidad Museum but the museum refuse to accept her. Now they're trying to give the vessel back to British Virgin Islands. 

Hope they will accept it, she looks like a great tourist attraction noways, very different from 200 years ago.That old rust bucket has some solid history built in it. Yesterday I spent around a total of 5 hours sailing her and I'm starting to feel the hard work and tough times she's been through.

[JHB]

Oops..blank post; sorry.

But if VS cannot do what users/creators/buyers want, doesn't it doom itself?  Why create and then ask for opinions when you get so much flack for things you have no control over?

If you create for the love of creating, good for you.  If you ask for opinions, you will get them.  If you build and submit things made with dull tools for approval often enough and those things do not meet expected standards, people will stop visiting.

If new VS vessels are as poorly received as this one, the email announcements should not give the eye-candy impression that they are realistic or complete.

As for turning off the TV comparison, that is why shows disappear.

Well, then switch channel or turn of your TV, because in this board there will always be opinions, no matter how and when and what about. And that's what VSTEP is listening to (according to Frank Dolmans interview with GameReactor about SS Extremes).

There are other game developers out there of the big ones that doesn't care to interact or listen to their audience at all. So we should be very glad that VSTEP care to listen.

And if people stop playing the game, then that's just a serious sign that the game need more stuff that caught the interest of the players and the audience watching YouTube-movies, game reviews, screenshots and all this stuff from this game. Feedback is a essential process of reviewing a product until the customer gets satisfied, and still want to buy it.  

And when it comes to boats and ships in a ship simulator, I'm afraid that many is not question themselves what do you want to use the boat for?

a) just sail around
b) handle cargo
c) doing advanced navigation
d) towing operations
e) racing
f) practice rescue missions
g) maintenance and support a oil platform
h) handle passengers and cars (transportation between point A and B)

If this is supposed to be a simulator (or what it is already using in its brand name), then I think that there is a waste to add hundreds of boats and ships into this game, until it looks like a ships of the world simulator rather than a simulator purely supporting navigation, cargo handling, interactive environments, single player missions, multi player missions, engine handling, missions on-board a ship and similar stuff.

Comparing to Virtual Sailor, these sims are in the same boat right now (until SS Extremes reveal new features). They both got various ships and boats, but there is a lack of opportunities to do something with the watercrafts than just sail it around, with a few buttons and some controls (generalizing). I think than none of these sims caught the attention of hardcore simmers that probably want to more than just play a mission where you sail from waypoint A to waypoint G rescue a couple of people caught in the water. Anyway, I'm not saying that missions is a bad thing, that they are good for now and will become better in the future.

Yeah it's some sort of great effort to add new vessels to this game, but I don't think they caught the attention from serious simmers (those of us that want something more than just another vessel to sail around).

All ships and boats got their own shapes and colors and is made for some specific operations which this game is not yet simulates, so maybe that's what SS Extremes is all about (because Extremes is a strong word).

A boat is just not a boat...you will use it for something.

Regards, a hardcore simmer...

[ARTSHIP (†2010)]

Hallo Espirit

Just reading yr comment of the mission of the Flying Cloud into Padstow.


/////////////////
There are some "speelling mistooks"  but they are not all developed by people whose mother tongue is english.
  
I did find that when I took Flying Cloud into Padstow in the pack mission, it said turn to port after lifting the anchor and the way to Padstow and the next WP was in fact to starboard!  I had arrived at anchor in the right direction and had not turned around!  Perhaps someone meant to say "to head towards the port (Padstow)" rather than turn to port?? .....
/////////////

There is no misspelling in my mission. If you anchor correctly at the anchor point just off the shallow edge, you have to turn to port after having picked up the anchor, order to reach the entrance of the deep waterway into the Padstow estuary. Then of course you have to turn to starbord into the deep waterway.
You can be sure, that I know what port/starbord means, after having sailed 17 years, last 11 years as mate/master on the bridge of various sized cargo/container ships and tankers.

Bgds
ARTSHIP/Horst

[steveboston]

To Sadsid and MVSmith - whilst I accept some of the points on this thread I for one am grateful for all the work you guys have done on the various extra missions and updated vessels. As a flightsim developer I know just how much work goes into even something 'simple'. Most of my aircraft collection is amazingly detailed and accurate but here and there I have kept the odd good ol' thang from bygone days because it has never been bettered - no matter that it is a bit rougher looking close up etc.

It is nice to sail something new even if it is actually 'engineing' instead of sailing. We all (should) know that the game dynamics won't support sail power so, given that it is a sim and is all pretend we can surely be content to imagine a bit more and make do. Early flightsims needed a lot of imagination from the user but I still liked them until something better came along.
 
I am particularly grateful for the player vessel updates and I hope there will be one for the Portferrio Angel soon. I sailed it again after a long absence with a Flying Cloud Custom Mission and I had forgotten its wierd low speed handling (seems to have a ghostly second engine but only one throttle) so please keep 'em coming.

[Esprit350]

Hi ARTSHIP,
The spelling mistakes were in all different missions, not necessarily the one mentioned.

I understand what you mean about turning to port to get to to the deep water channel, however I did not do this, there obviously was just enough water to sneak over the edge of the bar.  I can see where you are coming from though   

Cheers,
Paul.

[orkneysteve]

I would just like to say what I think about this particular free addon pack; (Flying Cloud)

I think that altering already existing vessels on shipsim is totally pointless and is beginning to make shipsim look like a cheap simulation like VS.  As far as I am concerned the existing shipsim vessels are good and very realistic;

I don't understand why someone can create these, with no offense intended, very crude addons for a highly respected simulator program when really the time used would be better spent working on NEW ships, with wake, walk-round etc etc.

The Flying Cloud does not disturb the water in any way whatsoever, additionally she is a sailing ship - why make a model of a sailing vessel if you cannot use the sails;

that's a bit like going into a supermarket with a huge shopping trolley trolley and buying a single can of beans!

[Matthew Brown]

Firstly I know that its not easy to make the add on ships at all, they are based on AI or static ships like you all know but what the very clever people making the ships have to do is put in all the tiny detail of dynamics and things which can prove tricky, testing many times to get it realistic. But they try at every possiblity to add things llike walkthroughs and wake if they can but sometimes its just not possible relying on a basically empty butter box from vstep.

But congratulations are in hand as they spend much of their free time creating something for us all to enjoy here  at Ship Simulator, something that many of other people if they tried would not be able to handle.

And pointless??? NO way I have always looked at AI vessels and thought... What if?  I would love to sail that little yacht into little places like padstow where many a ship can not go and explore something new. And what if they dont have much detail, its the effort thats gone into it I appraise.

So a big well done on the add-on ships, and everyones lucky there are people nice enough to build new ships for us to enjoy. And if you dont enjoy the add-ons then ask yourself is your reason for not liking them really that positive? Think about what it takes to make them and all the time.

Well done Terry and the other creators keep going like this and thankyou for letting us explore a new world! 

Kind Regards

Matthew Brown 

[hhdawrs]

Well, then switch channel or turn of your TV, because in this board there will always be opinions, no matter how and when and what about. And that's what VSTEP is listening to (according to Frank Dolmans interview with GameReactor about SS Extremes).....

Regards, a hardcore simmer...

I can't tell if I offended you?  Hopefully the tone as I took it was due to our different locations on the map.  Just in case, I apologize.

FWIW, I like your logic and value your opinions.techie talk.

[Third Mate]

Great thing to try with Flying cloud:

Choose the environment: Atlantic ocean, set the waves no higher that 2m, no wind, full rain, full thunder,and 80% fog, I gotta  tell ya, it is the best experience ever

[jibemorel]

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on ! (at least i hope so)